I was approached by a BWM rider.....

sail2xxs

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offcamber said:
There is a BMW club in MA I was thinking of joining. I been to a couple of their events. Nice group of guys, on the older side. They don't care what you ride....They do a few camp outs a year. Relaxed group which I like. My only fear is the attempts to convert you to the church of Bavaria....
I'm still a member of the local BMW club in the DC area. They don't care what you ride either, and are a pleasant, relaxed group of folks. Rather than having attempts to be converted (my BMW ownership was limited to a 2009 800GS, which was sufficient to make me steer clear of the brand for the remainder of my life) I tend to get more questions and comparisons with respect to reliability and maintenance costs than anything else. Without exception, anyone who I've had that conversation with is impressed with the S10. Two people are seriously considering them after being stranded while on vacation trips.

Chris
 

Mikeybikey57

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No……whatever you do don't be tempted to join up, no matter how inviting they appear. Riding with them is one thing. Spending lots of time with them will soon have you doubting your own judgement. My most recent experiences whilst in their massed company will bear me out I think.

I rode out to our nearest BMW outlet up in sunny South Yorkshire with my mate Andy early last week. He was returning the courtesy bike he'd been using, whilst his new R1200RT was in for it's first service. Having nothing more pressing to do, I tagged along for the ride out. Despite it being mid-week, the place was well populated with people, most of whom were dressed in branded BMW attire. There were noticeable looks of distain from some of these folk, when I pulled up on my S10 so I made a point of parking it right in amongst them to see what would occur. Without exception, they all walked away from me and my bike and not one of them responded to my greetings, or acknowledged my existence throughout the whole time we were there.

Despite this, the Service manager gave Andy and I a warm welcome and offered us a coffee while we waited for them to bring Andy's bike out to him. Andy introduced me to this bloke and then proceeded to make an apology on my behalf , as I was not yet 'converted to the fold'. After asking me what bike I was riding, the Service Manager offered his commiserations and condescendingly said he'd be happy to "help me with my problem", by letting me take their W.C. GS demonstrator out for a spin. I'll admit that I was tempted, as the gleaming and purposeful beast did make a serious impression on me . However, after a few seconds, my innate common sense prevailed and I decided to decline his generous offer. He clearly wasn't happy at that and he seemed most offended by my refusal. He them smirked to himself and……get this, suggested that I was in denial and afraid to find out what i'd been missing out on, after riding one of the finest motorcycles in the world! Now, I've worked in Mental Healthcare for over three decades and I have an unusually thick skin as a consequence. However, this pillock made my blood boil, so………... I smiled and calmly admitted that, yes, I was afraid but perhaps not of what he'd implied.

I firstly told him that I was afraid of never having any disposable income again, given that I would need to spend it all on keeping my "best bike in the world" serviced.

I then added that I was also afraid that my "best bike in the world" might repeatedly break down, as my friend Andy's previous airhead "best bike in the world" had done.

I also told him that I was afraid of having to risk repeatedly taking my "best bike in the world" back to his workshop, for warranty and recall work and then risk paying out enormous sums of money for further repairs, once the warranty had expired.

I then confessed that my biggest fear was, that if I did own the "best bike in the world", I would eventually turn into someone who was as arrogant and narrow minded an arsehole as he was!


He did manage to get the message, as he turned on his heels and walked back into his office, without saying another word to anyone. Andy suggested I was a bit harsh on him but just about managed to see my point by the time we got home. So……...I know that they're not all of the same mentality, over here or in the USA. However, many do appear to be, which is enough to suggest that it may be wise to stay away from big crowds of them and stick to single figure interactions, at least until your immune system has gotten the measure of them.
 

BravoBravo

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Mikeybikey57 said:
No……whatever you do don't be tempted to join up, no matter how inviting they appear. Riding with them is one thing. Spending lots of time with them will soon have you doubting your own judgement. My most recent experiences whilst in their massed company will bear me out I think.

I rode out to our nearest BMW outlet up in sunny South Yorkshire with my mate Andy early last week. He was returning the courtesy bike he'd been using, whilst his new R1200RT was in for it's first service. Having nothing more pressing to do, I tagged along for the ride out. Despite it being mid-week, the place was well populated with people, most of whom were dressed in branded BMW attire. There were noticeable looks of distain from some of these folk, when I pulled up on my S10 so I made a point of parking it right in amongst them to see what would occur. Without exception, they all walked away from me and my bike and not one of them responded to my greetings, or acknowledged my existence throughout the whole time we were there.

Despite this, the Service manager gave Andy and I a warm welcome and offered us a coffee while we waited for them to bring Andy's bike out to him. Andy introduced me to this bloke and then proceeded to make an apology on my behalf , as I was not yet 'converted to the fold'. After asking me what bike I was riding, the Service Manager offered his commiserations and condescendingly said he'd be happy to "help me with my problem", by letting me take their W.C. GS demonstrator out for a spin. I'll admit that I was tempted, as the gleaming and purposeful beast did make a serious impression on me . However, after a few seconds, my innate common sense prevailed and I decided to decline his generous offer. He clearly wasn't happy at that and he seemed most offended by my refusal. He them smirked to himself and……get this, suggested that I was in denial and afraid to find out what i'd been missing out on, after riding one of the finest motorcycles in the world! Now, I've worked in Mental Healthcare for over three decades and I have an unusually thick skin as a consequence. However, this pillock made my blood boil, so………... I smiled and calmly admitted that, yes, I was afraid but perhaps not of what he'd implied.

I firstly told him that I was afraid of never having any disposable income again, given that I would need to spend it all on keeping my "best bike in the world" serviced.

I then added that I was also afraid that my "best bike in the world" might repeatedly break down, as my friend Andy's previous airhead "best bike in the world" had done.

I also told him that I was afraid of having to risk repeatedly taking my "best bike in the world" back to his workshop, for warranty and recall work and then risk paying out enormous sums of money for further repairs, once the warranty had expired.

I then confessed that my biggest fear was, that if I did own the "best bike in the world", I would eventually turn into someone who was as arrogant and narrow minded an arsehole as he was!


He did manage to get the message, as he turned on his heels and walked back into his office, without saying another word to anyone. Andy suggested I was a bit harsh on him but just about managed to see my point by the time we got home. So……...I know that they're not all of the same mentality, over here or in the USA. However, many do appear to be, which is enough to suggest that it may be wise to stay away from big crowds of them and stick to single figure interactions, at least until your immune system has gotten the measure of them.
Great write-up, Mikey! To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men," they can't handle the truth! The service manager couldn't, anyway. ::025::

-Bruce
 

Salmon Sam

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Funny. You should have offered a reciprocal spin to the Service Manager on the ST! Told him that you wanted him to experience a perfect on-road off-road hybrid. ::022::
 

Dallara

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~


Say what you will... Try to spin it that there is Super Tenere "kool-aid" and the like... Doesn't matter.

There definitely is close to a cult when it comes to the vast majority BMW owners and shops. After all, the term "drinking the kool-aid" was literally coined to describe BMW ownership.

Allow me to relate my own story of how pervasive that BMW mindset can be if left unchecked.

Years ago, when I owned a BMW "Oilhead" 1150 I got hooked up with a large group of BMW riders, almost by accident. Now I had always been an equal-opportunity motorcycle brand owner, having owned American, Austrian, British, Czechoslovakian, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Swedish, etc. marques over the years, enjoying most of them immensely, often despite their quirks... Yet I was totally unprepared for what I encountered from this group of Beemer fanatics. This was actually my second BMW, but I had somehow managed to totally avoid any of the devout Roundel Rangers during the ownership of my "Airhead" years before.

Anyway, when I got the "Oilhead" there was no dealer within 180+ miles of me, but that wasn't a problem because I have always done all my own motorcycle wrenching. Hence, I began frequenting some Beemer forums, got some manuals, and quickly learned my way around the 1150's architecture. So much so that a number of BMW owners began seeking me out to work on their bikes or answer their questions about why the bikes did this or that. Slowly I also began getting questions about why the bikes broke so much, why parts cost so much, and why many of the dealers were such a**holes. I didn't know the answers to those questions, and at first I was very upbeat, trying to tell them that all mechanical devices can have problems, stuff made by man can't be perfect, etc., etc., and that if a man can build it, a man can fix it. But as time went on I began to notice there were sure a lot more questions, a lot more problems, and a lot more frustration among these owners than other brands I had owned or worked on... But at the same time they were convinced they most certainly were riding the "best bike in the world" and wouldn't even consider anything else.

I had also never encountered a group who were as arrogant and condescending when it came to describing other brands... Often times they would ask where I learned to work on motorcycles, and I would mention that I cut my teeth working on British bikes, then working in Jap bike shops for years. Literally any time this was mentioned I would hear something like "Well, at least now you've seen the light and got a good motorcycle", etc., etc. Sometimes it was tongue-in-cheek, but always with a cutting edge to it where you knew they were serious. Most times I let it slide, but sometimes I would toss back something like "I never saw idiotic engineering like this when I worked on Honda's..." or "Even the British could be more logical than BMW..." These kind of come-backs would usually get me a slack-jawed look of amazement and some muttering about how there was no way the Japanese or British could be better than the Germans. I always found it funny how these people could make derogatory comments about my motorcycle wrenching background while I was helping them with their busted BMW.

But the real demonstration of their BMW fanaticism was yet to come...

Much like I did with the recent Texas Hill Country ride here, I organized first a Texas Big Bend ride, and later a Texas Hill Country ride for these folks, as well as others.

Now please make important note here - these rides were *NEVER* promoted or denoted as "BMW Rides". Far from it. I invited any and all brand riders, and from all over the country. The first ride was pretty small, with only about 15 riders. IIRC, 5 of the bikes that showed up were BMW's (including mine), and we actually met 2 other Beemer riders there in Alpine that had nothing to do with our ride. They joined right in with our group, and one of them became a very good friend, who unfortunately recently passed away. But there were other brands there, too. A couple of Harley's, a Triumph, a couple of Honda's, a Yamaha, an Aprilia, etc., etc. this ride was so well received it was decided to try to have another one the next year, and we did, with over twice as many in attendance. More importantly, the second one was even more balanced and diverse when it came to brands.

That second year we added a Hill Country ride to the mix, too. Again, I did all the organization and administration, and the invite list was just as diverse and non-brand specific as the Big Bend rides. More and more riders came from all corners of the country, too. It would also be the last event I had a BMW at. I actually rode my new Yamaha FJR1300 at this event, but I brought along my BMW R1150R to this ride as a spare for anybody that might need it. There were BMW's in attendance, but their percentage of the total of bikes was dropping. That said, it didn't stop the BMW contingent from trying to monopolize the proceedings, as well as try to segregate the group, which drove me nuts. Even more disconcerting was the fact the only people complaining at these rides were devout BMW owners (including one who used to be a BMW dealer). They would complain about the most trivial and mundane stuff, and more and more they monopolized my time dealing with their "issues".

But then things started getting really weird... with like at each of the next Big Bend and Hill Country rides the BMW contingent trying to literally "take over" the organization of the event, first finagling a move from our former base hotel in Alpine to a different one, despite the fact the management at the original hotel treating us like family. It just wasn't "nice" enough for the Beemer riders so I consented to a move to newer hotel property. The rates were higher, and it was newer, but we were never treated as well as at the previous hotel. At Hill Country event the BMW riders put together many of their own activities, not even bothering to tell anyone else about those sideshows, preferring to keep them "BMW Only" affairs. They also started something that seemed innocuous at the time, but grew into something really insidious... They started referring to the ride as a "BMW Hill Country Event", first in correspondence, but then when it was discussed in person with anyone who asked, like with restaurant owners, etc. that inquired as to what the group was.

Mind you, these were rides I organized, arranged, and administered, with not one nano-whit of help from any of these BMW folks. I made the posts on the forums, I made the hotel arrangements, the arrangements with parks and museums, laid out road routes, etc., etc. As the rides grew I even arranged for different prizes for folks who had traveled the farthest, were voted as having the trickest bike, etc. In other words, there was no "BMW Ride" about any of them. They were intended to be group rides for anybody and any brand. Despite that, the more the rides became more diverse and less brand-centric the more the BMW Squad wanted to make them BMW-Only rides.

At the next Big Bend ride it looked like we were going to have about 70 to 100 riders, and I was bringing a large, enclosed trailer (and would be riding my Ducati Hypermotard, and friends in my truck whose bikes in my trailer were a Triumph, a Kawasaki, and a Honda)... One, to bring a large selection of repair necessities (full tool assortment, air compressor, tire repair and changing capability, spare parts, etc.) for any brand, but two, to also act as a "bar" in the parking lot for after ride hours festivities. I also brought in case we needed a crash retrieval vehicle (as we had the year before). In addition to this, a good friend had arranged to bring his motorhome and BBQ trailer to park in the parking lot, both to aid in the party atmosphere. He was also an Aprilia dealer, and as a favor had agreed to bring along a bunch of Aprilia demo bikes as well as four-wheel ATV's for rides in designated areas of the park. he was doing this all free of charge, and we had cleared it all with the hotel, who seemed to be glad to have the motorcycle group moved out into the parking lot and out of the lobby area in the evenings.

Anyway, the Aprilia contingent was arriving early on Thursday, and I would be arriving Thursday afternoon with a group... But interestingly enough, *ONE* particular BMW rider got there on Wednesday afternoon, and thanks to his ministrations the first thing my friend providing the free Aprilia's saw, and that I saw when I drove up, with the hotel marquis sign with the message:

"Welcome BMW Event Big Bend Riders"

Needless to say, the Aprilia dealer was a bit surprised, and I was thoroughly pissed off. I simply couldn't believe it, and if nothing else, it was rude to do to the Aprilia folks. Understand, everyone knew the Aprilia guys were coming, so it wasn't a misunderstanding or anything. Nope, that particular BMW rider, and later I found out a few of his BMW buddies, had decided they wanted the event branded as a "BMW Event". Within minutes of my arrival I had the problem corrected, and had the sign changed to say something more appropriate... And the hotel staff were happy to tell me who instructed them to place the BMW message on the sign. When I confronted the BMW guy in question he feigned ignorance, saying he never told them to say anything about BMW, but later some of his cohorts told me that they had planned for some time to have the event become more BMW-centric, and the sign was the first step.

That was the beginning of the end of my involvement in the event... Much of that event became segregated, with the Beemer contingent even parking in a separate area of the parking lot and not joining in with many of the rides and festivities, though all of them took advantage of riding literally every single Aprilia demo they could! ::025::

I never organized another one of those events... A couple of the BMW guys tried to keep the events going, but slowly they shrank, finally dying away from lack of anyone doing the work to organize them and lack of attendance.

And all because the "Roundel Rangers" had to try and make them each a BMW-centric, kool-aid drinking, Bavarian-bonding-only show. :(

Funny, too... How at all these events I had organized, from the very first one, there were riders of many different brands, including other "lifestyle" brands like Ducati and Harley, and not once did any other brand-group try to take over the events. In fact, they all seemed to enjoy the diversity of machines and riders. It was only the BMW riders that wanted things all their way, and for the events to be their own. They were the only ones that ever bad-mouthed other brands, or tried to segregate the group. They were also the only ones who ever complained about anything.

Dallara




~
 

Koinz

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No kidding. I don't blame you for being Bitter with a bunch of dicks like that. I see that mentality in the older BMW guys, If they say shit to me, I throw it right back at them. Pompous Asses.
I loved riding through a BMW Rally on my Vtrom and seeing old codger's staring like I shouldn't be there. Haven't been to a BMW rally in a few years. I wonder how many ST's show up there now :D
 

echo_four_romeo

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Koinz said:
No kidding. I don't blame you for being Bitter with a bunch of dicks like that. I see that mentality in the older BMW guys, If they say shit to me, I throw it right back at them. Pompous Asses.
I loved riding through a BMW Rally on my Vtrom and seeing old codger's staring like I shouldn't be there. Haven't been to a BMW rally in a few years. I wonder how many ST's show up there now :D
Let's go crash the party...I'm game anytime. I do it to the Harley guys all the time. They shunned me when I had my sportster and they do it still with the Tenere.
 

Dallara

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squarebore said:
Maybe it is the Tutonic style, but when lots of BMW riders get together they remind me of the Borg on Star Trek.

Yeah! Even some of their riding gear looks like they've been assimilated! :))

Dallara



~
 

Mikeybikey57

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Big Blu said:
Sounds to me like we have few kool aid drinking Tenere riders here... ::025:: ::025::

Paul
I wouldn't like to be perceived as a kool aid drinking anything to be honest and the recounting of my experience with this particular group of individuals was never designed to suggest a discrimination against all but Yamaha.

Indeed, prior to my owning my current S10, I hadn't actually owned a Yamaha since 1974 (RD250). In between them, I have owned 4 Honda's, 3 Suzuki's, 6 Kawasaki's, 2 Hinkley Triumph's, 1 Moto Guzzi, 1 Ducati and an assortment of Bultaco's. I also managed two fleeting affairs with a BMW R65 and a beautiful 1975 R90S, both of which ended in utter disappointment. ::010::

I have no problem when someone rides or owns a bike that is different to mine. They may believe it looks better / prettier / cooler than mine and that's okay by me, because it's a truly subjective issue. Also, as long as implying that one marque is more reliable / better built than every other marque holds up to effective scrutiny, then to my mind, there's no big issue there either. I'm also a very firm believer that everyone is entitled to their views and opinions and to express them too.

However, for some at least, BMW motorcycle ownership appears to be a bit like believing that you have an enormous todger . This is also fine. Be proud and be happy with your marketing department generated good fortune and hyped up genital generosity. But if you decide to strut around the place trying to shove it down peoples throats, don't act all surprised and offended when they begin to question the accuracy of your measurements :)
 

Big Blu

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Ramseybella said:
Go hang with them and show them what the Tenere is all about. Put an ECU Flash on and show them some Brass Balls!! 8)
Have you had a ride on GS or RT with the new LC motor? I don't think so.... ::025::

Paul
 

Old Blue

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Big Blu said:
Have you had a ride on GS or RT with the new LC motor? I don't think so.... ::025::

Paul
And this is the BMW attitude. And the attitude of a whole bunch of other people who need the approval of others to validate their choices.

I don't give a rip about what a BMW rides like. Or a KTM. Or Harley. I like what I ride and that's the only thing that matters. If I don't like it I'll try something else.

It does not matter what I think of your ride. Or at least it shouldn't. Like what you like. I'll like what I like.
 

tenerejack

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This reminds me of Apple users. They spend too much money on their equipment, claim trouble free, bullet proof service and try and convince you to do the same to reinforce and validate their own over priced iPhone purchase. "Oh, you dont have an iPhone?" No, b/c they are a POS. "well, I really love mine". I hate clubs. Most of the Beamer owners I meet are pretty nice but usually Old Men who never really exercise their side walls in the curves.
 

offcamber

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tenerejack said:
This reminds me of Apple users. They spend too much money on their equipment, claim trouble free, bullet proof service and try and convince you to do the same to reinforce and validate their own over priced iPhone purchase. "Oh, you dont have an iPhone?" No, b/c they are a POS. "well, I really love mine". I hate clubs. Most of the Beamer owners I meet are pretty nice but usually Old Men who never really exercise their side walls in the curves.

Reminds of this video, oldy but a goody. As a former Video Production guy I can relate..

http://youtu.be/7MpEaE5N8oM


How do you embed video on this forum??
 

Big Blu

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Old Blue said:
And this is the BMW attitude. And the attitude of a whole bunch of other people who need the approval of others to validate their choices.

I don't give a rip about what a BMW rides like. Or a KTM. Or Harley. I like what I ride and that's the only thing that matters. If I don't like it I'll try something else.

It does not matter what I think of your ride. Or at least it shouldn't. Like what you like. I'll like what I like.
I'm in total agreement with you, and for the record currently own an S10 and 2 BMW's. I ride what puts a smile on my face, and I've smiled on most brands.
To me it's such a waste of time to bash other brands and those that ride them. There is nothing special about being an S10 owner, or a BMW owner, or a H-D owner. I'll ride with others on any brand and attend there events because we share a common passion. ::021::

My response, that you quoted above, was aimed at the op who implied that a flashed S10 was somehow superior to a BMW. I've ridden both and say that the LC boxer motor out preforms a flashed S10 hands down, and twice on Sundays.

I read the threads of bashing and demeaning comments and wonder about the elitism attitude here, as S10 owners bash owners of others brands that they seem to think have an elitist attitude. A bit of hypocrisy I'd say. I wonder what drives a person to bash others who share their passion for the sport.....

Paul
 

offcamber

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It's human nature to support and defend what you bought no matter how good or bad it is. You will see brand loyalty in everything. Most owners will stay true even to a crappy product until they hit rock bottom and get rid of it. We use to see the same rivalry between Jeep, Land-rover, Hummer, Toyota etc...Everyone's was the best off-road, everyone's was better designed....they all had their good and bad points. I think a little brand loyalty is fine and ribbing the other guy good naturally is okay as well. Its when things go to complete snobbery there is a problem. I Can't say I have experienced it. Most of my friends ride HD, yes I give as good as I get and every once in a while I get the "when are you gonna buy a real bike" comment. I usually reply with when HD builds something I like at reasonable price and without chrome....so aka never....

If a HD or BMW guy look down at your S10 just laugh it off and know that someday you'll probably pass them while they are broke down on the side of the road ::013::
 
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