How many punctures are too many?

[Dirt_Dad]

I've never contemplated that question until this afternoon.

Bike was hard to get rolling off kickstand this morning. I knew that feeling. Looked down and had a flat. No big deal, I was going to ride the other Tenere anyways. Rolled it out of the way, put it up on the stand, then did a quick survey of the tire.

Doctor Obvious said, "well, there's your problem."



Didn't like what I saw after I started pulling.


Damn, that may be the worst looking thing I've ever picked up.


After riding the other bikes, I returned to plug the obvious hole in my Tenere. Inflated the tire and found a second hole...plugged. Inflated to 25lbs, check with soapy water, so far so good. Inflated to 42lbs...two more tiny holes appear. So I have at least 4 holes needing attention all within 8 inches of each other.

That's too much for even me. I've never hesitated to plug and ride. 4 holes in 8 inches found so far... I'm out.

I really thought this Anakee III was going to get me through the winter. Now I have to figure out what I'm trying next.

 

[Maxified]

Dang, that is aggravating to get that many punctures so close together. Were you able to identify the dagger looking piece of metal? Tire insurance? A while ago on my way home from the dealer with my brand new Bandit 1250S I managed to pick up a construction double-headed nail that went through the tread & side wall. Sad to have to replace a tire with only 150 miles on it.

 

[Harry Dresden PI]

From

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-318268.html

NOT ME

===================


"I first posted this in 1998 after suffering two rear tire flats on my 1500 SE which required the purchase of two new tires as they were non-repairable. More importantly, the second flat was actually a rapid deflation at 75 mph on I-10 which could have had serious consequences had the tire not stayed on the rim. The tire was totally flat within 3 seconds from a 3/8" diameter hole punched into it. As it was I truly believed for a few seconds that I was going to eat a lot of concrete.

The physics of flats: As explained to me by a Doctorate in Physics, a front tire flat is caused by an object thrown up by a car in front of you; one you're following or an oncoming vehicle. A rear flat is caused by an object thrown up by the front tire. According to him this accounts for 95+% of all flats on all vehicles.
My solution is simple and effective; put something in front of the rear tire to "knock down" any object thrown up by the front tire.

I came up with the idea of mounting a mud flap to the center stand such that when the centerstand was in the "up" or riding position, the mud flap would hang down to protect the rear tire. I purchased a set of flaps and modified one of them by cutting the top to a width matching the centerstand crossbar and mounted it to the centerstand with stainless steel radiator clamps which passed through slots cut near the top of the flap. I tapered the flap so that it widened toward the bottom.

The key to success is to have the mud flap positioned just above the ground so that any object thrown by the front tire was "knocked down" so it could not penetrate the rear tire. To achieve this I cut the flap a little long and let the bike grind it to the proper length and to contour the outer edges so it would still work while cornering. Note: my suspension was always set to ride approximately the same height whether riding solo, two-up, or fully loaded. While the debris from grinding the mud flap did make a mess of the rear end as it was ground down it was fairly easy to clean up. About 100 miles did the job of shaping the flap.
I never had another rear flat in the eight remaining years I owned the bike. When I purchased the 1800 in Jan. 2011 this mod was the first thing done. Now I have had it triked so it's not needed.

No matter what rear tire you're using, preventing tire punctures will save lots of hassles and maybe a whole lot more. It's cheap, easy, and it works.

This is the only picture I have of the 1500. If you look you can see the flap on the center stand."

 

[Don in Lodi]

Our rule of thumb has been to repair nothing larger than 1/4", and nothing past the transition to sidewall. To many belts or cords have been destroyed by then, weakening a fairly large area of the structure, or the side wall will flex more than the patch can handle. I've done a few repairs where it looked like the customer had run over a box of pointy things. Nails tend to push the belts aside, nice repair. Screws tend to catch and tear belts as they go through, sometimes leaving stray strands poking inside that gets tucked back in and covered with a patch. We have on display as a Road Hazard selling ad, two tires that have been made un-usable, one has a six inch pair of pliers shoved through halfway up the handles, the other is a ten ply LT with a railroad spike driven in to the hilt. Yep, both were rear tires. We once salvaged a pair of side cutters from a tire, they're in somebody's tool box now. Had a smashed flat AA battery in one a few days ago. Roads are a scary place.

 

[2112]

Bugger ! At least it didn't happen on the move. We should have a 'guess the object' game to try to identify the offending object.

 

[Checkswrecks]

From

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-318268.html

NOT ME

===================


"I first posted this in 1998 after suffering two rear tire flats on my 1500 SE which required the purchase of two new tires as they were non-repairable. More importantly, the second flat was actually a rapid deflation at 75 mph on I-10 which could have had serious consequences had the tire not stayed on the rim. The tire was totally flat within 3 seconds from a 3/8" diameter hole punched into it. As it was I truly believed for a few seconds that I was going to eat a lot of concrete.

The physics of flats: As explained to me by a Doctorate in Physics, a front tire flat is caused by an object thrown up by a car in front of you; one you're following or an oncoming vehicle. A rear flat is caused by an object thrown up by the front tire. According to him this accounts for 95+% of all flats on all vehicles.
My solution is simple and effective; put something in front of the rear tire to "knock down" any object thrown up by the front tire.

I came up with the idea of mounting a mud flap to the center stand such that when the centerstand was in the "up" or riding position, the mud flap would hang down to protect the rear tire. I purchased a set of flaps and modified one of them by cutting the top to a width matching the centerstand crossbar and mounted it to the centerstand with stainless steel radiator clamps which passed through slots cut near the top of the flap. I tapered the flap so that it widened toward the bottom.

The key to success is to have the mud flap positioned just above the ground so that any object thrown by the front tire was "knocked down" so it could not penetrate the rear tire. To achieve this I cut the flap a little long and let the bike grind it to the proper length and to contour the outer edges so it would still work while cornering. Note: my suspension was always set to ride approximately the same height whether riding solo, two-up, or fully loaded. While the debris from grinding the mud flap did make a mess of the rear end as it was ground down it was fairly easy to clean up. About 100 miles did the job of shaping the flap.
I never had another rear flat in the eight remaining years I owned the bike. When I purchased the 1800 in Jan. 2011 this mod was the first thing done. Now I have had it triked so it's not needed.

No matter what rear tire you're using, preventing tire punctures will save lots of hassles and maybe a whole lot more. It's cheap, easy, and it works.

This is the only picture I have of the 1500. If you look you can see the flap on the center stand."

Harry, I recognize this wasn't you and have heard this wive's tale before. But as somebody who has reconstructed a number of tires at the facilities of more than one manufacturer, it is just not what happens.


The contact patch of a tire on the road is anything but two flat surfaces coming together as the tire rolls along and when you get the actual tire physicists (yes they exist) talking, they get excited.
???


There is a lot of deformation at the tread to create the friction bond, both mechanically and chemically. Roll your tire over a piece of paper, look very close at the tread marks, and you can see at least the mechanical deformation. The tread doesn't only create friction with the pavement, it deforms around everything between the tire and the pavement. Press your finger on some spilled salt or dust and it's the same idea. If there is an object on the road, the rubber will flow around it, the sharp end will embed, and the friction will pick it up.


The rotation of the tire will cause the object to hang by the sharp end as the rest of the object re-orients to be driven through the tread the next time it comes around to the pavement.


There are also good reasons for us to get more rear flats, which include:
We typically park with the rear toward a curb, where the hazards are.
More surface area in the footprint of a rear tire, increasing opportunity.
More weight. (Think again about the analogy of pressing your finger on some salt.)
More tread deformation in use.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Jon -

I'm sure that we all know purists on both sides of the repair/don't repair question. One side will insist that any puncture is grounds for replacement and the other side will insist that you can just keep applying patches to the interior tire casing till you run out of room.

Don's quarter inch concept is very valid as something that would be "pregnant" and for all the right reasons about damage to the fibers in the construction. There can be a lot of disbanding and tearing, especially with a high speed tire as opposed to one used at low speeds, so you can have wider damage than thought and an actual safe limit may be less than the quarter inch.


What most people don't realize is that the wheel hub is suspended by tension in the fibers from above the centerline of the tire, and that little weight is held off the ground by the apparent "bubble" between the axle and the ground. That's why those fibers are so important.

But in the end, it sounds like you came here thinking your A3 has reached a common-sense limit, and I sure think it makes sense to find something new. At least you have something else to ride int he meantime.

 

[Ramseybella]

Dang, that is aggravating to get that many punctures so close together. Were you able to identify the dagger looking piece of metal? Tire insurance? A while ago on my way home from the dealer with my brand new Bandit 1250S I managed to pick up a construction double-headed nail that went through the tread & side wall. Sad to have to replace a tire with only 150 miles on it.

Looks to have been a two piece object at one time, hole in the center looks like it may have been hinged?
That is one huge piece of metal.
I had a rock wedge into my tread of a brand new Dunlop Tour Ellite rear on my 81 GL1100 years ago.
I didn't know it until I was coming home to Florida from New Mexico late Sunday afternoon no place Texas (great place for a flat)!!
The damn thing just wiggled it's way through and then flat, lucky I was a block away from a small town with a 7 day truck repair shop we plugged it from the inside.
Got me home.

 

[EricV]

When I lived in OR I used to ride with a couple of State Trooper motor officers on occasion. The flat topic came up and they mentioned that the State's policy was no more than three puncture repairs, no sidewall damage, and no more than two repairs in the same quarter of the tire, (rotation wise). That's a standard that I feel is pretty reasonable. They get a lot of flats due to all the shoulder riding from traffic stops and, as you might imagine, are not willing to risk officer's safety over the cost of a new tire.

I think the 1/4" size is about as large as I'd trust for a repair unless I used one of the mushroom type inside patches that pull the long tail thru the tire from the inside to the outside, pulling the large patch flush with the inside of the tire. Done correctly, that will fix a darn large hole. I've only used one of those once on a moto tire, and I was able to ride it another 5k miles to the end of it's tread life w/o issue.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

But in the end, it sounds like you came here thinking your A3 has reached a common-sense limit, and I sure think it makes sense to find something new. At least you have something else to ride int he meantime.

Yep, I'm not hurting for something to ride until I get this replaced. I've plugged two fairly close holes made by a heavy staple and never had an issue. 4 holes just drops my confidence too much. That A3 had a good amount of life left, but I won't really miss it. It's an adequate tire that does not inspire customer loyalty (why or why is the A2 gone?).

I have no idea what the object is. My daughter looked at the picture and immediately declared it a knife, no doubt, it's a knife, she said with absolute certainty. Since it was a square edge with no attempt to have any sharpening, I had to disagree. But I don't have a clue.

I'm pretty sure I know where I picked it up.



I was ending a nearly 200 mile ride last weekend when I stopped here to take a photo for the moto-tag game. Everything had been great to this point. After this photo I rode .6 miles to turn on my road. Tire felt squirmy on that turn. I rode the remaining .25 miles to home, again squirmy into the driveway. I took a quick look and it still appeared inflated, but it was very cold that day and I didn't spend much time hanging out after the ride. I quickly forgot all about it. Trying to roll a flat tire Tenere is a instant reminder.

 

[BarkSlayer]

I carry a tire plugging kit and only ride on a plugged tire until I can replace it first opportunity. When it comes to tires and safety, I just don't tempt fate.

 

[yz454]

Most of my tires will have at least 2 plugs before the tires gets worn out .

 

[Checkswrecks]

Damn, that may be the worst looking thing I've ever picked up.

Obviously you don't hang with fishermen. They'd be too slow for your world.

 

[S_Palmer]

Like most people I carry and use a plug system to get me home . When I get home I dismount the tire and
Patch it from inside. I know most shops wont repair and a lot of riders won't ride any kind of repair. I think
It's more sales pitch than liability.

Has any one ever seen or heard of an inside repair failing?

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Obviously you don't hang with fishermen. They'd be too slow for your world.

True, I've tried hunting and fishing. My daughter predicted I'd never be patient enough to sit still for hunting. For the most part, she's right. But I keep trying. No way I can do the fishing thing. Just don't have that level of zen inside me.

Has any one ever seen or heard of an inside repair failing?

Never an inside patch. Did once see a hole so big it took about 4 sticky ropes to get it plugged. Tire got refilled, the guy rolled across the parking lot then stopped. Two seconds later the entire gob was spit out in a very comical way. Gave us all a chuckle. Unfortunately he met us back at camp with his bike on a flatbed. Otherwise, I've never seen a properly set sticky rope fail.

 

[Reilly]

Is everyone talking about plugging front tires as well? I was wondering about that a while back. Rear tires I could see but maybe a little more worried about plugging a front tire.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I can't recall ever having a flat up front. I would be fine plugging the front. I've see how well they work in the back.

 

[scott123007]

Has any one ever seen or heard of an inside repair failing?

Mushroom type inside patch where you pull the stem through the puncture hole has never failed as far as I know. (and I know of one that has been 219 mph ??? ::013:

Motorcycle tires are stronger than we give them credit for. There is always that possibility of catastrophic air loss from an exploding tire, but that is very rare and usually only happens at very high speeds, and almost always from heat, not previous punctures. Any other type of flat is just an inconvenience.

 

[Andylaser]

I have had front and rear tyres professionally plugged before without any problems.

 

[SingleTrackMind]

All this flat tire talk has me scratching my head as a new road/gravel rider. I've been driving cars and trucks for 35 years (only one flat). Abused dirt bikes on more rock than dirt (areas west of Calgary) and hammer my mount bike (it has Stan's tire sealant with tubeless rims) and touch wood have never had a flat. Is it the bike/combined weight and area contact that's causing most flats or just the fact that some roads are full of objects and debris. I wonder if the area that I live because every spring they sweep up the winter sand/gravel that they spread may take care of some debris that may harm tires whereas places that you can ride 12 months a year, may have more objects to contend with. Would be interesting if riders could mention locations they ride and number of flats, say on a flat per 10000 mile percentage.