Hey Yamaha, super tenere nearly killed me

greg the pole

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dcstrom said:
Good job keeping it upright mate! Time to find a way out of that bike I think. 2 unusual failures is one too many. Since those guys had the engine apart, and have proven themselves clods in multiple other ways, AND nobody else has had this bearing fail (97,000 miles on mine), seems to point to something the clods did...

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first off, glad you're ok.

I have to agree with the other guys here, it's not a factory failure. I ride my bike in similar places and fashion as you (40% off road, streams, tricky trails the lot. It sees little road only miles)
I've had two issues with my final drive. Both seals. Main seal on pumpkin, write up here. Cause of the failure was the swing arm plug on the sa fell out, as it was not secured properly (they all do it, so who ever listens I tell them to glue theirs in place: https://thetenerist.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/rear-shaft-drive-seal-replacement-and-staintune-pipe/

Second seal was the inner seal that went. this is due to wear and tear. It's a hour and half job (wheel off to wheel on), and no where as involved as the main seal. I did have a chance to look at the main wheel/pumpkin bearing, and it's the beefiest bearing I have ever seen.
I'll have to check my book to see when that one went, but if memory serves it was 45k km.
https://thetenerist.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/yamaha-st12-inner-shaft-seal-replacement/

Looking at your pictures from the dealer, and your write up about their work, the finger points at them. I'm a messy bastard, when I work, but I'm methodical, and getting better with age. Those guys make me look like a star.

good luck, and glad you're in one piece.
 

528Hz

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greg the pole said:
first off, glad you're ok.

I have to agree with the other guys here, it's not a factory failure. I ride my bike in similar places and fashion as you (40% off road, streams, tricky trails the lot. It sees little road only miles)
I've had two issues with my final drive. Both seals. Main seal on pumpkin, write up here. Cause of the failure was the swing arm plug on the sa fell out, as it was not secured properly (they all do it, so who ever listens I tell them to glue theirs in place: https://thetenerist.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/rear-shaft-drive-seal-replacement-and-staintune-pipe/

Second seal was the inner seal that went. this is due to wear and tear. It's a hour and half job (wheel off to wheel on), and no where as involved as the main seal. I did have a chance to look at the main wheel/pumpkin bearing, and it's the beefiest bearing I have ever seen.
I'll have to check my book to see when that one went, but if memory serves it was 45k km.
https://thetenerist.wordpress.com/2014/09/28/yamaha-st12-inner-shaft-seal-replacement/

Looking at your pictures from the dealer, and your write up about their work, the finger points at them. I'm a messy bastard, when I work, but I'm methodical, and getting better with age. Those guys make me look like a star.

good luck, and glad you're in one piece.
Oh yeah that swing arm plug, I sealed it shut with silicone from day. All I can say guys is that practice helps you out at any time. Who would have thought that that hooligan drifting practices on a rocket 3 would turn into a life saver on a tenere.

I see 4 possible scenarios here with one being true regarding middle drive gear bearing:

1. when clutch spring broke last year near ouray, co and made a lot of shavings from the case, even though davis made their best attempt to flush them out, it is possible that at least 1 small booger got into the bearing via oil system. Got lodged in there and eventually wore it out destroying it last tuesday. I know they did not inspect middle drive gear. and i know that yamaha did not direct them to doing so. I suppose they have an oil system schematic and could have foreseen that. However, no bad bearing noise was present at any time before or after davis because every time, religiously, before I go for a ride I actually spend a few minutes, checking the tire pressure, go over controls, spin the tires several times and then warm up the bike. thanks to the center stand. even on the morning of the incident just like always. It could have started making noise traveling from columbia to that bridge, but it's kind of difficult to hear on the interstate. the only signal I got before it happened was a distinct hesitation and a push forward about 30 seconds before the lockup. would it take 6000+ miles to wear that bearing out?

2. action guys possibly contaminated middle drive gear assembly by storing it in a contaminated environment during rebuild. but may be not.

3. something small, a screw perhaps inside the engine, went loose due to a half ass rebuild job and destroyed the bearing, thus making the bearing a symptom and not the actual cause of the overall issue.

4.defective bearing

Until the bearing is inspected at the lab for residue and such, at the very least, I can't point a finger on any of these. Now let me ask you, why do I have to tell these possible scenarios to yamaha? Why couldn't they think of that? They just went on quietly addressing the bearings and the seals and the yoke. So now they are scratching their heads, well maybe there is more to it.

What I can point a middle finger at, is Yamaha at this point for incompetence. That is not to say that other manufacturers would be any better, but since it is a yamaha bike...

A week later and the parts are still not in and they have no idea where they are and how long it will take to get here, this is as of today Monday Aug 10th. This plethora of useful tracking info came from the corporate office. Meanwhile I have the room here til Wednesday and then all hotels in town are booked because they are having a fair here. So I have to move to another town, keep paying lodging and car rental until they figure out how to reverse engineer this highly advanced, inter-dimensional extraterrestrial teleportation device that just does not seem to be able to get from NY to California for the second year in a row.

How long does it take to ride a not so super tenere from NY to california what, 3000 miles? Well, so far it's been two and the covered distance is getting shorter.

Yamaha gives out licenses, I suppose yamaha trains or certifies authorized mechanics and they should have a better judgement whom to issue licenses to. Yamaha provides direction on what parts to replace. And this bearing aside for a moment, clutch spring did break, on its own. It did happen after a valve check by an authorized dealer, but I don't suppose action yamaha guys pre-cut the spring for me while they were diking around with the valves. I still have not heard back on the cause and probably never will. It's obvious that it was a faulty spring. It's steel, most of it recycled anyway, does have imperfections. So can it be a faulty bearing, absolutely.

Another middle finger I can point at yamaha is that they tell dealers, hey we are paying you up to 5 hours of work, when a quality work would have taken 7 or 8 hours. but this one is true for most if not all manufacturers. This bullshit trickles down from the top. i hope it's an isolated incident for the sake of life, but all recalls start somewhere. this one is a 2013, ridden a lot. faulty clutch spring is how it started. 8)
 

528Hz

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The update, guys, is this. After yamaha dragged their feet for a year, telling everyone involved that they do not have complete engine assemblies for a simple refit operation, they mysteriously found 2 of them as I was told in a warehouse in the states. Brand new, 0 miles, virgin, wrapped up, sealed in a case with throttle bodies, cables, oil and filer all in one piece. This breaking news came a week after yamaha supposedly sent replacement parts surrounding middle drive gear bearing and yoke. This was on august 11th, exactly 1 week after the shaft lockup on the interstate that sent my girl with me on it into a violent drift. I can still hear truck tires screeching in my head.

So on the 11th, dealer was first notified that parts were now on back order, after a week of silence from them while everyone directly involved thought that parts were on the way as per yamaha. I did speak a rep several times during a period between Aug 5th and Aug 11th, re-iterating my concern about engine possibly being contaminated rendering the bike unsafe to operate, but all I got back was that they don't have new engines and they would keep investigating this which could take a while while I pay for the hotels and car rental, no word on the parts being on back order. They also told me that they apparently knew what I wanted. I was certainly curious to find out what yamaha thought that i wanted from them. They thought I wanted a brand new bike, you see ::001:: Silly meeee, how dare I want a new unit :D Maybe I should have asked for that. I replied to the arrogant rep on the phone that I wanted a new engine, the same thing I had asked for a year ago, untouched by any dealer. My girl was already tailored to my needs and I didn't want a new one to have to start all over unless absolutely necessary. If they could not furnish a new engine, then a new unit would have to be furnished, which is not unheard of, at least in the triumph world. I mean who wants to ride an unsafe bike that was contaminated with shavings, was opened up twice.

So right after notifying us that parts were not available, they notified also that they have a new motor that was being dispatched out, except that it would take a about week to get to missouri. I had to leave town for that additional weekdue to a state fair and all hotels booked up. I had a car rented out and went about exploring oklahoma, texas, new mexico, utah and colorado. I met up with my buddy in Moab that was riding matte grey tenere back east. We started off together back on Aug 2nd to Cali.

Come Friday Aug 14th, I believe it was, truck brings complete engine as well as middle drive gear replacement parts for the original job. I mean who does that? Does anyone keep tabs on parts coming in and out at yamaha?

I came back to MO on the eve of the 17th. On the 18th i went out for the first break in ride via small local roads. 35 miles, back to dump the oil, change filter. went out again, dumped the oil and filter at 180 or so on the 19th. Put fresh oil and filter headed out east on the 20th. ride back was basically acceleration and engine braking going through the gears 2-5 with an occasional 6th all the way home for about 1300 miles. To my advantage there were a lot fewer vehicles then I expected all the way home for the most part so I was able to pull that break in procedure off safely.

My respect and gratitude to the guys and gals at Yeagers Harley Davidson in Sedalia, Missouri. Not only were they very professional and extremely accommodating, they are great american families, with great sense of humor and I have no words that can describe the time I spent with them. Great home cooking, treating a stranded guy from NY like family. If you are ever passing through Missouri and in need something, Yeagers in Sedalia is a place to do it. They are predominantly HD, but also deal with suzuki, yamaha and polaris.

The bike. I still like the tenere. Even with me on top, loaded panniers, more gear behind me, a tire on the right crash bar and a full tank, she was easy to handle during the drift, like a light dirt bike. Impressed.

Yamaha customer support. Weeeeeell, I'd like to say f***ck you very much to yamaha customer support for the lack of it. Incompetence, lies, carelessness and negligence are some of the words that come to mind. Let me put it this way, had I been less experienced or panicked, I'd be dead. Had I been traveling on a budget both financially and time wise, it would have been a very very f***ked up experience. That's twice in a row. Once last year and once this year, this year topping it at 13 days of trip interruption with last years reaching 7 days, but it was a labor day weekend last year so who cares about that, right. I am not dropping on my knees in sudden burst of gratitude after yamaha reps lied to me. I got plenty of materials to take them to court. I am not a buff of any particular brand, certainly not a yamaha buff. I don't roll around with yamaha stickers all over my tenere or triumph all over my triumph and so on. There is nothing to buff about. I happened to like the tenere and that's where it starts and stops. God forbid something happens outside the lower 48. I don't even wanna go there.

I sincerely hope that all of you have safe travels on your reliable machines. I realize that this may be an isolated exception in a tenere line starting with a clutch spring breaking on its own last year. However I will duly note here, that when I purchase a product and get an extra warranty that promises a prompt part replacement, 13 days is ...... ummm.... This is not a euro bike.

yamaha trip interruption only covers $250 that has to get submitted by a dealer. $250 / 13 = $19.23 per day for wholesome meals and lodging while they dick around at some regional office picking their asses. Yamaha towing is a total garbage at best and it only covers $50, which in NY at least will barely cover a pickup fee. AMA towing has been excellent so far. I used them twice and twice got a tow without any hassles. Just take care of the driver. AMA is up to 35 miles. I believe AAA covers up to 200?

Point is that yamaha yes warranty is a questionable money sucking gimmick. Their towing is worthless. You will spend more time submitting claims then the 50 dollars is worth. $250 trip interruption - I would say unless you are down for less then 3 days, then it may be worth it, unless you like sleeping in a ditch. Pay as least as possible for it. It's not worth a dime at best because you get careless and indifferent representatives who know nothing about bikes. They obviously have no clue as to where the parts are, what they are sending and what the best course of action is in troubleshooting. Yamaha should be including YES for free with every bike. And if they need to investigate your case, you better have some extra vacation time stashed away. If you want to get in touch with a supervisor, they will gladly put in a request, set your case aside and I believe it's 3-5 days for a supervisor to get in touch with you. No one will work on your case, once supervisor request has been placed. I couldn't possibly begin to imagine what this supervisor is so busy doing that you have to wait for at least 3 days. Oh and don't break down during holidays.
 

Rasher

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Glad your back on the road.

Reckon you have been very unlucky, but does sound like Yamaha were pretty useless in all this. I had a string of issues with a new Kawasaki a few years ago, including a recall that would leave me without a bike for several weeks, the dealer was pretty hopeless (comments like "I did not put your bike together") and when I suggested they contact Kawasaki and see if they can help he told me that they would not, refusing to even pick up the phone and ask.

I said I would buy a new one (mine was about 4 weeks old) if he / Kawasaki could do something on the price, he offered me a px of less than the value of a year old identical bike he had in the showroom was up for against a new bike at full list...

...At this point I got some legal advice (lucky contact I had) who said I could just return in and demand money back and would win, but it could drag on through the summer so I called Kawasaki first - they were very helpful and got the bike in to their own workshop and sorted within a week and gave me some free accessories.


It must have cost Yamaha far more to mess you around than it would have done to swap the engine - maybe this is down to how your extended warranty works though, in the UK many extended warranties are basically insurance policies sourced in the region by the importer rather than a service provided by the Manufacturer in Japan.

Under original manufacturers warranty I would expect an engine swap to be more likely as I imagine the "factory gate" cost of a complete engine is relatively low - BMW swap them out all the time, but I suspect Yamaha are not used to coming across totally f****d engines very often and have yet to figure this out.

One last thing - make sure them chimps have tightened all the engine and ancillary mounts up properly ::008::
 

Dogdaze

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I'm glad it has all worked out for you. ::008::
On a slightly different note, I would be reluctant to blame the manufacturer based in Japan (Yamaha in this case) for all your troubles. Having worked for a manufacturer from Bavaria we would often come across customer issues that never reached HO, due to dealers not willing to communicate these issues up the ladder, as part of franchise ownership anything needed doing would be done and paid for by HO and a portion of that cost, labour, would be at the dealer's cost, and dealers hated that, but that is the price of doing business. In short, customers would always get the short end of the stick, and HO would rarely ever know about it. This is where BMW have the edge, they now dictate to their dealers how operations need to be run or they will pull your franchise overnight. At no point would a dealer be allowed to make a call on a potential defective product, as BMW will want the offending part back to be tested and the satisfaction of the customer is regarded as the goal. PERIOD. Also, 'back end bonus' from manufacturer (up to 8%) would be held back if a customer satisfaction score is not reached.
 

shrekonwheels

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Is the 13 days working days, or total? Regardless for a complete anomaly I think that is quit decent to be honest.

Have fun traveling around living the dream ::013::
 

528Hz

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shrekonwheels said:
Is the 13 days working days, or total? Regardless for a complete anomaly I think that is quit decent to be honest.

Have fun traveling around living the dream ::013::
I intend on making fun even out of ordeal such as this ::008::
It was 13 total days this time or 9 working days. I count all days.
6-7 days in Colorado
60 days engine case replacement
 

528Hz

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Dogdaze said:
I'm glad it has all worked out for you. ::008::
On a slightly different note, I would be reluctant to blame the manufacturer based in Japan (Yamaha in this case) for all your troubles. Having worked for a manufacturer from Bavaria we would often come across customer issues that never reached HO, due to dealers not willing to communicate these issues up the ladder, as part of franchise ownership anything needed doing would be done and paid for by HO and a portion of that cost, labour, would be at the dealer's cost, and dealers hated that, but that is the price of doing business. In short, customers would always get the short end of the stick, and HO would rarely ever know about it. This is where BMW have the edge, they now dictate to their dealers how operations need to be run or they will pull your franchise overnight. At no point would a dealer be allowed to make a call on a potential defective product, as BMW will want the offending part back to be tested and the satisfaction of the customer is regarded as the goal. PERIOD. Also, 'back end bonus' from manufacturer (up to 8%) would be held back if a customer satisfaction score is not reached.
It was japan that recalled basket with a broken spring back to the factory in japan for study. I am also aware of the fact that someone from japan was involved directly into the original middle gear bearing replacement request. So while japan may appear to be exempt from my ragging, they are not, not to mention that policies in a corporation are made at the top and trickle down. It all comes down what we choose to accept from these entities time after time collectively.
 

shrekonwheels

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432Hz said:
I intend on making fun even out of ordeal such as this ::008::
I am not known for my luck, I suspect you are not either. People like us always try to make the best and just keep going up that muddy slope, clawing for the top, cursing as we slip and fall, laughing at how dirty we got.
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
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glad you're back on the road. Safe travels.
I never bothered with extra warranty. Just wanted a reliable good bike.
I believe I got it for the most part.
 

Ramseybella

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432Hz said:
No, it was parked between chevy impala and tahoe, if that tells you anything. Government Motors?
GM, BMW whats the difference? ;D

Glad you held it together, I have seen your bike when you stopped at my camp in Ouray before you headed back home after the clutch spring episode, I remember you saying you dropped it a couple time in the passes.
Your rig is impressive as I stated on your clutch spring thread.
I have stuff happen like Murphy's law, recent was no idle (I seemed to have made it go away with some cleaning) and ongoing (not factory related) was my rear third Woody's wheel cracking again!!
Happy as hell for you that the clowns finely stepped up to the plate and gave you a new Coffee grinder!! ::008::
And after all the Crap you went through and money you spent in the end it would have been like dropping a speck of sand in the ocean for Yamaha not to just give you a new motor at the beginning and get praised instead of scorned for dragging feet passing the buck and not answering the damn phone!
Now look what sort of negative Google search Yamaha motors have set themselves up for, as if Yamaha advertises any of there products to begin with.
They now shoot themselves in the head on a bike that honestly does not fly out the doors at the dealership to begin with.
And wonder why Sh*t gets heavily discounted a year or two or worse discontinued all together and loss of revenue.

These guys are truly Arrogant, stupid or both in a nut shell.
I have had similar experiences with Triumph when I had my 1050 Tiger but not as bad as this.
I love this bike I don't intend to get rid of it as of yet but cringe at the fact I may have to use the YES to get something done.
I think your issue was isolated and related to the clutch spring and debris that got away may have worked it's way to the bearings.

Never the less I think you can rest at peace and ride on brother. ::026::
 
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