Help raising the 2014+ ES

[Karl]

Gents I had a good look around and even spoke to Jaxon and I cant get this cleared up.

I am (188cm) 6' 2 and I find myself flat foot with knees bent on the bike with no luggage (preload set to 2 up). The real problem comes in the twisties where I am scraping, particularly the LHS very easily. The bike on a flat surface has the rear wheel about 35-40mm off the ground (OEM tyres) So I am thinking an inch or so, 25-30mm lift would be fine (I did this to my last bike).

I have found a vendor that only does a 20mm lift link for the ES. They also say the raising links are ES specific. The part number for the 14/15 ES and Non ES stock links are different, so that is a fair thing I suppose. I was hoping for more than 20mm lift to make an appreciable difference.

Also when I spoke to Jaxon, he had no difference between an ES and Non ES raising link and had no specifics on what the actual rise on an ES can be with his link.

Any experience out there with raising the ES?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[WJBertrand]

I'd forgo the raising links for a 20% stiffer rear spring. Is such a thing available?


-Jeff

 

[Karl]

Perhaps, I would prefer to change the geometry of the bike first, as I think the current spring rate is OK.

K

 

[caillou]

I would go with a stiffer spring instead of raising link. Raising link may affect the drive shaft, giving it more angle that is supposed to have when rear shock if fully extended and the universal joint may not appreciate. My 2 cents.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I am (188cm) 6' 2 and I find myself flat foot with knees bent on the bike with no luggage (preload set to 2 up). The real problem comes in the twisties where I am scraping, particularly the LHS very easily. The bike on a flat surface has the rear wheel about 35-40mm off the ground (OEM tyres) So I am thinking an inch or so, 25-30mm lift would be fine (I did this to my last bike).

I have found a vendor that only does a 20mm lift link for the ES. They also say the raising links are ES specific. The part number for the 14/15 ES and Non ES stock links are different, so that is a fair thing I suppose. I was hoping for more than 20mm lift to make an appreciable difference.

Also when I spoke to Jaxon, he had no difference between an ES and Non ES raising link and had no specifics on what the actual rise on an ES can be with his link.

Any experience out there with raising the ES?

Thanks for any advice.

No personal experience with links on this bike, but from being in the forum since the beginning, I remember members talking about them and a quick Google found this:
http://www.lustracing.co.uk/suspension/yamaha-xt1200z-super-tenere-jackup-kit.html


It may be that the difference is that the ES version needs to clear the damping adjuster at the bottom of the shock. The vendor ought to know.


The spring runs out of pre-load with a rider of about 190 pounds and with your height, you may be well over that. So the thoughts about the spring may have merit, regardless of height. If the ES sag can be adjusted (I have a non-ES) the starting points for adjusting both front and back are empty weight sag of 19mm and sag with rider of 57mm. That's easy enough to check with what you have. Pre-load procedure (if possible) is in your owners manual.


And I don't mean to insult with this, but not knowing your experience level or how far you are trying to lean, I'll throw out that these bikes are also so tall that it is pretty easy to get a lot more potential lean by shifting your butt farther to the inside of a turn.

 

[Karl]

Thanks for the responses gents. I will check those sag figures (they are really helpful), and yes, I am about 250lbs.

Anyone re-sprung the rear of the ES then? Anyone know the stock spring rate?

K

 

[hojo in sc]

The real problem comes in the twisties where I am scraping, particularly the LHS very easily.

You go boy!!! ::012:: ::012:: ::012::

 

[Karl]

It was a bit of a shock really, I just ride the bike the same as my old bikes (Honda blackbird and BMW R1150GSA) so I came to the freeway on-ramp 10 minutes after picking it up and there was one of those 180 degree turn lead in roads. It scraped for most of it...

 

[fredz43]

Thanks for the responses gents. I will check those sag figures (they are really helpful), and yes, I am about 250lbs.

Anyone re-sprung the rear of the ES then? Anyone know the stock spring rate?

K

Stock shock info, including spring rate.

 

[Karl]

That is gold, thanks heaps.

That is a massive reduction in spring rate (43%) for a small increase in stroke (21%), must be a different ratio in the linkages, no wonder the dog bones are different part numbers, probably completely different lengths.

 

[Rodge]

That is gold, thanks heaps.

That is a massive reduction in spring rate (43%) for a small increase in stroke (21%), must be a different ratio in the linkages, no wonder the dog bones are different part numbers, probably completely different lengths.

Hi Karl,
I weight about 230 and I'm a pretty aggressive albeit smooth rider.. (I think LOL!) I ride with the 2 passengers preload at soft setting +2 damping, with the fork lowered 10mm in the triple clamp. This is the geometry I like. However the damping is too harsh combined with the preload I have in the standard setting.
I do have an ACD skidplate, I removed the center stand and also removed the footpeg feeler, I don't remember what side it was in? there is only 1.
I only scrapped hard one time at the bottom of hill in a turn with a small depression on the road.
I ordered the lustracing jackup dogbones and will installed them later on this winter, need to remove/slack off the header due to bolt clearance. My goal is to have the geometry I want in a softer preload setting for general street riding and have a useable standard setting for banzai moments with the flick of the switch...
At one time I did contemplate changing springs, but I feel that with the dogbones I will achieve my goal, or close enough.
Don't forget that shortening the dogbones increases the spring stiffness (less moment on linkage) it can't be that much more but it does effect it.
Also, would recommend to match the front springs rate if you decide to increase the rear rate... This is unknown territory on the ES, looking at the manual it can be done...
Good luck and keep us posted.
Cheers

 

[Karl]

Thanks Rodge,

I am going to check my sag tonight to see how close I am to 57mm, I have also been riding on the two up setting in soft/medium modes.

I put it in two up plus luggage last night and it felt good around town, but I am worried that if I am doing that unloaded, what will it be like with some gear on there. I am also going to ride some of my most favourite roads this weekend for the first time with this new bike, so I will get a better handle on the scraping. I might pull that feeler off too (it is on the LHS, sitting on the bike).

K

 

[Karl]

So I checked the sag last night (looking for 57mm), it was 83mm wearing no gear, no luggage (just racks) in 2up plus luggage mode. 100mm in 1up mode.

I find it very strange that it is this bad out of the box.

 

[WJBertrand]

Stock shock info, including spring rate.

Maybe it has something to do with the suspension geometry, but the increase in stroke for the ES is almost exactly half the reduction in spring rate. Intuitively I might have expected a 1:1 relationship between stroke and rate but it appears to be 1:2?

 

[Karl]

So putting in a raising link will change the bikes height straight up. This is fine, but not if I am still using 80-100mm of travel just to support my fat arse.

So will changing the linkage "Triangle" appreciably effect the rate at which the shock strokes for any given wheel movement? Could it make my poor spring rate situation better or worse?

K

 

[Karl]

So a little bit of research says the linkage change barely effects the effective spring rate on a S10..

So I had a great ride on some of my favorite twisty roads. Once I removed the peg feeler and put the suspension on 2up plus luggage and full hard +0, it was reasonably good. Throwing a leg over is already difficult so I am thinking I dont need to raise the bike on the linkage if I can raise the bike with a new spring. If I can get my sag from 83mm down to 57mm, that is a raise of 26mm which sould be plenty.

So I am thinking this damper needs a re-spring which I have done before and I have a lathe to make a collar if I need it.

Has anyone else possibly re-sprung the rear of the ES?

K

 

[fjrden]

Hi chaps has anyone found a definitive answer to this interesting read? I raised my Las bike and consider doing the same with the ES. I never did anything with front end of bike.

 

[Karl]

I think you have already seen my write up about how to re-spring the ES. Good luck.

K