Tenman
Well-Known Member
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT ANYONE????
www.panamericaforums.com
Harley Pan Am taking it on the chin
- Thread starter Tenman
- Start date
www.panamericaforums.com
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
Man, if they're complaining now, wait until the bitching starts for the guys who buy the latest Pan Am CVO model at 28 freaking thousand dollars. 28 large for what is definitely a contender for the title of "ugliest ADV bike ever made".
Man, Harley had the potential to make this a great bike. ADV being the biggest/fastest growing segment. The Live Wire tanked, now the PA. Indian is just sittin' back laughing their asses off. They will be the only American made bike a few years. Unless Harley's clothing line keeps them afloat.
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cyclemike4
Well-Known Member
WOW! I was worried about all the issues that a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over complicated bike would have and that the dealers would not be able to understand what is going on much less fix issues. Harley had the bull by the nuts so to speak and I feel with continued improvements was ready to take a huge chunk of this adventure market. I really wanted that bike to go for Harley but if they are not willing to put the effort into making it the premium bike they advertise it will be another great project down the drain. It seems like Harley wants to do a project and do a good job but for some reason the upper management doesn't see projects like Pan America are never ending and the continued development and corrective actions never stop. that is what it takes to be at the top of this market.
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
Actually it sounds very similar to many of the Yamaha Super Tenere threads.
I have done a lot of reading on the Pan Am Facebook groups and you wouldn't believe how many buyers didn't even make it home from the dealer after buying a new PA. They are not a very happy group. In Harleys defense, there was no way they could have know that a rubber radiator hose couldn't stand up to a 1000*C exhaust pipe. 
Not too long ago there was a dealer here in Wisconsin advertising new leftover 2022 Specials for $16,000. Lots of low mileage used ones on Cycle Trader in the $12000-$13000 range. It's too bad, the bike had lots of potential.
You have to wonder how something like this and the other problems didn't show up in testing. I have 3 friends that work for HD, one in engineering, one in engine development and the other in testing. I'll have to interrogate them about the Pan Am. They were really trying to get me to buy one.I have done a lot of reading on the Pan Am Facebook groups and you wouldn't believe how many buyers didn't even make it home from the dealer after buying a new PA. They are not a very happy group. In Harleys defense, there was no way they could have know that a rubber radiator hose couldn't stand up to a 1000*C exhaust pipe.
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Donk
Well-Known Member
It's simple. Harley is being run by corporate types that don't know or care about motorcycles. Their only interest is the bottom line. The whole top end of the "new" engine is right off a V-Rod just cleaned up to look new on the outside. Tragic in a way but HD gets what the deserve. Pretty simple really compare a Harley to an Indian and see which company is trying to build good bikes.
The weird, or sad, thing is . . . . I still see more PAs on the road than Teneres. There's a guy that lives somewhere down the road that has one, or two that have one. I saw the orange/black one a couple of times, then the olive green with the white star showed up. The green one has a set of boxes and rides quite frequently. Or the orange one broke and got traded in on the green; don't know.
cyclemike4
Well-Known Member
I have seen and heard of people with Pan Americas that have said they have not had trouble with the bike too. I guess if someone who didn't know a Super Tenere looked on here checking out the issues that this bike has had to deal with they may think it was unreliable as well. We all know better than that though. I know a person who bought a Pan America last year. I will have to keep in touch with him and see how his holds up. Believe me if it can be broke he can and will do it. He takes very good care of his bikes but rides them like he stole them. I figured there would be first attempt issues that would crop up like it does with any new model but it does seem Harley is content to just let it ride instead of jumping in and making updates and improvements. It is so sad too because that bike has more than just good potential. I thought the V-Rod had great potential if they had put that motor in chassis that was useable for something. they made that bike and no other updates were ever made that I know of. Back when Harley was running super bike and had Duhamel riding it and others as well I thought they are going to make a great bike out of this racing program. Where did that go? Yes they made the V-rod from that effort but what happened to the super bike that they could sell from racing on Sunday? Who knows what they think there. Just watching every penny I guess. Sure hope Harley puts a second wind into the Pan America. Yes Sierra I do see more Pan Americas than Super T's. I guess some of them are running and doing well but I have not heard of any having as many miles as Super T!
Dougbug
Active Member
I have an independent mechanic who works on all makes of bikes (he is really good) and last time I was there to pick up my S10 forks after service I saw a Hardly Ableson he was working on. I asked about HD's and he went into a rant about what a pos bike they produce, bad engineering combined with piss poor quality control. One bike may go 80k miles and the next 20K before they fall apart. He told me he warns his HD customers that things may get pricey real fast but I suspect the clients know of his quality work and are willing to get it done correctly.
Sad that an American company can't do better.
Sad that an American company can't do better.
I believe they can, but choose not to.
Dirt_Dad
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
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I think most of us in the Adventure world had very low expectations when HD announced they were going to build an Adventure bike. When the PA finally hit the market it appeared HD exceeded most everyone's justified skepticism.
I've never been a fan of HD, but I'll admit, I'm disappointed to hear the ended up meeting the original expectations. Too bad. I would have enjoyed being wrong on this one.
I've never been a fan of HD, but I'll admit, I'm disappointed to hear the ended up meeting the original expectations. Too bad. I would have enjoyed being wrong on this one.
Paul466
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to see the black leather Klim pirate outfit for it
MattR
Well-Known Member
I’ve had several Harleys and I get what they are about. But they should stick to the only thing they do well: producing good looking cruisers that don’t try to compete with anything else.
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blitz11
Well-Known Member
It happens with all brands. I bought a new TM Racing EN300ES (300cc two-stroke with fuel injection) and the exhaust power valve had a bug in the ECU firmware. This has been a problem now for 5 years!
I have experience here, and offered to fix the ECU firmware - for free, i'd sign an NDA, etc. Nothing.
So, i ended up designing and building my own electronics for the bike, and even supplied some to the USA racing team because the factory wouldn't support them. The factory's answer was "get better riders."
They're not selling in the USA this year, and I've heard that the US is their biggest market. The local (USA) people are THE BOMB, really terrific, but they're hamstrung.
I guess no one really cares about quality any longer. The bikes are fantastic, but lack of support has soured me from the brand. It's likely the last dirt bike i'll buy, so it was worth the effort to design and build my own electronics.
How can a factory not know how to fix a problem? That is TOTAL B.S. Just a sorry excuse for not caring.
I have experience here, and offered to fix the ECU firmware - for free, i'd sign an NDA, etc. Nothing.
So, i ended up designing and building my own electronics for the bike, and even supplied some to the USA racing team because the factory wouldn't support them. The factory's answer was "get better riders."
They're not selling in the USA this year, and I've heard that the US is their biggest market. The local (USA) people are THE BOMB, really terrific, but they're hamstrung.
I guess no one really cares about quality any longer. The bikes are fantastic, but lack of support has soured me from the brand. It's likely the last dirt bike i'll buy, so it was worth the effort to design and build my own electronics.
How can a factory not know how to fix a problem? That is TOTAL B.S. Just a sorry excuse for not caring.
I cannot ever remember reading a thread on any Yamaha bike where problems persisted that the dealership couldn't sort out. I do remember a few FJR members who had to print out Yamaha tech service bulletins to provide to their dealers, but not much beyond that.
I have also noticed that the new Guzzi Stelvio has a very stripped down electronics package for the introductory model, and that seems like a wise decision!
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
Obviously you have simply ignored plenty, like the 50+ page thread about hard starts, or all the complaints about very lousy headlights.