GPS HELP!!!!

bloodline

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Moderators- not sure this is the right forum. My apologies if it's not.

I'm in GPS hell. I'm so ready to throw them all away and just stay lost. Seriously.

Anyway, I have some questions that I just can't seem to answer.

1. How do I make a route in google maps? Stupid question, right? Well, I've made a few routes. When I convert them to .gpx, i only get the one or two waypoints on the route. i want the whole damn thing. What am I doing wrong?

2. when I try to follow a route on my garmin, I'm not getting turn by turn directions. i'm just getting a highlighted route with a purple line between track points. Is that all I can expect?

3. I've got one of these Ipads and one of those iphones too. and I've got motion x and stuff. Can't use that either before I can't seem to get a "route" from google maps. See question #1.

I really hate all this stuff. Someone please help me before I go buy a road atlas and throw all this sh!t away.
 

newventurer

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I feel your frustration and have had the same. I have a Garmin Zumo 665 and wanted to download maps as well. I finally used Mapquest and found the process fairly easy. I am sorry I can't specifically answer the question about the turn by turn instructions as I haven't used the map I downloaded yet (it's for the Alaska trip). I may go out and start on the route in the near future and see how it works and will let you know. Step away from the edge ::010::.
 

Firefight911

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I do Google map stuff only for reference but create all my routes using MapSource.

What you describe seems to me as you only have a track and not a route. A track will only give you a brad crumb line to follow (for off road where roads don't exist) and a route will give you turn by turn.
 

tomatocity

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I am listening with a curious ear. I have never used .gpx though need to. Have listened to a few other GPS users though they all seem to speak as if the other person understands GPS and the language. Not much help. I currently enter place to place until I get there.
 

tomatocity

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Firefight911 said:
I do Google map stuff only for reference but create all my routes using MapSource.

What you describe seems to me as you only have a track and not a route. A track will only give you a brad crumb line to follow (for off road where roads don't exist) and a route will give you turn by turn.
Where is a How To for MapSource?
 

markjenn

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tomatocity said:
Where is a How To for MapSource?
If you're learning a new application, I'd suggest using Garmin's Basecamp rather than MapSource. Garmin is discontinuing further development of MapSource.

- Mark
 

bloodline

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Thanks for the replies. I have Basecamp and that is what I used to modify some existing routes i received via .gpx. I think the program sucks, basically.

And just to be clear, I'm going to list some terms as I understand them.

A route is a file with multiple track points and potentially multiple waypoints.

A track is basically nothing more than a graphical representation of where you have been or where you intend to go and contains NO "points" until you convert it with something.

Right?

So, what I'm trying to do is convert a google map "route", which is a track in garmin speak, to a route that i can share with GPS devices to provide turn by turn directions.

Why is that so hard?
 

bloodline

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Firefight911 said:
I do Google map stuff only for reference but create all my routes using MapSource.

What you describe seems to me as you only have a track and not a route. A track will only give you a brad crumb line to follow (for off road where roads don't exist) and a route will give you turn by turn.
And i suspect that when I imported a route made by someone else, that I have a setting that is off because the track points are in place on the roads and trails, but the line drawn on my gps does not follow those roads/trails. It's a straight line between track points. This is another problem...
 

bloodline

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Freebird said:
I feel your frustration and have had the same. I have a Garmin Zumo 665 and wanted to download maps as well. I finally used Mapquest and found the process fairly easy. I am sorry I can't specifically answer the question about the turn by turn instructions as I haven't used the map I downloaded yet (it's for the Alaska trip). I may go out and start on the route in the near future and see how it works and will let you know. Step away from the edge ::010::.
I HIGHLY suggest you make a route to something you know well- the liquor store, the grocery store, whatever. Try it. A lot.
 

bloodline

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And yet another question:

While we are talking basecamp, I can't figure out a way to use the maps that are on my gps on basecamp. In other words, I only have a decent basecamp map when my gps is plugged into the computer.
 

TEN YC

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Freebird said:
I finally used Mapquest and found the process fairly easy. I am sorry I can't specifically answer the question about the turn by turn instructions as I haven't used the map I downloaded yet (it's for the Alaska trip). I may go out and start on the route in the near future and see how it works and will let you know. Step away from the edge ::010::.

I use mapquest also (google maps simply did not work for me) but there is something important to point out. If you want to plot a very specific route, you must plot waypoints continually along the route. I found this out by trial and error. There may be different ways to do it, but this is simply what I do and it works. This ensures that you are on the route you want.

I soon found out that if I do not plot enough waypoints along my custom route, the GPS automatically calculated its own way to get from point A to point B that may not necessarily be the path you wanted. To clarify, the GPS will not follow the highlighted route on mapquest if you download the file. What it will do is simply download the start and stop points and do its own thing in between. I found that dragging and dropping the highlighted route on the map was pointless as this information was not used by the GPS. That is where the waypoints come in. If I plot them out to where there is almost no other option between the points, the GPS will do the route I want. Obviously this only works on recognized roads.

Again, I'm no GPS expert, and there may be better ways to do this. But I have done this numerous times and it just works for me.
 

markjenn

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I take a shot at this....

Broadly speaking, both tracks and routes are paths on the earth's surface you can follow. On the Garmin systems, the difference is more/less is that a route is a sequence of "via points" (which may be "waypoints" - more on this later) that the route has to go through while a track is a set of bread crumbs laid down by the GPS as it navigates.

A "direct route" is one that simply draws straight lines between via points in sequenc. An "auto-route" is one in which the application or GPS uses some sort of optimization algorithm to find a road path that goes through the via points in sequence.

The route that is built from a given set of via points will vary from application to application and GPS to GPS depending on route preferences and priorities. Both the application (e.g., Google Maps or Basecamp) or the GPS will typically have a "routing preferences" section where you can define what you want to optimize with the route and what you want to avoid. (As an aside, I have found routing to be totally unpredictable when you start setting unusual preferences or start using avoids. For example, the GPS will happily route you 500 miles out of your way to avoid a $0.50 bridge toll if you tell it to avoid toll roads.)

Tracks are more like the breadcrumbs in Hansel and Gretel. They're typically made by actually driving along and having the GPS lay down breadcrumbs as you travel. At pre-defined intervals (either by time or distance), the GPS will note your current location and add the point to the track. When you're done, you have a breadcrumb record of where you've been. Tracks will typically have many more points in them than a route since the GPS marks a location at intervals whether it is needed to or not. A route between two points on a major highway may have only two via points (beginning and end), while a track of the same path may have thousands of intermediate points every mile or two.

You can navigate either a route or a track stored in your GPS, but you do it differently. For a route, you typically "activate" the route, and the GPS will provide you guidance as you drive to stay on the route. For an "auto route" the GPS find a path through the road network that goes through the via points in the route - this is often where the route you had on your computer and the route in the GPS do not compute exactly the same, which is a huge source of confusion to many users. You can minimize this problem by including sufficient via points that constrain the optimization to be similar and by making sure you use the same preferences on both the computer and the GPS. Some GPSs (e.g., the Zumos) seem to match up better - I think they use extra information in the route between the via points you've defined to do a better job matching the routes. BTW, not all maps support auto-routing. If you're using routes on a map that doesn't, you have to use direct routes.

Navigating a track is simpler - you just display the track on the screen and do what you need to do to follow it. The track display simply draws a straight line between the points defining the track, but because the points are typically close together, you are never too far from the track. But there is no guarantee that there will be a point where you need to make a turn, so there is more trail-error and intuition involved in track following. With auto-routes, you get explicit turn-by-turn guidance since the GPS reconciles the underlying road network and the route.

Typically, routes are more suitable for road navigation and tracks more suitable for backwoods navigation. There are applications on the net that convert back and forth between tracks and routes with mixed results.

On Garmin systems, a "via point" is a point in an route that forces a route to go through the point. When you're building a route and move it around, via points are added as necessary to constrain the route to go through the places you want to go. Via points are strictly a route concept - a point on a route to force the route to go through it.

A waypoint is something you define as a location you have interest in (e.g., a gas station, a landmark, etc.) You can name them, give them symbols, etc. You can include a waypoint in a route in which case it is a via point for that route. But you can build a route with just via points.

When you transfer a route between the PC and the GPS, all that is typically transferred explicitly is the via point sequence. The GPS builds the actual route when you navigate it. As I said before, this leads to discrepancies. Some Garmin GPSs appear to also transfer "hidden via points" to reduce this problem of routes in the computer not matching routes on the GPS, but I know my 60-series does not.

You can use applications like Google Maps and Streets and Trips to build routes, export to GPX files, open these files in programs like MapSource and Basecamp, and then transfer the routes to the GPS. But you're going through lots of translation steps and it takes some trial/error to find out what works with your particular systems.

I've tried to build routes in Google Maps before, but the system is so flacky and bug-ridden, I usually give up so I can't help you much there. (For serious route-building - not just typing in two addresses and asking for directions - I hate Google Maps with a serious passion.) I do like S&T though and have used it successfully for route building. But mainly, I just bite the bullet and use MapSource or Basecamp. I do agree that the learning curve of these applications is very steep though and they're hardly paradigms of good application design. (But then again, neither is Google Maps.) But I would try and do some simple things with them to get routes to work on your GPS before adding in the complications of importing GPX files.

You mentioned difficultly getting to the maps on your GPS. As I understand it, Garmin sells maps on DVD, built-in to the GPS, and on memory cards. If you don't get the DVD version, you can't use the GPS maps on the PC.

It helps if you have reasonable expectations of how simple this should be with current technology. Building sophisticated routes on the PC, getting them with fidelity to the GPS, and navigation is not child's play. I've been doing it for a decade and it still trips me up now and then.

Hope this helps,

- Mark
 

AlexV

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Quick tip. If your GPS device has a "walking" or "bicycle" route function change it to that before calculating the route. The device should calculate the route over unpaved roads and the like. Of course, this only works if the trails are represented on the map you are using.

AlexV
 

markjenn

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AlexV said:
Quick tip. If your GPS device has a "walking" or "bicycle" route function change it to that before calculating the route. The device should calculate the route over unpaved roads and the like. Of course, this only works if the trails are represented on the map you are using.
Worth a try, but my experience is that the routing gets so wild, these types of preferences are almost unusable. They'll send you 400 miles out of your way to avoid 100' of a major road. And route you down roads that exist in the map database, but haven't been used for 50 years. The map databases are often decades out of date and/or riddled with bugs.

- Mark
 

RidingUpandDown

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bloodline said:
...
I'm in GPS hell. I'm so ready to throw them all away and just stay lost. Seriously.
...
I really hate all this stuff. Someone please help me before I go buy a road atlas and throw all this sh!t away.
BL, Join the club. ::010:: Probably like many here, as relates to GPS 'stuff', I had hair once and pulled most of it out trying to find and then make sense of the A: lack of available/useful vendor-read GARMIN- documentation-pitiful and B: spurious variety of forum/internet-based help and tutorials on GPS 'stuff' that's out there. And still after hrs of reading and practice feel I have only scratched the surface.

I have a ZUMO 220 and so have found ways to make it do what I want, which typically is to ‘follow the Route I created’ in MapSource(prefer as seems to be more documentation/tutorials) and download to the GPS, then want the bike/GPS to follow My Route or .gpx files/routes shared by other inmates that I download e.g. often back roads and/or dirt roads.

On the Garmin I go into the SETTINGS and set RECALCULATION MODE to OFF or PROMPTED, as well as set ROUTE PREFERENCE to SHORTER DISTANCE or OFF ROAD. Otherwise the Garmin is Always trying to to get me to the destination by following its pre-set/default factory algorithms/intelligence; and not mine. ::005::

I alao set Route Preferences when creating Routes in MapSource. Some of the best info I’ve found is here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413519

Devices and users' needs are different so It’s hard to get/give exact directions, but in general I find that if I do a Bing or Google search on

"site:any web site” “item to search for”

e.g. site:www.advrider.com recalculate or site:www.advrider.com mapsource tutorial

this should bring up a bunch of links/tutorials to dig into.

hth, d ::001::







 

bloodline

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Thank you very much to those of you that have taken the time to respond. i'm going to check out a few of your suggestions before I add (or subtract) any more to this thread.
 

bloodline

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I've made a significant breakthrough.

I've managed to use Google maps to make a few routes, which is precisely what I set out to do.

Here's what I've discovered:

I'm a google+ member. I don't know if you have to be Google+, but you certainly have to have a google account and be signed in for this to work.

In google maps, click "my places". From there, create a new "map", or route as we think of it.

Save the map to "My places" when you are done.

Now, you will see some very small, light blue, links under the maps you have saved. One is KML. Click it.

You are now downloading a .kml file.

I used gpx2kml.com to convert the .kml to a .gpx.

I then emailed the .gpx to gpsimport@motionX.com. They sent a link to my iphone and that imported the route to Motion X. Bingo. Worked perfectly.

I then copied the .gpx file to my Nuvi. Bingo. Worked perfectly.

For the sake of discussion, the test I used was my route to work. It's 11 miles on about 6-8 different roads. The google maps created route was 75 "points".

I also opened the .gpx in basecamp to check it out. Shows 2 waypoints- my home and my office, and it shows a Route with 75 track points. Bingo!

Now, anyone feel free to add to this, but I feel this version works pretty well. You have the speed of google maps and the ability to toggle between road maps, streetview (awesome for identifying suspected dirt roads) and satellite views. You can also easily share the maps (routes) you create via google+ and other ways. And, since all of your "maps" are saved in my places, you have them anywhere you can log on to google.
 

bloodline

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Again, thank you to the members that were kind enough to help in this thread. Without you, I might have sold all this fancy crap and bought a chopper.
 
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