Engine appears to be pinging

[Ishirock]

Just got back from an awesome trip out west from WY to OR via MT, ID, WA and my Tenere ran flawless. Before I left I adjusted the CO sensors to 7 per the forum for western altitude. I also did the TBS which worked wonders on the blurble off the bottom. Anyway, now that I'm back in Ohio and riding solo without all the camp gear my scoot appears to be pinging when I flog the throttle during low to mid range until the engine gets in the 190> temp range. Before I reset the CO adjusters I thought I would throw this out their and see what the experts have to say. I did refill the gas tank to make sure it wasn't a bad batch of gas. Where should I set the CO adjustment for Ohio approx 1K above sea level?

Cheers,

 

[20valves]

My non-expert advice is to stop fiddling with it. It's fuel injected, you don't have to "rejet" from one region to the other. I've had mine from 600' to 12,800' and have never touched a thing and it has always run great.

 

[markjenn]

I agree with the above in general, but if the bike is pinging in routine day-to-day operation, this doesn't sound normal. My experience is that you have to really aggravate things to get a S10 to ping on premium fuel. Which leads to my next questions.... when you say you flog the throttle at low-RPM, how low? And are you running premium fuel?

If you don't mind the trouble, resetting the CO settings back to stock would be interesting.

- Mark

 

[Don in Lodi]

What are your rpm's like when you're 'flogging'? If you're short shifting and not getting the revs up you will ping. You can flog it all you want if you don't shift before 4000 rpm.

 

[Dallara]

My non-expert advice is to stop fiddling with it. It's fuel injected, you don't have to "rejet" from one region to the other. I've had mine from 600' to 12,800' and have never touched a thing and it has always run great.

::026::

Maybe somehow I'm just one of the *lucky* ones, but then again I was one of the *lucky* ones who didn't seem to have the "surging" many talked about with BMW 1150 Oilheads, either.

Even before I had my ECU re-flashed I never had any "pinging" issues with my S-10, and that was from sea level to any altitude, and there were times I ran it on plain ol' 87-octane regular gas. Nick Sanders didn't seem to have any detonation or pre-ignition issues with his S-10 in 52,000 miles of running it bone-stock, from Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego repeatedly, through just about every condition imaginable... and when it was torn-down afterward the engine looked literally brand-new internally. I've run mine pretty hard in my 21,000+ miles of ownership, and though the engine makes a fair amount of various noises - let's face it, it's not the *quietest* mill out there - real, verifiable, true "pinging" (as the result of detonation) is never one I've heard, even in ambient temperatures of well over 100 degrees under heavy loads. I think Yamaha has done a great job of making the S-10 and its engine management pretty versatile when comes to fuel octane or quality, altitude, temperature, or load, and quite often fiddling with the CO settings, etc. do more harm than good.

Hard as it may be for some to believe, I actually find myself in agreement with MarkJenn here... Set the CO settings back to stock as see if you notice a difference. IMHO, if it really is "pinging" then it's either really bad, *BAD* gas or you have some other problem... Maybe one requiring a trip to the dealer for evaluation if necessary.

But then maybe you might simply need to ::021::

Just my two centavos... YMMV.

Dallara



~

 

[autoteach]

two questions, what is the mileage? Have you done plugs?

 

[Ishirock]

OK, thanks for all the replies. This AM I adjusted my CO settings back to zero for my daily commute, problem still exists. Only difference I noticed is it doesn't pull as hard as it did with the CO adjusted to 7. Still curious what the best setting for Ohio is. If you haven't tried this, you need to. Good advice even if I'm only a one star newbie. ::015::

I payed close attention on my ride in today. The term pinging is probably not the best way to describe what is happening. It is more like an engine knock and it happens around 3K -3.5K rpm when I go wide open (flog, WFO) from a rolling start in first gear from around 1.5-2K rpm. Happens in the lower gears (1-3) as that is when the engine is in the 3K-3.5k rpm range.

I have approx 8K miles on my S10 with original plugs.

Thanks,

 

[markjenn]

I go wide open (flog, WFO) from a rolling start in first gear from around 1.5-2K rpm.

I'm not sure what you problem is but it is very hard on an engine to be whacking it open to WFO from 1.5K RPM. My experience on the S10 is that it feels like lugging to give it full throttle at anything less than about 3.5K. It is about the same with most big twins.

- Mark

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I'm not sure what you problem is but it is very hard on an engine to be whacking it open to WFO from 1.5K RPM. My experience on the S10 is that it feels like lugging to give it full throttle at anything less than about 3.5K. It is about the same with most big twins.

- Mark

::026:: I can't image going to full throttle from 1.5/2.0. To me that seems like the definition of lugging an engine. I might consider going WOT at 3, but I'm more likely to wait until closer to 4. Never looked, but I doubt I have the clutch level fully out by 1.5.

Don't know for sure what you're experiencing, but in the scenario described I can't say I'm surprised the bike is giving unhappy sounds.

 

[Z06]

I payed close attention on my ride in today. The term pinging is probably not the best way to describe what is happening. It is more like an engine knock and it happens around 3K -3.5K rpm when I go wide open (flog, WFO) from a rolling start in first gear from around 1.5-2K rpm. Happens in the lower gears (1-3) as that is when the engine is in the 3K-3.5k rpm range.

I have approx 8K miles on my S10 with original plugs.

Thanks,
[/quote

Mine does what seems from your description to be same thing. I would describe it as spark knock. Like one ping is getting in before ECU catchs it. Not going to worry unless I start hearing more than one knock at a time.
BTY Wide open in first gear at 1.5-2K RPM is sure as hell not lugging it. WFO at 1.5-2K RPM in 4-6 gear is lugging.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

BTY Wide open in first gear at 1.5-2K RPM is sure as hell not lugging it. WFO at 1.5-2K RPM in 4-6 gear is lugging.

Well, whatever you call it, for me I don't do much of anything down at that low a range. Years of riding a DL1000 taught me to rarely run below 4K, and never whack the throttle below that. The Tenere does respond significantly better below 4K mark, but I doubt I ever run the S10 below 2.5K. But maybe that's just me.

 

[markjenn]

BTY Wide open in first gear at 1.5-2K RPM is sure as hell not lugging it. WFO at 1.5-2K RPM in 4-6 gear is lugging.

I disagree. The engine doesn't know what gear you're in - all it knows is that the throttle plates are wide open at 1.5K RPM and it is being asked to develop full power at this RPM, something it is loathe to do. Whether you're in 1st or 6th will affect the duration of the lugging and how quickly it can climb out of the RPM hole it is in, but regardless it is definitely lugging.

- Mark

 

[snakebitten]

I don't flog it down around 2-3k, but I enjoy this bike in that range in really tight riding at minor throttle openings.

Note: without the clutch-mod switch "closed", these low rpms aren't as enjoyable. (T or S) The stock fueling is too fluffy that low.

 

[RED CAT]

Ya. Do the Clutch Mod and that should go away. ::001::

 

[autoteach]

the short story is that you cant go WFO in 1-3 gear without clutch switch mod. The fact that it is pinging makes that more curious. I am not sure...

 

[~TABASCO~]

I disagree. The engine doesn't know what gear you're in - all it knows is that the throttle plates are wide open at 1.5K RPM and it is being asked to develop full power at this RPM, something it is loathe to do. Whether you're in 1st or 6th will affect the duration of the lugging and how quickly it can climb out of the RPM hole it is in, but regardless it is definitely lugging.

- Mark

I believe this bike does know what gear your in. Its also 'fly by wire' and the ECU is in full control of the throttle plates in the throttle body's. Wide open in all the gears has been looked at by Yamaha and the ECU is in control at those RPM's... (all the time) Its not like the old days of the cable pulling open the plate, and lifting the needle. ( as you know )

I wonder if this is TC or even the 1-3 gear restriction kicking in more so than "normal" ?

For the original poster, are you in TC1 / TC2 / OFF S or T ? Are you feeling this 'ping' or hearing a 'ping' ?

I agree with most of you on not lugging the engine, Etc at a certain RPM.. But unlike the old carb bikes, on this bike your throttle hand is 'asking' the ECM to do what you want... Within its parameters it will give you only what Yamaha has programed into the ECM that is a 'safe' level of performance at any given RPM. Again, unlike the carbs where you can go wide open with an accelerator pump, and big jets. Then the motor is eating a ton of fuel down low and being lugged... On a carb bike thats not good..

IMOP, I dont think you can damage the bike by riding it the way the first poster described. It might not be the best, but I dont think anything is wrong.. The ECM is in full control of the situation, and will only allow what Yamaha wants to have happen.....

Im thinking that the "ping" is more of a reaction to the TC or the restriction in the first three gears. Maybe its more of a reaction from the ECM to 'tweak' timing / restriction / fuel to keep the bike in a 'safe' mode while the rider is "asking" for more... Again, the ECM is in control here.

 

[Don in Lodi]

The stock fueling is too fluffy that low.

Nice. I'll have to add that one... ::26::

 

[markjenn]

I believe this bike does know what gear your in. Its also 'fly by wire' and the ECU is in full control of the throttle plates in the throttle body's. Wide open in all the gears has been looked at by Yamaha and the ECU is in control at those RPM's... (all the time) Its not like the old days of the cable pulling open the plate, and lifting the needle. ( as you know )

Lugging is simply defined as making power demands of the engine at such a low RPM that it doesn't run smoothly. Full throttle at 1.5K RPM in my book is well outside the normal operating envelope of the S10's engine regardless of what gear it is in. I don't think Yamaha's ECU has any ability to intervene and reduce throttle to protect the engine from lugging. This sort of abuse can have long-term consequences as it creates loads on engine components that are beyond their design specs.

- Mark

 

[Tremor38]

Lugging is simply defined as making power demands of the engine at such a low RPM that it doesn't run smoothly. Full throttle at 1.5K RPM in my book is well outside the normal operating envelope of the S10's engine regardless of what gear it is in. I don't think Yamaha's ECU has any ability to intervene and reduce throttle to protect the engine from lugging. This sort of abuse can have long-term consequences as it creates loads on engine components that are beyond their design specs.

- Mark

+1. The ECU 'might' be wise to that sort of situation if this bike had a knock sensor, but since does not, it is operating a bit blind in that respect. If even if had a knock sensor, the authority to retard timing always has a set limit (witness the burnt heads on knock sensor-equpped, BMW 1200cc 4-valve boxer engines.

 

[hANNAbONE]

shift the thing at 4000 from here on out.

the 3000-3500 rpm "rattle" could be construed a "ping" - it isn't

it is an almost inherent trait of this mill.

perhaps you should also do the fuse mod on the clutch...it has quieted my rattle significantly.

YMMV.

(*in my humble opinion, run the crap outta her...redline it with premium gas and throw a bottle of "techron" in it too.*)