Electronic VS regular suspension.

[LJM]

Not a fad. The ES is a great feature. I just found another great advantage for it. On my daily commute I always use soft mode there's a stretch crossing the Golden Gate Bridge into Marin County where there will be cross winds and gusts of 20 - 40mph and traveling at 70-80mph on the bike the wind pushes the bike around more than I like so while coming over the bridge I decided that stiffer suspension might help in the wind 2 seconds later while still on the bike I had stiffer suspension and it made a huge difference in how the cross wind affected the bike. Got out the wind and back to soft for a nice cushy ride home. I would never in hundred years get off my bike and adjust the suspension for differing road conditions. I've had 3 ES bikes a BMW, Ducati MS & the ST the Yamaha ES is far better then the other 2 it's simple and it works. ES is here to stay and for bikes multi purpose bikes it only makes sense.

 

[jbrown]

... crossing the Golden Gate Bridge into Marin County where there will be cross winds and gusts of 20 - 40mph and traveling at 70-80mph on the bike...

I'm pretty sure LJM doesn't routinely go 80 across the bridge.
For those not familiar with the area, the posted speed limit on the bridge is 45mph, and it's got lots of cars on it at commute time.

 

[MrVvrroomm]

My wife's '15 non-ES rides substantially firmer, rougher than my '14 ES. That's with the rear pre-load at it's lowest setting.

I was actually shocked when I took hers for a ride.

I normally run mine at rider + bags, normal w/+1 damping

 

[hoak]

I'm a contrarian too; I like the idea of electronically adjustable suspension, would likely even get it on my next Super Ténéré, but the full context of the cost, benefits, and liabilities should be considered, and all of the latter haven't been discussed here...

The benefits are obvious, it's handy and is even in keeping with the design intent of the machine: a fatigued long range adventure rider encounters new terrain with many miles before he sleeps can make a simple adjustment and continue...

The obvious liabilities of: cost, complexity, weight, maintenance cost, unknown reliability and modes of failure (Could the controller reset your settings without warning you? If the motors fry or short; are the damper adjusters jammed?) are unknown and valid considerations that everyone should weigh.

Other liabilities include: many that have or will purchase Super Ténéré may not have the knowledge or skill to properly adjust the suspension and putting it under the press of a button could be as much hazard as a boon, as well the skills of adapting to multiple complex suspension profiles could present a hazard to the less experienced rider (even some experienced but over confident and ambitious riders), and the serious long range adventure rider may not want the baggage of untested hardware that has potential to be a day wrecker.

Larger issues than convenience also present for many: the stock suspension's high speed damping is too high (and there's no cheap or easy adjustment for this) for many the stock spring rates on both ES and non ES bikes are not ideal -- in fact they seem to serve a very narrow curve of 'average' that looks more like the the mathematical median, and the high limits of damping adjustment range are not that useful.

A case here can be made that easy adjustment may lead to attempts to compensate for default suspension design deficits and range limits where the tyro or even well intended tweaker sets things where they really not only won't make the suspension perform better and will compromise the stability and performance of the bike.

My personal feeling is that the Super Ténéré needs a suspension revision that takes all of this into account, and the ES feature needs some long term testing to know how it holds up and what happens when things go wrong. But in terms of right and wrong there's a valid case for going with both ES or not going with it.

 

[fredz43]

Other liabilities include: many that have or will purchase Super Ténéré may not have the knowledge or skill to properly adjust the suspension and putting it under the press of a button could be as much hazard as a boon, as well the skills of adapting to multiple complex suspension profiles could present a hazard to the less experienced rider (even some experienced but over confident and ambitious riders), and the serious long range adventure rider may not want the baggage of untested hardware that has potential to be a day wrecker.

Larger issues than convenience also present for many: the stock suspension's high speed damping is too high (and there's no cheap or easy adjustment for this) for many the stock spring rates on both ES and non ES bikes are not ideal -- in fact they seem to serve a very narrow curve of 'average' that looks more like the the mathematical median, and the high limits of damping adjustment range are not that useful.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, hoak. If I may, I would like to share my thoughts based on a 34,000 mile 2012 S10 with over $3,000 in quality aftermarket suspension and then having a stock 2014 ES are that your concern about a less experienced rider creating a hazard with the ES adjustments will not happen, as all adjustments still fall within a range that will not result in a hazardous suspension, as the controls will not let you set it out of range by that amount. Do you think Yamaha would design such a system that could result in hazardous results? Contrarily, someone may be able misadjust a manual setup, as there are only mechanical limits to the range of adjustment. I don't think you could get that far out with the OEM suspension, but my Ohlins setup on my 12 had lots more adjustability and I guess it would be easier to screw up the setting on aftermarket manual suspension on than on OEM.

I think we have all discovered that the OEM non ES suspension suffers from too much compression damping on the front and too weak of a spring on the back. I don't believe that we have seen those same complaints about the ES, that has both different spring rates and different damping than the non ES and those of us that have actually put miles on the ES (over 14,000 in my case) rather than theorize are generally very happy with the results. With my 5 year warranty coverage that my YES provides, I'll take my chances that Yamaha designed this system with the same reliability I have found in their ABS, UBS, TCS, engine drive modes, etc ,etc that I experienced with my 2012.

Just my thoughts and they are worth exactly what you paid for them. ;D

 

[Jw18]

Boy, you guys have me kicking myself for not trying harder to find a leftover 2014 ES.

Oh well. I ended up getting my 2014 non ES for $8350 out of pocket with my trade of my 09 FJR with 85k miles on it.

I couldn't find an ES for anywhere close to this deal.

 

[hoak]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, hoak. If I may, I would like to share my thoughts based on a 34,000 mile 2012 S10 with over $3,000 in quality aftermarket suspension and then having a stock 2014 ES are that your concern about a less experienced rider creating a hazard with the ES adjustments will not happen, as all adjustments still fall within a range that will not result in a hazardous suspension, as the controls will not let you set it out of range by that amount. Do you think Yamaha would design such a system that could result in hazardous results? Contrarily, someone may be able misadjust a manual setup, as there are only mechanical limits to the range of adjustment. I don't think you could get that far out with the OEM suspension, but my Ohlins setup on my 12 had lots more adjustability and I guess it would be easier to screw up the setting on aftermarket manual suspension on than on OEM.

I think we have all discovered that the OEM non ES suspension suffers from too much compression damping on the front and too weak of a spring on the back. I don't believe that we have seen those same complaints about the ES, that has both different spring rates and different damping than the non ES and those of us that have actually put miles on the ES (over 14,000 in my case) rather than theorize are generally very happy with the results. With my 5 year warranty coverage that my YES provides, I'll take my chances that Yamaha designed this system with the same reliability I have found in their ABS, UBS, TCS, engine drive modes, etc ,etc that I experienced with my 2012.

Just my thoughts and they are worth exactly what you paid for them. ;D

I think your comments on the non ES 2014-15 are spot on (as far as my experience with my 2014 non ES so far), I'd add that the rear spring may be too weak or not progressive enough depending on need.

As far as not being able to adjust ES out of a safe range; if the damping range is the same as the non ES model, and you don't have to stop the bike to change settings, there are scenarios where an inexperienced rider can get themselves in trouble; you don't have to look any further then motorcycle accident statistics to see the margin for error, safety and smarts is not that large.

I know those of us that have decades and hundreds of thousands of miles behind us, ES on-the-fly tweak-ability isn't going to be a error prone or life threatening issue, but for a less experienced rider just giving the MFD too much attention at an inappropriate moment could become a cosmic event...for him...

My premise is the same as yours, and as I said up front I'll probably get ES on my next Super Ténéré, but for now most of the information we have is anecdotal, subjective, and short term; I'd like more facts and to see what the long term reveals.

 

[fredz43]

As far as not being able to adjust ES out of a safe range; if the damping range is the same as the non ES model,

They are not the same, either front or back. Example, the forks control compression damping with the left fork only and rebound with the right fork only, just as my Ohlins forks did.Spring rates front and back are different than non ES, so damping will have to be different. The ES shock has a very light spring, about 450 pounds/inch compared to the non ES that is about 740. They really are completely different systems.

 

[V35A]

Does anyone know if the ES and non-ES models have the same rear suspension components and geometry? When comparing spring rates on different bikes you need to take into account the effects of any suspension geometry variations.

Automotive engineers refer to the Motion Ratio (MR) as the ratio of the damper movement to the wheel displacement. The effective spring rate at the wheel (the "wheel rate") is what we really want to know. If you know the MR, the wheel rate is the spring rate times the MR squared.

WR = SR * MR^2

 

[spam16v]

This is my forever bike (famous last words...) I service my suspension and would prefer not to pay for repairs/replacement on this expensive crap. My forks and Penske are going to Traxxion and after that its oil and seals as needed annually.

 

[Rasher]

I have a few thoughts, although I would say for most people the ES is a no brainer, but the things to consider are:

* Are you likely to keep it until it needs a new shock - and is this cost crippling :question:
* There are a few more parts that could go wrong and need maintenance (but with the complexity of the rest of the bike is it worth worrying about :question
* Will the ES be easier to sell later on (I would say it would)
* It is still an OE shock and will be well behind the quality of many aftermarket items, so if your inclined to upgrade suspension the extra cost of an ES model could be wasted.

I like great suspension and tend to fit Ohlins / Wilburs to my bikes so I would probably go Non-ES, but I think as 99% of people stick with OE suspension for them the ES is a great choice, especially for those who do not like to fiddle with things as they will benefit the most.

Even with Non ES bikes I will play with suspension and find good solo / two-up / bumpy road settings and do not mind the 30 seconds it takes to adjust, but I know many people who seem terrified of adjusting anything as if the manufacturer set the bike to the Holy Grail of setup for them and their riding style, these people are far more likely to press a button that tells them this is for two-up where they would never had dared add some pre-load manually.

 

[Tyke]

I have a few thoughts, although I would say for most people the ES is a no brainer, but the things to consider are:

* Are you likely to keep it until it needs a new shock - and is this cost crippling :question:
* There are a few more parts that could go wrong and need maintenance (but with the complexity of the rest of the bike is it worth worrying about :question
* Will the ES be easier to sell later on (I would say it would)
* It is still an OE shock and will be well behind the quality of many aftermarket items, so if your inclined to upgrade suspension the extra cost of an ES model could be wasted.

I like great suspension and tend to fit Ohlins / Wilburs to my bikes so I would probably go Non-ES, but I think as 99% of people stick with OE suspension for them the ES is a great choice, especially for those who do not like to fiddle with things as they will benefit the most.

Even with Non ES bikes I will play with suspension and find good solo / two-up / bumpy road settings and do not mind the 30 seconds it takes to adjust, but I know many people who seem terrified of adjusting anything as if the manufacturer set the bike to the Holy Grail of setup for them and their riding style, these people are far more likely to press a button that tells them this is for two-up where they would never had dared add some pre-load manually.

Good points Rasher ::026:: for years I managed without any electronic wizardry on my bikes suspension, in fact if I'm honest I rarely adjusted the settings on any of my bikes after the initial familiarisation period.

I hope that my ES (ZE) won't go wrong and if it does it will be covered by a warranty

I've recently begun using the different settings on my ES more frequently and its clear to 'feel' the difference between different settings, however I do ride on roads only with no off road activity, so I can't comment on that aspect

Aftermarket systems are, as you say, generally much better than OEM units and are priced accordingly, the only off the shelf bike that I ever owned with superb OEM fitment suspension was an Aprillia RSVR which had Ohlins set up as standard

 

[iClint]

I'm happy to be an early adopter.

To address something that had been said:

The on the fly tweaking is limited to 3 presets that can only be "tweaked" while the bike isn't moving.

The only way the bike could be adjusted to a dangerous setup would be if the rider ignored all the warning signs before eventually crashing and having said that yamaha just haven't allowed enough adjustment to really do anything wrong.

The controls on the left switch housing are designed to deter use while riding, but making any adjustments to suspension, changing or setting your cruise speed or turning on the heated grips is no harder or distracting than using your indicators. If someone was to crash and their reason was looking at the MFD or changing their suspension setting that would say more about the rider than the bike.

Is the ES reliable? agreed it's too early to say but the forum isn't flooded with complaints/problems and if you buy an ES it is likely brand new and/or under warranty. So unless you are planning a solo circumnavigation of the globe I don't think equipment that isn't time tested is really an issue.

My guess is just like all the other systems on the bike if something fails e.g. ABS, UBS, TCS the bike still chugs along so I doubt the ES would be any different you'd just lose that functionality, hardly a day breaker.

Today I enjoyed a day of riding with friends, just touring on the tarmac. On my previous bike a VFR1200F it would have been a day of either bone jarring bumps on the rough stuff but some sweet handling in the turns or a soft cushy ride over the bumps, but some not so great handling (Yes I could find a setup somewhere in the middle but thats still a compromise). The ES allowed the best of both worlds with on the fly adjustment to my predetermined presets as the conditions dictated, and that is why I would say ES V's Standard suspension the ES wins hands down.

::021::

 

[LJM]

I'm pretty sure LJM doesn't routinely go 80 across the bridge.
For those not familiar with the area, the posted speed limit on the bridge is 45mph, and it's got lots of cars on it at commute time.

Hell no I'm not Tom Cruise ! It's 70-80 up the Waldo grade untill Strawberry then it's lane splitting speeds all the way home. Lucky yo hit 45 mph on GG bridge in the afternoon

 

[dudley]

I had the opportunity to ride a bike (name withheld to protect the innocent) with a lot of electronics. I was to keep it for a few days and lo and behold it spent most of the time in my garage. The electronics failed and I was with out the use of it. Lucky for me it failed in my garage and not out on the road somewhere. I thought I screwed it up but came to find out the computer failed. So, as a result I am now re-thinking ES vs manual suspension...knowing me, I will buy what ever presents itself.
Dudley

 

[hambonee]

I went from a 2013 GS with the electronic suspension to a Tenere without. For me it is a long term cost thing. If you do off road(and I do) the shocks are going to need work(especially if you load it down) and the costs go up dramatically on the ES versions compaired to the standard old non electric. I also found that I rarely needed to adjust the suspension all that often and the bike had to be stopped anyways on the BMW to do so so why not just save some money and pain in the long run and go the safer route. Works for me at least... ::021::

 

[Defekticon]

I test rode an ES prior to buying my non-es and I only regret the on the fly adjustability for when my wife gets on the bike. I have to (Oh so inconveniently...) reach down and turn the knob to account for the extra rider. I'm not sure it would have been worth the extra cost. (~1500 in my case). Plus I didn't care for the red, I wanted the blue something fierce. That said it's a neat feature and probably worth it to some, but really I couldn't tell the difference, and it wasn't something I even wanted to mess with while riding.

 

[MNs10]

I went from a 2013 GS with the electronic suspension to a Tenere without. For me it is a long term cost thing. If you do off road(and I do) the shocks are going to need work(especially if you load it down) and the costs go up dramatically on the ES versions compaired to the standard old non electric. I also found that I rarely needed to adjust the suspension all that often and the bike had to be stopped anyways on the BMW to do so so why not just save some money and pain in the long run and go the safer route. Works for me at least... ::021::

I hope that short sale on a newish bike to by another will allow your long term cost issue to overcome your quick loss, but a shame you didn't learn about your BMW. I've tested a few systems and found the BMW the easiest to use... You can switch the throttle maps (which have their own suspension settings and adjustments within those settings), the valving (soft/normal/hard), turn traction control on or off while having ABS on or off, and turn off ABS to the rear wheel while leaving it on for the front all while moving.

About ES suspensions...I think they are great. You can take some nasty pot holed road short cut to your favorite twisty section, then go off-road and have a suspension set up pretty damn well for all of it with the push of a button. Awesome!

 

[Davesax36]

So I put Traxxion cartridges and a Penske on my Gen1 FZ1. Best thing I did. I put RaceTech springs and valving with Works shocks on my V-Max.... Again, the best thing that happened to that bike.
I posted in the suspension for big guys thread, but here's my dilemma. I'm used to upgrading to pretty nice stuff, but I think I would probably have to upgrade the spring on the ES to safely carry me and my not-small wife with camping gear. I will be 1-up a lot, but we'll be putting lots of miles on this bike together. I'm used to adjusting suspension for 2-up stuff from my other bikes. I have Oxford heated grips and/or I could just buy the factory ones if it came down to it for ease of control. The last thing I'm considering is that if the time comes when we've lost enough weight (already started) to need different spring rates, most high-end stuff can be rebuilt to accommodate that change.

I'm sure I'm not helping anyone else with the decision, but I need advice before I go plunk down a not-inconsequential amount of money.