ECU reflash - results only in this thread

[spasm]

Re: Re: ECU reflash - results only in this thread

Hi Tremor,

I don't recall what RPM it was at in 2nd @20 mph, as we had agreen on a 20 mPH test and I was only looking at the speedo. Easy enough to find out today, though.
I had seen that the TC light would come on during full throttle acceleration in 1st and 2nd, but never in higher gears, so didn't think it would have any effect in 6th from 50 MPH. In any case, we were both in the same setting.

I don't know how much affect the Akra or for that matter my balanced TB's with 3/4 turn out on the right had over the stock bike, as I had never done a similar test before the flash. The other rider said he rolled on first and as I was very slightly ahead and to the right of him when he rolled on, he could see that I rolled the throttle on after he did and yet jumped out ahead. He said his didn't seem to want to take full throttle at the 2500 RPM we were at while mine pulled away smoothly.

Again the bike seemed very fast to me in my solo full throttle acceleration tests after not riding it for over a month, so I was surprised with the comparo. As for it not being reflashed ,etc, I would have to see a similar comparo between a Euro Spec and USA spec bikes to draw any conclusions, but from AF1 Racing's top reputation among USA riders of all brands, I don't believe that they would have sent it back untouched. Another comparo that would be easier to arrange would be for a USA spec bike with Diapason flash vs stock and vs ECU U reflash.

Hi fred, i wasn't suggesting they hadn't done it, i was merely getting the point across, that it should be alot different, as mine was, all the bikes have the same power output standard USA or UK bike. If after the flash there's not much difference to a stock bike i would call them and ask why,

 

[fredz43]

Tremor, on the 6th gear power, mine rolled off quicker at 2500 RPM and got a jump, as the other bike hesitated. Once rolling a bit, the difference in distance between us stayed the same to almost top speed, so I don't know if there is actually a power difference. Moreso, it seems that mine was able to pull cleanly from that low RPM while the other bike hesitated. If we had tried the same test from a higher RPM, we may not have seen much difference. My butt dyno tells me that mine does pull better right of the bottom and even seems to feel better in T mode right off the bottom.

 

[RMac]

Fred, it may be that the difference in "usable" power is not actually big enough to make a significant difference in the kind of side by side testing you did? Whereas the power difference is enough to be really felt by the butt dyno...(?)

What I suspect makes differences for side by side testing like this is not only power difference, but the duration over which the power differential applies. One can probably conclude that your 6th gear S-mode roll-on test showed biggest difference because a)there is a power advantage in favour of your flashed bike vs your friends and b) this power difference was applied over greater period of time than for the other tests

For the T-mode tests there might not be a power differential at all. Meaning T-mode remains stock as claimed.

For the standing start and 2nd gear roll-on tests what ultimately matters is the amount of energy expended over the total time it took to perform the tests, in other words the average power over the duration of each test. In other words the avererage power difference between the bikes is maybe not so much during these tests. However, the instantaneous power available at any given rpm might be quite different.

Get my drift?

Anyway, just speculating, but food for thought...

 

[Blue_eyes]

Thanks Fred.

No doubt in my mind that AF1 flashed your ECU. I think there's a difference between U.S. and Euro Spec ECU's that we don't fully know the extent of yet..but we're getting there bit by bit. We all had the first clue when Desert Dave reported his U.S. spec bike felt much better, power-wise then the Euro spec demo he had ridden earlier.
There appears to be an OEM-ECU 6th gear power limitation from what you describe. This may be on all ECUs and will be interesting to look for on the Euro spec bikes as well.

All ECU's are the same, the only difference is the immobilizer. And in addition to that, Yamaha publishes the same power spec's for the bike globally.

 

[RMac]

He he, rode my bike to work again today. I rode in T-mode TCS1 all the way

I've hardly used T-mode before. Boy is it friendly and relaxing 8)

 

[fredz43]

All ECU's are the same, the only difference is the immobilizer. And in addition to that, Yamaha publishes the same power spec's for the bike globally.

Interesting. Where did you get the info that the only difference is the immobilizer? Not doubting, just asking. As for power specs, Yamaha could say that they all make X horsepower or torque,, which I am sure they do, but could still apply different restrictions in gears due to different regulations, before that max power is reached.

Edit, I hope that we are not drifting into the kind of discussions that should be on the other thread instead of the results thread.

 

[simmons1]

He he, rode my bike to work again today. I rode in T-mode TCS1 all the way

I've hardly used T-mode before. Boy is it friendly and relaxing 8)

+1

I have been using T-mode a lot as well since the Flash. Pre-Flash I left it in S all the time.

Last tank of gas I got 45 MPG.

 

[Dallara]

Interesting. Where did you get the info that the only difference is the immobilizer? Not doubting, just asking. As for power specs, Yamaha could say that they all make X horsepower or torque,, which I am sure they do, but could still apply different restrictions in gears due to different regulations, before that max power is reached.

Edit, I hope that we are not drifting into the kind of discussions that should be on the other thread instead of the results thread.

I think the "drifting" has already happened, and further discussions other than just results and ride evaluation reports should be in the other thread.

But as a quick note, we all already know that *ALL* the ECU's are not the same. There would be no need for some to have the *slot* milled into them if they are all the same. And as I recall, most of the companies advertising these re-flashes have not claimed great gains in *PEAK* power, but only that they remove the throttle butterfly and fueling restrictions in the lower- and mid-part of the rev range in the lower gears...

And for the most part all manufacturers publish the same power output for their bikes regardless of country, yet for decades it has been proven over and over that not all countries do actually get the same power output. Anybody else remember the Kawasaki ZX11/ZX12 "restrictions" from just a few years ago? Or the 1980 Honda CBX where the USA models had a totally different ignition advance unit (with a different part number) that chopped off the peak power, yet they still were advertised as having the same power as the 1979, as well as the rest of the world? Those are just a couple of examples, but there are a lot more...

Dallara



~

 

[Blue_eyes]

Interesting. Where did you get the info that the only difference is the immobilizer? Not doubting, just asking. As for power specs, Yamaha could say that they all make X horsepower or torque,, which I am sure they do, but could still apply different restrictions in gears due to different regulations, before that max power is reached.

Edit, I hope that we are not drifting into the kind of discussions that should be on the other thread instead of the results thread.

I inquired at my local dealer who was informed by Yamaha Europe http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/index.aspx which has it's headoffice here in The Netherlands.

My reason for asking them was because the ECU here in Europe costs approx EURO 1.3000,- = US$ 1.800,- in case the ECU got lost in the mail to/from Italy. In the US the ECU is way cheaper, but it does not have the immoblizer. I was informed that all ECU's globally are identical in terms of ECU program. The fact that the various providers of the flash (off-the-road, Diapason, ECU Unleashed, Motec) all offer the same service regardless of the origin of the ECU proves that all ECU's are programmed identical. If the OEM ECU's have different programs they would have experienced checksum error issues when flashing them with the same flash.

The fact that the ECU is slotted by ECU Unleashed does not imply that the OEM ECU program is any different.

 

[fredz43]

The fact that the ECU is slotted by ECU Unleashed does not imply that the OEM ECU program is any different.

Thank you for that feedback about info from Yamaha.

What do you mean about ECU being slotted by ECU Unleashed? If you mean physically slotted, as far as I know only one in the USA had any physical modifications done to it.

 

[Blue_eyes]

Thank you for that feedback about info from Yamaha.

What do you mean about ECU being slotted by ECU Unleashed? If you mean physically slotted, as far as I know only one in the USA had any physical modifications done to it.

I am referring/responding to Dallara's assertion:

I think the "drifting" has already happened, and further discussions other than just results and ride evaluation reports should be in the other thread.

But as a quick note, we all already know that *ALL* the ECU's are not the same. There would be no need for some to have the *slot* milled into them if they are all the same. And as I recall, most of the companies advertising these re-flashes have not claimed great gains in *PEAK* power, but only that they remove the throttle butterfly and fueling restrictions in the lower- and mid-part of the rev range in the lower gears...

And for the most part all manufacturers publish the same power output for their bikes regardless of country, yet for decades it has been proven over and over that not all countries do actually get the same power output. Anybody else remember the Kawasaki ZX11/ZX12 "restrictions" from just a few years ago? Or the 1980 Honda CBX where the USA models had a totally different ignition advance unit (with a different part number) that chopped off the peak power, yet they still were advertised as having the same power as the 1979, as well as the rest of the world? Those are just a couple of examples, but there are a lot more...

Dallara



~

 

[Desert Dave]

If you mean physically slotted, as far as I know only one in the USA had any physical modifications done to it.

Mine to. I've read of one other on this site, so that makes at least two.

 

[RMac]

OK, some initial fuel consumption data for Diapason flash plus stock Tenere.

First tank of fuel, mixed driving conditions, mainly at legalish speeds (of-course frequentish spurts), 3/4 of time operating in S-mode, 1/4 of time in T-mode, ambient temps -2C to +1C:

4.9L/100km indicated (~48.5 US mpg).

Based on last season I expect the fuel consumption to improve by 0.2L/100km when air temperatures get higher in the spring and summer. If this proves to be the case then I can say that the flash has not affected my fuel consumption noticeably.

 

[Yamaguy55]

Sort of on topic: Is AF1 the only USA provider for this? Sounds like my next project.

 

[simmons1]

Sort of on topic: Is AF1 the only USA provider for this? Sounds like my next project.

Look here:

http://ecunleashed.com/dealers/find-a-dealer/

 

[Yamaguy55]

Look here:

http://ecunleashed.com/dealers/find-a-dealer/

Thanks

 

[S_Palmer]

I got my ecu back from ECU unleashed last night went for the first ride today. First the good, starts good idles well, the hesatation off idle is gone in both modes. T mode is now more responsive throughout the rpm range and is closer to s mode in power and response.

The bad, either every one elses bike who has had this done was WAY more restricted than mine to begin with or they work for the reflash company or they are on crack. I can't feel ANY increase in power, the off idle problem was easy to ride around, my opinion, save your money I wish I had.

 

[fredz43]

When I got mine back from AF1 Racing, I had a tank full of 93 octane. In my comparison testing vs a stock bike, the big difference was roll on in 6th from 50 MPH, not so much when doing full throttle drag races. I had it reflashed for 85-90 and today I was able to put 4 gallons of 87 in it and it sure seems more responsive. Also previuosly I had been running with the CO at +2. When I put the ECU back in, I reset the CO to 0. I now have it back at +2. With that change and then putting in the octane that I had it reflashed for, it sure runs great in the midrange. It will lift the front wheel just rolling it on to WFO in first and second and if I snap it in second, it will go skyward. I feel that the big improvement is in midrange power, not top end.

I agree that T seems a lot closer to S now and I also still think the USA bikes are not as restricted as the Euro ones to begin with.

 

[jajpko]

I got my ecu back from ECU unleashed last night went for the first ride today. First the good, starts good idles well, the hesatation off idle is gone in both modes. T mode is now more responsive throughout the rpm range and is closer to s mode in power and response.

The bad, either every one elses bike who has had this done was WAY more restricted than mine to begin with or they work for the reflash company or they are on crack. I can't feel ANY increase in power, the off idle problem was easy to ride around, my opinion, save your money I wish I had.

That's too bad. Can you tell us what other mods you have done to the bike besides the flash? Also what octane you are using?

 

[S_Palmer]

That's too bad. Can you tell us what other mods you have done to the bike besides the flash? Also what octane you are using?

It's stock, running premium.