dumb ? Missing rear spoke, safe to ride ?

[markjenn]

As for cracking on cast wheels - my evidence is that it doesn't happen enough for it to be significant.

It does happen. Cracked wheels are legendary on several BMW models. But I don't have any hard data and I bet you don't either, so we're just trading anecdotal perceptions.

Believe me, I'm not anti cast wheel - I had them on my Strom and they took a beating without problem. And I don't think the S10's rear wheel is Yamaha's best effort.

In the final analysis, I think most riders prefer spoked for style, rather than functional, reasons.

- Mark

 

[kraigd]

Still no word from Yamaha delaer on what Yamaha is going to do. At this point I am hoping for a new rim, odds are I will be lucky to get a spoke. Still going to talk with my agent further and see what he has to say. He is very no BS. I did thread lock my spokes with 290 green. I think this is a good idea and what can be the down side. Still love my S10. Just hit 16k in 8 months. ::021::

 

[jajpko]

Still no word from Yamaha delaer on what Yamaha is going to do. At this point I am hoping for a new rim, odds are I will be lucky to get a spoke. Still going to talk with my agent further and see what he has to say. He is very no BS. I did thread lock my spokes with 290 green. I think this is a good idea and what can be the down side. Still love my S10. Just hit 16k in 8 months. ::021::

I'm not sure I understand. Did you use thread locker before, or after, you lost the spoke.?

 

[kraigd]

I lost the spoke before I used thread locker. I dont think this will happen again.

I'm not sure I understand. Did you use thread locker before, or after, you lost the spoke.?

 

[Kidder]

Still no word from Yamaha delaer on what Yamaha is going to do. At this point I am hoping for a new rim, odds are I will be lucky to get a spoke. Still going to talk with my agent further and see what he has to say. He is very no BS. I did thread lock my spokes with 290 green. I think this is a good idea and what can be the down side. Still love my S10. Just hit 16k in 8 months. ::021::

As a manufacturer, I would tell you to pound sand. This is a maintenance item. Since you didn't check the spokes, it's on you for the damage caused by a loose one. Sorry.

By the way, I'm the first person to post regarding this issue. Since I had the spoke issue, I have not had one problem since I check them at regular intervals. This is not a manufacturing issue. It is a maintenance issue.

 

[Toyboy]

Hello to all,
Wanted to weigh in a bit on the spoke issue that Yamaha says they do not have and never heard of. I had a spoke issue problem and got to call bullshit on the maintenance/versus manufacture issue. Been riding dual sports a really long time as well as dirt bikes. Been riding BMW's exclusively as far as dual sports go and everything under the sun as far as dirt bikes go.
I had the exact same thing happen. Lost a nibble spoke bent and gouged the swing arm and damaged the rim by chaffing the one edge pretty good for about 6 inches. I checked my spokes at aprox 600 miles and the 4000 mark. This occurred at 7200 miles. Just how often do I need to check the stinking things? Oddly enough I never had to check this frequently on ANYTHING else I had to ride. Never had loose spokes on any BMW that I can remember. I don't thing it to be unreasonable expectation to go a fair distance without a spoke failure. I only compare to BMW because that has been my riding experience. We could bash them and talk about final drives drive shafts and ABS pumps but not here.
My rear wheel had about 5 spokes that I had to draw up the nipples finger tight before I had to use a wrench. Yamaha dealer talking to Yamaha who said they had not ever heard of such a thing etc. Someone is not doing their homework and it's not me......
Up-most and foremost, I think the bike to be the best bike I have ever owned. Period. Love the bike. Like most of you, I think it is just a perfect all around machine. I feel it beats the GS hands down regardless of what the paid magazines riders claim. My opinion. That being said, one of the other deciding factors for me to buy this was the extensive dealer network, size of the manufacturer and parts availability. All so far is turning out to be pretty crappy. My bike has been at the dealership coming up on 2 weeks and Yamaha's response has been slow and a tedious process. They want pictures. Then they want to see it. Then they want me to produce receipts showing where and who did the maintenance at 600 and 4000 miles. May seem reasonable to some, but I don't find that to be the case. What if I did all of the work? Now what? I did the 600, an oil change at 2500 miles. Fortunately I had the work done at a friends shop at the 4200 mark. Not a Yamaha dealer...Is that ok? Guess I will find out. For the record I checked the front spokes and they where not finger loose but I found them to be loose as well and will require re-torqued and possibly truing etc. Maintenance plays a key role in any type of machinery here but something is wrong when you cannot ride a bike a reasonable distance without your spokes loosing or worse falling out. The bitch of it is, there is still no date on expected availability on the rear wheel or the swing arm.
Did ride the bike on several dual sport rides, some harder than others. Maybe the wheels are for street use only Yamaha? Ok, I am a little pissed about the whole thing but will wade through this and am going to call Yamaha through my dealer today and am going to ask some poignant questions. I even bought the extended warranty through Yamaha which I may end up canceling if this is how they are going to be about a claim which I feel is clearly their responsibility. Customer satisfaction goes a long way and hopefully they will see that and step up to the plate. Will post progress if anyone cares to read about it. All the best, ride safe, Toyboy

 

[kraigd]

No one in the world puts more time to keep up a motorcycle than I do. Many may be as good but no one is more detailed than I am. You have taken a big leap thinking I dont. I check my bike over tire to tire every 3 to 4 thousand miles when I do the oil change. I check my tire pressure and cond of the tires every time before I ride. I ping my spokes as a rule every month dep on miles. I have had 16 BMW GSs with spoked wheels and covered 350,000 miles, this is not my first trip down the road. I have never had a spoke come loose. Not one time. As for my S-10 I have not had a loose spoke in 15k. I now 18k on the bike, thats in 8 months, so please stick your maint idea deep in your tail pipe. This is a bad design the spoke should not be able to fall out. Easy fix for Yamaha C-clip. Spoke can loosen but not fall out.

As a manufacturer, I would tell you to pound sand. This is a maintenance item. Since you didn't check the spokes, it's on you for the damage caused by a loose one. Sorry.

By the way, I'm the first person to post regarding this issue. Since I had the spoke issue, I have not had one problem since I check them at regular intervals. This is not a manufacturing issue. It is a maintenance issue.

 

[kraigd]

PS I worked this out with Yamaha today. They gave me a credit to replace the rim only. $425.00. I used it to buy my ext warr. Dealer disc warr to $500.00 so thats it. And I did tell them to read this forum, will they who knows. Love the bike not happy with the spoke BS but I hope the loctite 290 fixes issue. It beats the final drive falling apart on a BMW.

Hello to all,
Wanted to weigh in a bit on the spoke issue that Yamaha says they do not have and never heard of. I had a spoke issue problem and got to call bullshit on the maintenance/versus manufacture issue. Been riding dual sports a really long time as well as dirt bikes. Been riding BMW's exclusively as far as dual sports go and everything under the sun as far as dirt bikes go.
I had the exact same thing happen. Lost a nibble spoke bent and gouged the swing arm and damaged the rim by chaffing the one edge pretty good for about 6 inches. I checked my spokes at aprox 600 miles and the 4000 mark. This occurred at 7200 miles. Just how often do I need to check the stinking things? Oddly enough I never had to check this frequently on ANYTHING else I had to ride. Never had loose spokes on any BMW that I can remember. I don't thing it to be unreasonable expectation to go a fair distance without a spoke failure. I only compare to BMW because that has been my riding experience. We could bash them and talk about final drives drive shafts and ABS pumps but not here.
My rear wheel had about 5 spokes that I had to draw up the nipples finger tight before I had to use a wrench. Yamaha dealer talking to Yamaha who said they had not ever heard of such a thing etc. Someone is not doing their homework and it's not me......
Up-most and foremost, I think the bike to be the best bike I have ever owned. Period. Love the bike. Like most of you, I think it is just a perfect all around machine. I feel it beats the GS hands down regardless of what the paid magazines riders claim. My opinion. That being said, one of the other deciding factors for me to buy this was the extensive dealer network, size of the manufacturer and parts availability. All so far is turning out to be pretty crappy. My bike has been at the dealership coming up on 2 weeks and Yamaha's response has been slow and a tedious process. They want pictures. Then they want to see it. Then they want me to produce receipts showing where and who did the maintenance at 600 and 4000 miles. May seem reasonable to some, but I don't find that to be the case. What if I did all of the work? Now what? I did the 600, an oil change at 2500 miles. Fortunately I had the work done at a friends shop at the 4200 mark. Not a Yamaha dealer...Is that ok? Guess I will find out. For the record I checked the front spokes and they where not finger loose but I found them to be loose as well and will require re-torqued and possibly truing etc. Maintenance plays a key role in any type of machinery here but something is wrong when you cannot ride a bike a reasonable distance without your spokes loosing or worse falling out. The bitch of it is, there is still no date on expected availability on the rear wheel or the swing arm.
Did ride the bike on several dual sport rides, some harder than others. Maybe the wheels are for street use only Yamaha? Ok, I am a little pissed about the whole thing but will wade through this and am going to call Yamaha through my dealer today and am going to ask some poignant questions. I even bought the extended warranty through Yamaha which I may end up canceling if this is how they are going to be about a claim which I feel is clearly their responsibility. Customer satisfaction goes a long way and hopefully they will see that and step up to the plate. Will post progress if anyone cares to read about it. All the best, ride safe, Toyboy

 

[RED CAT]

No spoke issues on my S10. 16,500kms. Just check them every so often. Couple needed 1/4 turn at 1000km then nothing since. They can take a hit compared to my GS12 cast wheels, which bent easily. ::001::

 

[sail2xxs]

I lost one rear spoke at 16,847 miles. The spokes had been checked by the dealer at the 600, and 14,935 mile (new tires installed) marks. All of the spokes - front and rear - needed to be snugged up. Since this was done (sorry, forgot the exact torque value required) I have not had any issues. Bike now has almost 50.5k miles on it.

Chris

 

[Toyboy]

Totally agree with Craigd. In all of my years of riding, I have never had a spoke nipple fall off like this one did. Would have lost at LEAST 3 more had the one spoke not bent and sounded like a kids bike with a clothespin and a card stuck in it. I don't think it is a design issue as long as spokes are torqued to spec which is what I am questioning. Were they torqued to spec? I don't know and am doubting proper measurement or it is inadequate amount from the get go. Not sure I mentioned it but all of my front spokes would take a turn at least.That the spokes could lose torque and subsequently fall out as a result of the design means ultra care on part of the manufacturing process should be followed. Maybe the torque spec in use is not adequate to make up for the give that they are showing. All in all, in my mind, it is firmly in Yamaha's lap. Called and spoke with them today. Have 2 issues we are trying to clear up. Culpability is one that will get sorted out but more importantly, where the hell is the replacement parts? Been at the dealer now for 2 weeks. Parts on back order etc with no answers. Awesome weather. Glad I still have the old R1150RT-P to ride or I would be really pissed. I thought for sure the parts would be here by now. Waiting on a all back from Yamaha today. More to follow. Cheers to all, ride safe.

 

[nicky666]

same problem here, 7200 miles, scratched up muffler, rim, gouged swing arm, checked spokes 4 times, last time 1000 miles prior to
the spoke nipple falling off, with 4 others ready to come off, tell me its normal ) i think not, so out of the goodness of
there heart, yamaha is going to goodwill me some spokes, for what the dealer described as $3000 worth of damage.
by the way, 40 plus years motorcycle expereince, 30 years as a mechanic, my BMW gs had no spoke problems, amazingly
enough ???, love the tenere, but yamaha,,,,,,,,, can p_ss right off.

 

[stevepsd]

One suggestion I can make, which DCStrom also mentioned is to zip-tie your spokes together where they cross. This will prevent any additional damage to the rim, swingarm, etc. We did this on our desert racing bikes but for a different reason....if we broke a spoke we did not want the spoke to jam itself into the chain, brake rotor, etc which could cause you to go from racing speed to a crash in a heartbeat!

The nipple issue is due to Yamaha's design, which I think is great, but does have it's drawbacks. On the plus side it is real easy to replace a broken spoke; since there are no nipples in the rim, you don't have to worry about sealing each spoke hole in the rim; it's easy to true the wheel and adjust spoke tension (try that with the spoke system BMW uses on the GS's). On the negative side, due to the nipples not being retained by the rim band/tube (like on regular spoked wheels), if a spoke loosens up then there is nothing to retain the nipple and it will eventually come off. And you end up with a flopping spoke. Hence the suggestion to zip-tie the spokes together. All bikes with spokes should have their spokes zip-tied.

You can use locktite on the nipple, but you will not be able to use a torque wrench to check the torque on the nipple, but then I have never used a torque wrench on spokes, in my 40+ years of riding/wrenching. Neither have any of my fellow riders and racers. We always use the 'ping' method to check for loose spokes and check for the wheel being true by spinning it on the axle using a simple pointer to check for runout and adjust as required. We did/do this usually after any big hits or every couple of rides.

I agree with MarkJenn that this really is a maintenance issue (somewhat exacerbated) due to what I believe is flexing of the cast aluminum hub, specifically the nipple bosses that might be a tad undersized. But spoke wheels are not maintenance free, that is one of the reasons that cast wheels became so very popular. I am sure that a large number of ST riders have not had spoke wheels before, so there is widespread unfamiliarity. Especially with a almost 100hp bike!

I have only had a couple of loose spokes, they required no more than a quarter-turn to take care of. These were within the first few thousand of miles. Nothing since.

Just keep a eye on them and I am sure after they 'seat' then the maintenance will be become infrequent.

 

[Toyboy]

Saga continues with Yamaha. No resolution, no decision. Apparently the fact that I reported it at the 7200 mile mark and rode the bike after I tightened the spokes and got it to the dealer at 9000 plus mileage is a big damn deal. I don't get it. Dealership is 2 plus hours away, don't want to lose the bike during some planned rides, great riding weather and I just could not get it there does not seem to matter. I know bikes, it was safe to ride missing a spoke.....What difference does it make? I reported it, dealt with it until I could get it there etc does NOT negate the fact that the damage was done when it happened and by what it did. Am I missing something? Getting the local rep involved. One issue is that Yamaha by good willing things and not owning up to these claims as warranty is there way of not assuming liability for the issue. If someone should lose a wheel riding and suffer injury or something, they would be liable.

The idea of zip tie-ing is a good one. Will do that if I keep the bike. Pretty pissed off about the whole thing and even though the bike is great, not sure how I fell about keeping it, especially if Yamaha does not man up and fix it. The 1200GS wheels actually have a mini allen lock that you need to loosen before you can tighten or remove the nipple. Might be the permanent solution to the the nipples falling off in flight so to speak.
Too early yet to hear from CA so hope I can get an answer today. Not expecting much. If you see a used Super T on Ebay for sale in PA, make sure you read the narrative. I will make sure any potential Yamaha buyer is well read into the lack of warranty support by Yamaha. Ride safe....

 

[Toyboy]

::018:: Finally got a decision. Yamaha good willing rear rim, spokes and swingarm. I pay for install. It is not the answer I had hoped for but they wore me out. Tired of dealing with it. ::010:: I will take what I can get and run. This is still the best bike I have ever owned hands down. It is a shame that they can't tweek the design and install a lock allen etc at the nipple. Problem would be solved. Will probably go the Woody route this winter, go with stainless spokes. Til then going to zip tie them at the crossings.

With the exception of my shifter binding like most for lack of grease and my axles being hard to remove as they were dryer than a popcorn farts, bike has been superb. Love the handling, the engine and the reliability. Would reccomend to anyone, just don't expect much in the way of customer support ::005:: and you will love it.
Last decision is whether or not to cancel my extended warranty. If this is how they are going to be on a claim, better off without warranty so I instantly know where i stand. Less headaches.
" IF things or people don't meet your standards, lower your standards" I will live longer anyway.
Ride safe to all.

 

[Swagger]

..... " IF things or people don't meet your standards, lower your standards" I will live longer anyway ....

Man you need to get that fixed don't you? ... I joined the military so we don't have to have other peoples ideals imposed upon us. Low standards don't compute in anyway for me. I don't mean to be critical at all but IMHO I'd prefer higher standards and ethics all round. Just saying.

 

[The Rotund One]

Man you need to get that fixed don't you? ... I joined the military so we don't have to have other peoples ideals imposed upon us. Low standards don't compute in anyway for me. I don't mean to be critical at all but IMHO I'd prefer higher standards and ethics all round. Just saying.

::009::

I'm with Swagger on this. I don't tolerate mediocrity well at all. I too am not trying to be critical in a mean spirited way. I am not my brother's keeper, but, I can choose who my brother is. Do not lower your standards, find someone who meets yours.


/ ::009::

 

[Toyboy]

Hold on guys! ...I have no intention of compromising my standards for no one. Did not get this far as an aviator with that mind set. Just something I remember hearing when I was in the military meant as a sarcastic joke. So it was a joke....
That being said, and dealing with the issue at hand, (no thoughts there huh?) it is total BS that I have to eat the cost of labor on this issue but I got bigger things to worry about in my life. I will live longer if I do not stress over this crap. This kind of thing can really put a bad feeling in one's mind etc and I just want to stop stressing over this.
Anyone of you would feel the same way if it was happening to them. I maintained my bike to standards and the bike had a failure that should be 100 percent covered by the manufacturer. They opted to "good will" parts rather than admit they could potentially have in my mind, a safety issue. Spokes coming loose is not an issue. That has been happening for a long time. That the nipples can just come off as a result of being loose is not safe. The wheel without spokes is not a wheel. A loose spoke wheel can maintain integrity and get you to a safe stop. Let there be no doubt about it, in my opinion, this IS a safety issue plain and simple.
I will wait for the recall to come out and deal with it at that point. Hopefully, this thread has heightened awareness to checking spokes more frequently than required. I know I will....ride safe, Out.

 

[roy]

Having dealt with Yamaha on the headlight harness I see a lot of similarities in toyboy's deal and mine.

I agree with him 100% Yamaha service after the sale is terrible. That warranty is not worth the paper it's written on. I really hated them after my dealings with them. I still harbor bad feelings toward them and it will certainly weigh on as to whether I ever buy their product again. Which is doubtful as of today.

To date I have only had a few slightly loose spokes on my rear wheel but I check them way to often. I've never found s loose one on the front wheel.

 

[stevepsd]

Let there be no doubt about it, in my opinion, this IS a safety issue plain and simple.
I will wait for the recall to come out and deal with it at that point. Hopefully, this thread has heightened awareness to checking spokes more frequently than required. I know I will....ride safe, Out.

I don't know if there will be a recall or not, but just playing devils advocate, it clearly states in the owners manual all of the things that need to be checked prior to each ride, and one of them is loose spokes.

Even my KTM owners manual says to check the spokes every 3 hours of riding time. Heck that would be a couple of times a day for me in the winter. Again, I don't think many owners would do it.

This stuff may be in the manuals as a CYA for the manufactures. If a problem arises they could say 'improper maintenance'.

I am sure all of us religiously do all the 16 listed pre-ride checks listed prior to each ride : I bet most of us do a cursory over-all check. Now a pre-flight checklist on a aircraft is another matter. With those I do not take anything for granted.