Drive Shaft - Questions

Boris

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Hi

I have read and gone through numerous drive related threads, but have seen conflicting responses, hence the questions,

Note - This is my first drive shaft bike :) - 2013 S10, 12k miles.

This coming winter I plan to remove the pumpkin and lube the front splines, what lube goes on these splines?

Also, on pictures I see where the pumpkin is removed and the drive shaft is revealed, up near the front there appears to be a circlip, just behind the end of the splines. Do I need to do anything with this?? Or is it really as simple as pull the driveshaft out, lube, re-insert the driveshaft?

I will also clean up the driveshaft and ensure the little drain hole is clear.

The rear splines/wheel splines I am happy with, no questions around this.

Thanks in advance
Boris
 

Juan

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Boris,

My S10 is a 2013 model with 30k kilometers (say 19k miles). I never greased the final drive. When I took off the rear wheel to replace the tyre (at around 22k kilometers, the visible gear was still well lubricated so I assumed the other gears (not visible) would be the same. Having said all this, I don't do much riding in the rain and avoid dirt roads.

If you're lubricating the final drive, you should use a high-content moly grease. I would use the Honda Moly.

As for the circlip, I don't know how to answer this. I'm sure other members can help you.
 

gv550

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The service manual recommends lithium soap grease on the front spline and molybdenum disulphide grease on the rear spline. I used Honda moly on the front spline because that's what I had on hand.
There is no snapring involved.
 

EricV

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When you un-bolt the pumpkin from the swingarm by removing the four acorn nuts, (assuming the rear wheel is already removed), the pumpkin will pull to the rear with the drive shaft attached. Do NOT remove the drive shaft from the pumpkin, which would require snap ring removal. That end of the shaft is lubricated with the gear oil in the pumpkin. The other end is pulling out of the U-joint. As correctly stated by gv550, either lithium soap grease or any good high moly content grease works fine on that and the wheel mating drive gear. Honda Moly 60 used to be the favorite, but it is no longer sold. Other high moly content greases are out there, often labeled 'extreme pressure grease'. Super Tech Moly Grease is available at WalMart for a reasonable price. LINK
 

RCinNC

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Boris: I did this same maintenance just a month or so ago, and it's very simple. Once you undo the acorn nuts that connect the pumpkin to the swingarm, you can pull the pumpkin right out of the swingarm, and it'll bring the driveshaft with it. It's way less daunting in real life than it seems.

This is the lube I used on the splines where the driveshaft enters the U-Joint: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XA2EQK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's $15.51 for a tube.
 

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Boris

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krussell

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The service manual calls out Moly for the pumpkin end of the shaft, and lithium soap for the transmission end. I wonder why the difference? Yamalube Race Grease is one option for the things that call for LS.
 

EricV

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Boris said:
Am still unsure about the circliip ?? What's this clip for?
There are two circlips on the drive shaft. One at the bottom to hold the dust seal and other components in, including the shaft into the diff, and another, smaller diameter one at the top, just to the rear of the splines. This really doesn't do much, but acts as a fail safe stop for how far the shaft fits into the U-joint. Typically, when installed as a unit, the driveshaft doesn't actually go into the U-joint as far as the circlip. You can tell this from the lack of wear on the face of the circlip.

As far as maintenance goes, leave it in place. You have no reason to remove it. The FSM actually shows the back end of the shaft where it seats into the diff as being lubricated with moly disulfide grease. I would recommend you NOT take that apart for general service. It's a good way to cause a leak at the seal there.
 
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Boris

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EricV said:
There are two circlips on the drive shaft. , and another, smaller diameter one at the top, just to the rear of the splines. This really doesn't do much, but acts as a fail safe stop for how far the shaft fits into the U-joint. Typically, when installed as a unit, the driveshaft doesn't actually go into the U-joint as far as the circlip. You can tell this from the lack of wear on the face of the circlip.

As far as maintenance goes, leave it in place. You have no reason to remove it.
Perfect! Thank you Mr V ::008::
 

steve68steve

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I don't think I saw it mentioned:

I've read that when you re-install the 4 acorn nuts, you're not supposed to torque them all the way until after the rear wheel is installed and the axle bolt torqued - or maybe loosen them and re-torque after re-installing the back wheel.

The thinking is that this allows the axle to square the pumpkin up. If you torque the pumpkin back down and it's axis is not perfectly parallel to the ground, the axle will be have to be in stress to re-install the wheel.
 

ocgeek

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Correct, good point.
It was mentioned in one note (which i was reading 5 mins ago :) ) in the "big thread" that the final torque to the 4 acorn pumpkin nuts has to happen after the rear wheel is mounted and the axle torqued to spec (pumpkin last to be torqued to spec). I was looking to a video on the tube before where this was completely ignored...
 
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ballisticexchris

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Boris: I did this same maintenance just a month or so ago, and it's very simple. Once you undo the acorn nuts that connect the pumpkin to the swingarm, you can pull the pumpkin right out of the swingarm, and it'll bring the driveshaft with it. It's way less daunting in real life than it seems.

This is the lube I used on the splines where the driveshaft enters the U-Joint: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XA2EQK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's $15.51 for a tube.
Thanks Ron. I have a tube of that in my lube bin. I used it to lube the splines on the wheel.

Perfect! Thank you Mr V ::008::
Good thread to bring up Boris. I'm getting ready to do some big maintenance on my bike as well. I sometimes forget how much is required to properly maintain these machines.
 

ocgeek

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I don't think I saw it mentioned:

I've read that when you re-install the 4 acorn nuts, you're not supposed to torque them all the way until after the rear wheel is installed and the axle bolt torqued - or maybe loosen them and re-torque after re-installing the back wheel.

The thinking is that this allows the axle to square the pumpkin up. If you torque the pumpkin back down and it's axis is not perfectly parallel to the ground, the axle will be have to be in stress to re-install the wheel.
Hi Steve,
on a second though have an additional Q
Is it better to have the rear wheel on ground / suspended / else when finally torquing the acorn nuts of the pumpkin ?

I'm inclined to think the weight of the wheel may somehow "rotate" the pumpkin natural position (as the whole assembly sits (is hold) completely on the other side of the swing-arm it may flex or pivot at that point somehow (if you see what i mean); or i'm overthinking it ?

Thanks in advance
 

EricV

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Having the rear wheel on just aligns the pumpkin more precisely before final torque of the pumpkin acorn nuts. You will see when you re-install the pumpkin that there is some rotational play possible. Not a lot, mind you, so it's not a huge deal, but leaving it slightly loose and installing the wheel and axle makes sure that you won't have any binding with the axle later. Don't forget to lube the axle shaft too. Helps avoid corrosion and ease removal later. :)
 

LostDonkey

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My question/comment; why do you want to do this at all? I had over 100k on my gen1 ST and the only shaft drive maintenance I ever did was to replace the final drive oil every 10k (km) (oil is cheap) and clean the gear/spline connection to the wheel hub every tire change. At the time of the bike being written off there was still very little play in the shaft assembly. I ride off road as much as possible with the conditions being everything from deep water crossings to bull dust and thick, soft sand. Unless strictly called for, I’ve learnt that the best preventative maintenance for sealed mechanical units is to leave them sealed.
 

EricV

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This comes from the problems with Honda ST1100s where the shaft splines wore prematurely if not well lubed with a high quality grease. For the Yamaha, it's more preventative maintenance than a need to avoid a known issue. It hurts nothing and if you need to tear into it at a later date it's going to be easier to separate the drive shaft from the U-joint.

FWIW, I did this every 50k or so on my FJR and S10s and having seen my FJR's u-joint at those mileages I can tell you that it does get hot and grimy over the miles. It's a little more work to remove the U-joint and grease the engine side splines, but not a bad idea either. The shaft splines on the drive shaft are super easy to get to if you just do that side.

The bike won't grenade if you don't do it. Many owners never put enough miles on the bike to worry about stuff like this. Owners coming from low quality Euro bikes tend to falsely believe that a lot of maintenance is required for any bike. We all get to choose what level of PM we want to perform that makes us happy.

Keep in mind that the UK guys have corrosion issues that most of us don't. Lubing the front splines on the shaft in the UK means they won't rust solid and you can separate them next time, should the need arise.
 
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