Difficulty shifting into 3rd and 4th gear

[sama117]

Please, demean me as necessary if I overlooked someone having had this issue already, I didn't see it in my searches of the forum. I'm about 1600 miles since getting the bike back from having all new rods, pistons, bearings, rings, etc done by Yamaha due to a plane bearing failure. It has had its oil changed since and is properly full, and suddenly I am having a great deal of difficulty up shifting into third and fourth gears. I've read about the shifter spring issues some members have had but have not removed the cover as of yet, and I have properly bled my clutch system clean and full of fluid. My linkage is lubricated and free moving. I have noticed that it will shift into those gears easier if I pull the clutch in and let the engine drop to idle, then attempt the shift. It also has a pronounced clunk going into first when running, but no clutch drag to speak of. It's having no issues downshifting. The bike is equipped with the off the road slave cylinder and the 2014+ OEM clutch basket. The clutch looked excellent when I installed the basket. It did not have this issue before or immediately after the basket replacement, it was replaced due to the vibration issues the 1st gens have. Bike has 32,000 on it currently. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'm 6000$ into repairs on this bike this year alone, not including what I spent to buy it in March...

 

[Sierra1]

That "clunk" going into first from neutral is normal. Have you tried adjusting the clutch lever from 1-4 or 4-1? Have you tried upshifting without using the clutch? (once your moving of course)

 

[sama117]

That "clunk" going into first from neutral is normal. Have you tried adjusting the clutch lever from 1-4 or 4-1? Have you tried upshifting without using the clutch? (once your moving of course)

I have not attempted upshifting without the clutch, but have adjusted the clutch lever position between 1-4 without change. I will say, and should have mentioned, the brake fluid in the clutch looked awful. I reverse bled it from the slave using a syringe until it was spotless, and it feels as if it is operating normally.

 

[Sierra1]

Was there a difference in clutch feel from 1-4? If not, maybe the slave cylinder is wonky.

 

[sama117]

Was there a difference in clutch feel from 1-4? If not, maybe the slave cylinder is wonky.

Consistent through all gears. I was wondering the same though. I tried pumping the clutch and didn't notice much change though. If I gently rock the bike back and forth while shifting with the engine off, it's a nice positive clunk fully into second. At third it has this soft feeling and an almost hollow sounding click, then if I rock the bike forward gently the clunk fully into 3rd occurs.

*Edit* I did not notice much difference between settings 1-4 in clutch operation, only in length of pull. I have been running it in 1 since purchase.

 

[Tenforeplay]

On my newer’23 all shifts up and down are pretty much the same. Into gear from neutral is much quieter and smooth compared to the dr650. I would guess an error in reassembly if it hasn’t been mistreated since. Look at a diagram of the affected gears and see if they are on the same stack or use the same synchronizer. Sounds like a possible trip back to the mechanic at the least to let them know there are possible issues with their reassembly.

 

[Matt51F1]

What oil are you running?
The brand of oil can make the difference on some Yamaha bikes.

I used to run Penrite full synthetic oil and it would clunk. Putting Yamalube in almost took it away
(This was on my TDM’s).

Yamalube is the most expensive (annoyingly) and the other oils either have or exceed the requirements stipulated for the bikes - but it still makes a difference. I cannot explain why.

It’s like when topping up oil for a Briggs & Stratton engine. Use B&S oil, it runs great. Run any other brand and it runs like a 1969 Triumph Bonneville where the oil leak even has a part number assigned to it!

 

[sama117]

What oil are you running?
The brand of oil can make the difference on some Yamaha bikes.

I used to run Penrite full synthetic oil and it would clunk. Putting Yamalube in almost took it away
(This was on my TDM’s).

Yamalube is the most expensive (annoyingly) and the other oils either have or exceed the requirements stipulated for the bikes - but it still makes a difference. I cannot explain why.

It’s like when topping up oil for a Briggs & Stratton engine. Use B&S oil, it runs great. Run any other brand and it runs like a 1969 Triumph Bonneville where the oil leak even has a part number assigned to it!

Yamalube synthetic.

 

[sama117]

On my newer’23 all shifts up and down are pretty much the same. Into gear from neutral is much quieter and smooth compared to the dr650. I would guess an error in reassembly if it hasn’t been mistreated since. Look at a diagram of the affected gears and see if they are on the same stack or use the same synchronizer. Sounds like a possible trip back to the mechanic at the least to let them know there are possible issues with their reassembly.

Trying to avoid this as somehow they are able to not offer warranty on their repairs. Wild...

 

[Matt51F1]

Yamalube synthetic.

Oh well… that idea of mine was shot to sh*t then :/

 

[Matt51F1]

OK… so for consistency…
The clutch basket has been done previously with no issues to be found in there.
The linkage on the left is free moving with no binding of the exterior parts.
Shifting from:
Neutral to 1: OK
1 to 2: OK (I would have thought this would be where the clunk would be)
2 to 3: OK (or start of clunk?)
3 to 4: CLUNK!
The rest: OK
Coming down:
6 to 5, 5 to 4, 4 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, neutral: all OK

Did the gearbox get pulled apart in the rebuild?
The only thing I can guess at it that maybe there is either something very worn between those gears in the box or something has fallen into the box during the rebuild between those gears that has affected them.

 

[mybackhurts]

I have noticed that it will shift into those gears easier if I pull the clutch in and let the engine drop to idle, then attempt the shift.

Idk about dropping all the way to idle but, you should be lifting off the throttle to switch gears on any bike. I notice the bike likes it best when I completely close the throttle for that split second.

 

[Sierra1]

Don't even need the clutch at that point.

 

[mybackhurts]

Don't even need the clutch at that point.

Not worth grenading my daily to get smooth.

Gladly do it on a cheap bike.

 

[sama117]

OK… so for consistency…
The clutch basket has been done previously with no issues to be found in there.
The linkage on the left is free moving with no binding of the exterior parts.
Shifting from:
Neutral to 1: OK
1 to 2: OK (I would have thought this would be where the clunk would be)
2 to 3: OK (or start of clunk?)
3 to 4: CLUNK!
The rest: OK
Coming down:
6 to 5, 5 to 4, 4 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, neutral: all OK

Did the gearbox get pulled apart in the rebuild?
The only thing I can guess at it that maybe there is either something very worn between those gears in the box or something has fallen into the box during the rebuild between those gears that has affected them.

Perfect summary, and thank you for the time and suggestions. The gearbox was inspected but nothing needed service per the tech. It was fully torn down but the gears were left on the shafts as far as I know. I think they took this photo with a potato, sorry for the poor quality.

 

[sama117]

Idk about dropping all the way to idle but, you should be lifting off the throttle to switch gears on any bike. I notice the bike likes it best when I completely close the throttle for that split second.

I always close idle for shifts and generally use the clutch for every shift up or down. I definitely do not wait the couple seconds it takes for the idle speed to fall to idle.

 

[mybackhurts]

I always close idle for shifts and generally use the clutch for every shift up or down. I definitely do not wait the couple seconds it takes for the idle speed to fall to idle.

Fair enough. Just read that line and wanted to be sure.

Just like no start or dying issues.... you have fuel right?

 

[Sierra1]

Not worth grenading my daily to get smooth. . . .

No clunking is smooth. Smooth is good.

 

[mybackhurts]

No clunking is smooth. Smooth is good.

Oh I'm sure. You def have more years then me on two wheels.

 

[Matt51F1]

Perfect summary, and thank you for the time and suggestions. The gearbox was inspected but nothing needed service per the tech. It was fully torn down but the gears were left on the shafts as far as I know. I think they took this photo with a potato, sorry for the poor quality.

So, if we add that there were no alterations that could have affected the gearbox, there are two options left…
1. Riding style
2. Riding location
3. Something not in the gearbox

1. I doubt it’s this as, going in what you’ve written about shifting style, you do the same as I do (because you own the bike and want it to last).

2. Could be linked to #3 as well.
The problem could be that it clunks between all gears but it’s just not evident in 1/2 & 5/6
Does it happen on all roads? Uphill? Downhill? Flat?
Smooth? Rough? Dirt?

3. Could potentially be linked to #2…
Again, because of low or high gears that it’s not felt but potentially something in the rear end that is being transferred through to the gearbox? Dodgy splines?

Any electronic power adders on the bike? Maybe something that only starts to kick in from 3rd? I know the Suzuki GSX1400 was detuned from factory for 1-2-3 because it would wheel stand in near any gear. There are doodads available that negate this.