Dead battery or something else?

[trikepilot]

I've been having a battery issue that I cannot find anything definitive about at the forum. Thought I’d ask you.

At this point I have two potential theories. First, the batt is indeed going bad and it is just at that line of good enough to test well at the store with minimal load yet not good enough to crank the starter motor. Or second, my relay is going bad and the battery is still good. Regardless, it has me concerned enough that I am not riding it like I should for fear of being stranded.

Recently the battery has been acting “dead.” The first time it happened, the bike turned over once and then all I got was the buzzing sound from the relay on the electrical panel. I ran the battery on my charger for several hours and everything went back to normal for several days. Then it did the same thing again – click and buzz from the relay. So I took the battery out and went to get a new one. While neither Advance nor AutoZone has that battery in stock, one of those places hooked my current battery up to their diagnostic machine and everything checked out just fine – 12 volts and 220 cca’s.

But then I went to start it and nothing. No turning of the motor – only the buzzing of the relay on the elec panel. So I once again put my battery tester on there and it read in the “good” range. Guess I need an actual voltmeter that tells me the specs rather than this hokey little battery tester that says either “good” or “replace.” So it is again back on the charger and we’ll see what happens in a few hours. It just makes me leery to take it to work and then have to jump it off or try to bump start it.
Got any insights? I gather that the OEM battery – the Yuasa ytz12s – is not such a long lived item. This S10 is 2 years old, has 8k on it, and sat out all of last winter with no battery tender (I know, dumb move….!). I was thinking of a replacement battery but the test at the auto parts place said it was good. I am not into buying an expensive new battery if the one I have is good and there is something else causing the issues.

Well then a week later it happened again. So after charging the batt for maybe 30 mins, I tried to start the S10 and she fired right up.

I decided to ride her to charge the batt so I ran by the PO and was going to head out to the airport to visit with some friends. Upon arriving, I shut off the bike but absent mindedly left the key on for maybe a few mins at most and then I turned it off. When I went to start it, it did the same thing – buzzing at the relay in the elec panel. So I got a jump and that even took awhile to work out. It would not crank when connected to the car battery and then all of a sudden out-of-the-blue - it did. So I rode it straight home and tossed it back on the charger. At the start of the charging cycle the charger read that it was charging but in maybe 30 -45 mins, it read that the S10 battery was fully charged.

Something seems a bit fishy to me and I am no electronics expert. But this electrical issue just started out of the blue. It is not consistent. The car parts store diagnostic computer says the battery is fine – 12v and 220 cca. My cheapo hand tester says it is good. And when I put it on the charger, it took almost no time to read fully charged on the charger’s readout. If the batt was so dead as to not start the bike, it should have taken longer to charge the batt – or at least that is what my logic says.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[JohnB]

In my experience, when a battery "acts dead", replace it.

 

[jc450]

I'd be looking very closely at all connections between battery and starter. If a car battery doesnt crank it right away there is another problem aside from battery. Could be flat spot on starter if it wont start immediately and voltage is at starter try tapping the starter motor on the housing.

Regards, jc

 

[OkState]

Sounds like it could be a bad connection either at the battery or relay. Solenoid will usually buZz or chatter with low voltage. Might check all the connections to from battery to starter. If they are all good it's likely the battery. I've seen batteries test good but fail in a vehicle.

 

[trikepilot]

All connections are good.They have been double and triple checked.

I am just trying to avoid buying a new battery if it is not needed. But that was my first inclination.

Has anyone found a better replacement battery option than the Yuasa that the S10 came with?

 

[Firefight911]

Try the Shorai.

Your description is indicating a bad battery. Prolly a cell going bad which allows it to test good but under real world where the load is greater it is failing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!

 

[EricV]

While I agree with the potential for a bad cell, first I would want it load tested. And I want to know what electrical farkles you have.

Some things, even when off, draw power.

The Bags Connection electrical tank bag ring, for example, will kill a battery in no time flat if connected to the battery per the directions that come with it. Even with zero items plugged into it, it sucks power in the form of dark current.

You can test for dark current by placing a mulit-meter between the battery terminal and the battery cable, but you need to connect them when the two are touching and then pull them apart so the two are now bridged by the multi-meter to avoid a surge.

 

[bruised]

you dont by chance have heated grips and leaving them on?

 

[Gcontroller]

That my friend is a bad battery. You can charge it all you like and get good reads. In fact it will charge easy and show good on a battery tender. But once a load is placed on it that is the end. I'll bet two tacos that all the switches and regs and whatever are good. My vote is bad battery period. Is this your first? I've been through this more then once myself trying to figure out how it tests right then just clicks when I hit the starter. Pulled all kinds of leads and cleaned them all. In the end I get a bump start to get home. Buy a new battery and life is good again.

 

[Gcontroller]

In my experience, when a battery "acts dead", replace it.

I agree.

 

[squarebore]

If it smells like sh$t, tastes like sh$t, it probably is shi$t. Just replace the battery.

 

[trikepilot]

Thanks guys. The battery replacement was my gut instinct, but when I saw how expensive they are, I thought that I should make sure that was the problem before just going out to buy a new one only to have the problem still exist.

This is the OEM Yuasa YTZ12s battery with 8k over 2+ years on it. I have no idea how the previous owner kept it, but since I got the bike in Dec, it has been stored under an exterior porch so it got very cold all winter. I did not run a battery tender on it nor did I take the battery inside - both are likely mistakes in retrospect. I have no electrical farkles on the bike other than a Garmin wired into a Eastern Beaver PC3 but I have not had the Garmin installed into the cradle throughout the outbreak of this problem.

I am searching online right now and will order a new battery. Looks like the Yuasa and the Shorai are my two best choices. While I have the collective wisdom of the group at hand... I have a good bit of experience bump starting my KLR but what does one need to be aware of when trying to bump start the S10? Does the shaft drive mean I have to do anything different?

 

[BaldKnob]

I have a good bit of experience bump starting my KLR but what does one need to be aware of when trying to bump start the S10? Does the shaft drive mean I have to do anything different?

Find a second person to help push or a steeper hill!

As for the Yuasa, my 2000 ZRX 1100 had one installed from Kawasaki and it lasted 10 yrs with no tender during the winter months. They make a good product but once a cell starts to fail, you're dun.

 

[Higstatic]

If you think it's the battery why would it not turn over when you had it on the car battery? I would double check the starter relay

 

[EricV]

Before you spend any money, charge the battery fully, then take it to a battery shop or auto parts store and have it load tested. They will do the load test for free. At that point, you'll know if it has a bad cell or not and if you have to replace the battery or do more diagnostic work.

If you have your GPS wired to the PC-8 as un-switched power, that's your dark current draw right there, even with the cradle empty. I don't know if it's enough of a draw to cause your problems, but it could be.

Batteries are not rocket science. The Shorai is LiFe technology and requires a different battery tender that charges to a higher level. I had one for another bike and while it's pretty cool technology, it wasn't well suited for the application, (a big V-twin). I had many conversations with Shorai about it and the different aspects of the LiFe battery. It likes to be warm to give a good start, for example. They recommended for cold starts to turn the key on, tap the starter to get the lights on, then let it sit for 30 seconds to a minute with the lights on so the current discharge of the lights would warm the battery up, then try the starter. This procedure does result in a faster spinning starter than just turning the key on and trying to start, with the LiFe battery.

How to test for parasitic draw - How to Test for Parasitic Battery Drain Car related, but a pretty decent walk thru.

 

[trikepilot]

Eric - the Garmin goes to a switched PC3 not PC8 but the theory should be the same, I would think.

This Eastern Beaver setup has been in place without issue for several months so I do not think that is the problem. My best guess is that this battery was on its last legs when I got the bike. It worked fine until I let it sit out all winter in frigid temps. That finally sent it over the edge.

I took my gut instinct that I second guessed and that many responders confirmed here - that the battery is bad - and I ordered a new Yuasa online earlier today. It will likely be here by the end of the week. I guess I could have gotten the battery load tested. I took it in fully charged last time that the store tested it, but I am not sure if that was a "load" test.

I have not had the problem in a week but the starter motor just sounds "weak" as it turns over. Yet it does get the bike started. I keep it on a tender when not used. I immediately shutoff all power at the main keyed switch at any stop and I hold my breath when I try to restart it. When possible, I park at the top of the best hill I can find as a safeguard in case I need to try my first bump start.

My new battery will either fix the problem or definitively diagnose otherwise. I can return the battery or fins some other use for it. But this situation is yet another reminder that I do really need replace my fried old multimeter with a new one.

 

[EricV]

I agree that if you're using a switched circuit on the aux. fuse block, that should not be an issue. Some riders like to run GPS on un-switched circuits and this can sometimes cause a current draw when off. Didn't know which you chose.

Hopefully you just have a bad cell in the battery and the new one will correct your issues.

Compared to the FJR I had prior to the Super Ten, the S10's starter always sounds a bit weak.

 

[Karson]

I agree that if you're using a switched circuit on the aux. fuse block, that should not be an issue. Some riders like to run GPS on un-switched circuits and this can sometimes cause a current draw when off. Didn't know which you chose.

Hopefully you just have a bad cell in the battery and the new one will correct your issues.

Compared to the FJR I had prior to the Super Ten, the S10's starter always sounds a bit weak.

I'm not sure if it's all the starter, but it does have a lot to do with the initial slow turnover. I put a shorai lithium iron battery on this spring and it turns over much easier and doesn't sound like you're one crank away from being screwed (never happened, but that's the gut feeling you get with the stocker sometimes)


FWIW...glad it was just the battery for you, trike.

 

[bikerdoc]

Before you spend any money, charge the battery fully, then take it to a battery shop or auto parts store and have it load tested. They will do the load test for free. At that point, you'll know if it has a bad cell or not and if you have to replace the battery or do more diagnostic work.

If you have your GPS wired to the PC-8 as un-switched power, that's your dark current draw right there, even with the cradle empty. I don't know if it's enough of a draw to cause your problems, but it could be.

Batteries are not rocket science. The Shorai is LiFe technology and requires a different battery tender that charges to a higher level. I had one for another bike and while it's pretty cool technology, it wasn't well suited for the application, (a big V-twin). I had many conversations with Shorai about it and the different aspects of the LiFe battery. It likes to be warm to give a good start, for example. They recommended for cold starts to turn the key on, tap the starter to get the lights on, then let it sit for 30 seconds to a minute with the lights on so the current discharge of the lights would warm the battery up, then try the starter. This procedure does result in a faster spinning starter than just turning the key on and trying to start, with the LiFe battery.

How to test for parasitic draw - How to Test for Parasitic Battery Drain Car related, but a pretty decent walk thru.

But on the S10/XT1200 is more likely to result in the "hard start" problem that some have experienced when not following through with a press on the starter button.

 

[bikerdoc]

OP, FWIW I had a similar experience last year while I was back in NZ staying with family. On my AN650 (Suzuki Burgman maxi scoot) it started experiencing difficult starts pretty much like you describe in your post, however the only difference being that any time I did a jump start from another vehicle or battery charger the scoot would start. It would run fine, and sometimes on engine shut down (key/ignition off), the scoot would restart without much difficulty but over time this resulted in a number of instances where trying to restart after a run would result in a solenoid "noise".

One instance I called out the NZAA (Automobile Association) who sent one of the mobile mechanics, he load tested the battery and thought it may be the problem even though it was OK under load, and advised me to go to the autoelectrician. Folloing his advice I took the scoot into the local auto-electrician and he also load tested the battery while in the scoot and even though it read good, he was of the opinion it was in need of a battery replacement, based on his suspicion the battery was going bad. I bought a Motobatt replacement online and saved $$$ since the sparky didn't have anything suitable in his shop. Naturally he offered to get something in for me, but his prices couldn't match what I could get since he had to have some fat on the bone to make his profit. - I'm guessing the battery was in the grey zone between indicating good under load and bad.

New battery arrived which I dutifully fitted, and never had any related problem since. I've left the scoot with family in the Hawkes Bay in the garage with a battery tender in situ, and am now back in China where I'm working. I've had similar experiences with a CFMoto Jetmax (also a maxi scooter). One time I went off for a long afternoon ride, got about 5km away from home, stopped into a petrol station to refuel. When I got back to the scoot after paying inside, the scoot would not crank over - just the ticking sound from the stator. I knew right then and there the battery was on it's way out, since I've had this occur before on this same scoot. One time I shut the same scoot off at a water fall in the mountains some 20km from home. After like half an hour there, went to start the scoot, same thing, just the stator ticking sound each time I hit the starter button. Long story short, had to get a local biking friend to come out with a spare battery, which I connected up using some McGyver wire connectors to the terminals. Got the scoot going. Now I carry a cable with alligator clips (like jump start cables - just not as big) and a small little battery tender, since there's usually some place around with power. Oh and changed the battery for a new one. Basically the batteries for the Jetmax last around a year, once they start playing up, I buy a replacement.

Get the new battery, sure sounds like the same or similar scenario I've exeprienced.