damn side stand..

[fredz43]

Like Brick, I owned a Gen 1 2012 bike and then a 2014 Gen 2 ES and we have seen the different effects of the different sidestands, plus the ES springing on the ES. Many Gen 1 owners, including me installed sidestand feet to not only provide a bigger footprint, but to also raise the sidestand a bit, as we saw that our Gen 1 bikes leaned to the left quite a bit. We both then noticed that our Gen 2 ES bikes seemed to not lean enough to the left and were easily tipped over to the right. It cost me about $90 and an hour or 2 worth of labor replacing that plastic subframe that many things, including windscreen on the front are mounted to after I tipped my ES over on the right side in the garage simply by putting a little pressure on the rear rack while it was on the sidestand. Brick and I have discussed how the ES has a much lighter shock spring than non ES bikes and one side effect is that it doesn't take much pressure on the seat, for instance to see the bike lean to the right when on the sidestand. We both noted that, when parking, if we changed the preload setting to higher than we normally ride, like going to the 2 up plus luggage setting, it raises the rear and thus makes the bike lean more to the left when on the sidestand. In practice, I rarely do this and like Brick, am careful of the "angle of the dangle" when I park my bike. I am aware of it and act accordingly and certainly won't be adding a sidestand foot on my ES.

 

[RonH]

If the gen2 models stand up more upright than the gen1 it's not the side stand. Either the bracket has been angled slightly different or the mount is slightly lower or something along those lines. I took off my steel gen1 stand and fitted the aluminum gen2 in it's place on my 2012 and even used a ruler to check the difference and there was none. My gen1 leans far to the left and I put a piece of wood or equiv under the stand to get it more upright a lot of times. Would be a very rare parking situation where I would worry of it standing too upright.
There very well could be difference in the 2 generations, but it's not a longer side stand.

 

[fredz43]

If the gen2 models stand up more upright than the gen1 it's not the side stand. Either the bracket has been angled slightly different or the mount is slightly lower or something along those lines. I took off my steel gen1 stand and fitted the aluminum gen2 in it's place on my 2012 and even used a ruler to check the difference and there was none. My gen1 leans far to the left and I put a piece of wood or equiv under the stand to get it more upright a lot of times. Would be a very rare parking situation where I would worry of it standing too upright.
There very well could be difference in the 2 generations, but it's not a longer side stand.

Yes, it has to be the weaker spring on the ES that allows the rear of the Gen 2 ES models to sit lower when parked, at least at "normal" riding preload settings, resulting in a more upright stance which makes it more likely to tip over on the right side if the natural slope of the ground is higher on the sidestand side of the bike. Not too rare in the real world and my ES has taught me to be aware of such situations. I have lived with each model for 30,000 miles and 20,000 miles respectively and have learned the difference the hard way.

I would think that since Jeff changed his ES shock spring to a heavier one, he may not notice this problem as much as those of us with the OEM spring. Other than that, with my 185 pound weight the ES works great for me so I'll live with it as is.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Hmm, I've added 7/8" to my Gen1 side stand and it still leans a bit too much.

 

[Juan]

Tip over to the left?

Well yes - to the left. I should have explained that in Malta we drive on the left hand side of the road (like in UK, etc..). This makes the sloping of the road to the left and the side stand may stand out to be too high from the ground when extended.

So I suppose the scary tipping-over may occur in both situations - left and right, depending on which side of the road you drive on.

 

[motoguy]

I have a 2012 and yes it leans heavily to the left. I thought that it was bent from a dirt nap it took, apparently not. If the gen 2 is aluminum wouldn't it be possible to remove it and put a slight bend in it? Or should I say "adjust it" to your liking? This would cost nothing, unless you went overboard and broke it.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Bringing it in to make it 'longer' would narrow the footprint to the point it would be even more tippy. Not to mention metal fatigue of the bent part. The alloy stand is purty and all, but the steel one can be lengthened easily, as can the alloy with the right skill set, but will the steel one mount up? Ah, someone put the alloy in place of the steel, so it can. Fun fun.

 

[WJBertrand]

Well yes - to the left. I should have explained that in Malta we drive on the left hand side of the road (like in UK, etc..). This makes the sloping of the road to the left and the side stand may stand out to be too high from the ground when extended.

So I suppose the scary tipping-over may occur in both situations - left and right, depending on which side of the road you drive on.

OK, thanks for the explanation. Even if it doesn't fall over hoisting that thing back to vertical from too far over on the stand can be extremely difficult complicated by the slope of the shoulder denying you much footing.

 

[WJBertrand]

I would think that since Jeff changed his ES shock spring to a heavier one, he may not notice this problem as much as those of us with the OEM spring.

Yeah hasn't been too much of a problem for me, even with side and top bags mounted. I did have a situation down on Cannery Row this past weekend though. They close the road to other than motorcycles and you line the entire street, both curbs, with motorcycles. The spot where I parked had drop a off from the asphalt to the concrete gutter of 1 - 2 inches. When backed in, this left the rear wheel low compared to the front and the side stand. I could park the bike OK but it was very vertical with a wind blowing down the street from the left. I feared initiating a domino event and decided to deploy the center stand instead.

 

[regulator]

Thanks for the insights Ron and Fred. I've not measured my side stands and thought I read of someone here who swapped the Gen1 for Gen2 for a more upright stance.

I agree the soft ES spring contributes to the issue but can vouch that there is still a disparity (at least on my bikes) after reworking the ES spring.

The only way I'd know for sure if a difference remains regardless of the spring is to do some testing with both stands on one or the other bike. Maybe if they both end up in the same part of the country at some point in the fall, unless someone beats me to it.....

 

[Boondocker]

I had to read most of this thread to figure out that we're talking about different problems (too much lean or not enough) on different bikes (gen1, gen2). Clearly there is not one solution to these multiple conditions. Best bet is you can compensation for your most common condition.

For me, that would be parking my gen1 in my garage - reasonably level concrete floor. My kick stand is too short. I wear Mitas E07 tires, my Penske shock ride height is set a little long to get my preferred chassis geometry while retaining proper sag. With the alternate, higher-rated spring in, for 2-up touring, the rear rests even higher.

I've always had the Altrider side stand foot installed and have recently added some spacers between the bottom of the stand and the foot to effectively lengthen the stand. While these changes get the bike to rest a little more vertical on level ground, it only solves that condition. Parking the bike is not something I take for granted. Ground slope and firmness must be accounted for before stepping off the bike given the potential penalty of having to pick it up.

When riding off-pavement, 2-up and especially when fully loaded, it's a given that we play the "park the bike game". Credit to my wife as she's developed a keen eye for finding the right sized stick or rock to put under the kick stand. "Too-short" of stand can be compensated for this way. "Too long" of a stand and you have to park elsewhere. On uneven ground it's usually just a matter of rolling around a bit to find the sweet spot. In parking lots, it might be the difference between parking "nose-in" or "nose-out".

What it boils down to is that the solution is more about how you park than the length of the stand.

 

[regulator]

Several BMW riders used a hockey puck to lengthen stands on 1150 GSA's. I had good luck with a piece of hard plastic cutting board maybe 1/2") on my 1150.

Might give it a try on my Gen1 Boondocker. I have the AltRider foot as well. Gonna take a look...

 

[Boondocker]

You will need longer fasteners. I bought a few different lengths from ACE Hardware (my go-to place for fasteners). I may try for one more spacer (from 2 to 3 pieces). I'm using Kydex, about 1mm thickness. It's easy to cut and drill. I've had it in for a couple of months,no issues.

Boondocker. I have the AltRider foot as well. Gonna take a look...