Choosing between a BMW GS(A) and a Super T....
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
Agree. Rode to work, ONE time, at -5f. Ténére started and I must have finished.Andylaser said:
rider33
New Member
If price even enters into your evaluation go with the S10: cheaper to buy, cheaper to own and very unlikely to have serious problems. That would go double if we are taking used. It also happens to be a really good bike. If I had or wanted to throw 20 or 25k at a bike I'm pretty sure I could find something with a bit more soul tho having owned quite a number of soulful bikes over the years, I've kind of grown found of ones that just work. Life is short, ride more wrench less.
Older air cooled beemer Vs Super Tenere - that was the decision I made, but at the time both were new (or newish)
Had a 2008 GS, very nice, had "character" but also a fair few niggles in 18,000 miles, looked at the 2012 (Last Air Cooled GS) and the Super Tenere.
The DOHC GS had a lot more character with a nice top-end "rush" and I liked the comfort and handling a lot (although basically same chassis as the 2008 model I already had)
The Yamaha lacked the "character" but had similar performance, handling and character - and was available for a lot less £££ ($$$)
What I wanted was reliability and not high service costs with regular things to replace, so the BMW lost out, four years on my S10 is older and higher mileage than the GS and has required £0 of repairs Vs the £1500+ of things that went wrong on the GS in 18,000 miles.
Very much doubt I would buy another GS, although I do think it is a slightly better bike in most respects, just traded the S10 in for a KTM1190 - I have far more faith in KTM than BMW (well I do right now, may change my view in the next couple of years - but hoping not to)
The S10 was a pleasure to own and ride and has a very special place in my heart despite its lack of "character", I do not regret buying it and would recommend one without any hesitation or caveats ::008::
Had a 2008 GS, very nice, had "character" but also a fair few niggles in 18,000 miles, looked at the 2012 (Last Air Cooled GS) and the Super Tenere.
The DOHC GS had a lot more character with a nice top-end "rush" and I liked the comfort and handling a lot (although basically same chassis as the 2008 model I already had)
The Yamaha lacked the "character" but had similar performance, handling and character - and was available for a lot less £££ ($$$)
What I wanted was reliability and not high service costs with regular things to replace, so the BMW lost out, four years on my S10 is older and higher mileage than the GS and has required £0 of repairs Vs the £1500+ of things that went wrong on the GS in 18,000 miles.
Very much doubt I would buy another GS, although I do think it is a slightly better bike in most respects, just traded the S10 in for a KTM1190 - I have far more faith in KTM than BMW (well I do right now, may change my view in the next couple of years - but hoping not to)
The S10 was a pleasure to own and ride and has a very special place in my heart despite its lack of "character", I do not regret buying it and would recommend one without any hesitation or caveats ::008::
You have chosen wisely. As stated earlier, the Yamaha's true character reveals itself on the road when you're many miles into ownership. There are ways to wake the engine up if you feel you need more but for its intended role of commuting, touring and light offroad... the flat torque curve provides plenty of easy acceleration and traction at very low revs. Enjoy your new ride!Ron Earp said:
I'm pretty excited by the ST ES. A major contributor to me choosing the ST ES is a buddy who has an oilhead GSA. He's been happy with it, mostly, but was very unhappy when down for repairs last fall at the peak of riding season. ABS module plus a few other things that kept the bike off the road for more than 50 days. I don't know the circumstances, or if that is normal for BMW dealers, but he was pretty pissed off. That and the fact that in the BMW domain the dollars/feature ratio is not as good as it should be, and, a few of the issues you folks have mentioned have also caused him problems.
I've never been a brand name chaser so what's on the bike doesn't bother me. Yes, I do like bikes with that undefinable "character", but I've been riding those for decades and want a modern machine. Modern machines have more gadgets, nannies, complexity, and sometimes one has to give up a bit of character to have that. So be it.
Looking forward to riding the machine and modifying it to suit my tastes. I believe the first thing that will have to go is the Yamaha luggage for some aluminum panniers, but, I need to inspect the stock pieces first. Just haven't read much nice about the Yamaha pieces but beyond that I have a set of sturdy all aluminum units I can bolt on just sitting in my garage.
I've never been a brand name chaser so what's on the bike doesn't bother me. Yes, I do like bikes with that undefinable "character", but I've been riding those for decades and want a modern machine. Modern machines have more gadgets, nannies, complexity, and sometimes one has to give up a bit of character to have that. So be it.
Looking forward to riding the machine and modifying it to suit my tastes. I believe the first thing that will have to go is the Yamaha luggage for some aluminum panniers, but, I need to inspect the stock pieces first. Just haven't read much nice about the Yamaha pieces but beyond that I have a set of sturdy all aluminum units I can bolt on just sitting in my garage.
Congratulations and now we can really welcome you to the community. You can always be there to tow out your BMW buddy.
And don't forget that your S10 will be able to pass any Starbucks without having to stop, remarkable ::008::
Spork
Member
I've owed a BMW for awhile. I bought my K1200GT with 8k on the clock and sold it 5 years later with 32K for a 2013 FJR.
my list of problems:
Other than that: regular PMs. Always started, always got me home. BMW has issues that it has carried for years (grenading final drives are a big one), ABS failures, other bits and pieces, so anyone contemplating purchasing a new one should visit the BMW forums first and see what's up. I hear that the new water-cooled ones are pretty reliable, but there's really not enough long term data to support the claim.
When I was looking at my new (to me) bike purchase I kept my BMW experience in mind. I would never buy an off-warranty BMW without knowing the previous owner, but I had no problem picking up a 14 ES that didn't have the extended YES warranty purchased (why? I don't know, guy was convinced that it was waste of money for a reliable brand).
my list of problems:
- Came with a bad ECU (found this out later) that had a awful fueling map when the engine was cold (died when you hit the gas), bought an updated ECU from a wrecker ($300)
- The clutch slave took a crap on me. $150 and a few weeks to take half the bike apart.
- Heated seat stopped working... didn't fix it
Other than that: regular PMs. Always started, always got me home. BMW has issues that it has carried for years (grenading final drives are a big one), ABS failures, other bits and pieces, so anyone contemplating purchasing a new one should visit the BMW forums first and see what's up. I hear that the new water-cooled ones are pretty reliable, but there's really not enough long term data to support the claim.
When I was looking at my new (to me) bike purchase I kept my BMW experience in mind. I would never buy an off-warranty BMW without knowing the previous owner, but I had no problem picking up a 14 ES that didn't have the extended YES warranty purchased (why? I don't know, guy was convinced that it was waste of money for a reliable brand).
Wow, what timing, as one of the BMW guys just posted this about his GS final drive on DCStrom's timeline. It's clearly pre water-boxer so not something new.
"Main ball bearing kaputt. That made the wheel a bit wobbly, which in turn broke the final drive seal. Final drive and drive shaft are o.k.[/size]Parts are being flown in from Sweden, I should have the bike back tomorrow afternoon."
"Main ball bearing kaputt. That made the wheel a bit wobbly, which in turn broke the final drive seal. Final drive and drive shaft are o.k.[/size]Parts are being flown in from Sweden, I should have the bike back tomorrow afternoon."
Spork
Member
Yeah the old FDs had some issues due to not always being setup exactly right from the factory. BMW loves them some single-sided swingarms, but cant seem to do them right on a heavy, high-torque, abuse prone application. The incidence rate wasn't terrible from what I remember (there weren't BMWs littered on the highways), but it was there and BMW knew about it since the had about 3 revisions to the FD from 2000 onward.Checkswrecks said:
Don't get me started on the Servo ABS.
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Not really surprising, Yamaha admits when it has a problem...Kwatters said:
ScoutDogMan
New Member
You might want to check out Romney Cycles in Romney, WV for prices. You can but a new S10 in the range you are looking at.
Hi Folks,
Already bought a 2015 ST ES and used it on a trip to the D-Day Memorial. My buddy came along who owns a 1200 GSA, 2010 model, and I spent a few hours on that machine while he tried out the ST. I have to say, I made the right decision and he agrees. I'll write a ST ES newbie review later but suffice to say I'm damn happy.
Ron
Already bought a 2015 ST ES and used it on a trip to the D-Day Memorial. My buddy came along who owns a 1200 GSA, 2010 model, and I spent a few hours on that machine while he tried out the ST. I have to say, I made the right decision and he agrees. I'll write a ST ES newbie review later but suffice to say I'm damn happy.
Ron
Spork
Member
I bought my 14ES from a guy going to a GSA. He said that compared to the old air-cooled boxer, the new (14+) Tenere was better, hands down, but compared to the new water-boxer the GSA wins (so he sold the ES to me ::001:: ). I like the S10ES, but I think it would have a significant challenge in beating a new BMW GSA.Ron Earp said:
Yeah, I don't know enough really to comment on the new ones. I did ride a 2016 GSA and thought it was a very large bike, but, the ride was enjoyable. I think in the end I'm just not that keen on BMW's design and reliability to plunk down the ~$20ishk it takes to own one.
I don't think I'd try and relate recalls to reliability. Recalls are voluntary actions by a company and subjective to many more inputs than "is there a problem?". BMW is notorious for having problems with their automobiles and not issuing a recall, I suspect the practice falls into their motorcycle line as well. Yamaha is consistently rated very high on reliability but also has a larger number of recalls than other companies. That would suggest to me that the company is proactive toward the consumer and realistic about the engineering evaluations.