Bike won't fire. Flooded?

Paulvt1

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I need a little advice. Came to fire the bike up after a week off and it'll crank, but won't fire. There is a slight smell of petrol so i'm guessing it's flooded. Before i start tearing it to bits to get to the plugs, i'm going to leave it overnight (on charge). Can anyone tell me if they can hear any noise from the fuel pump area when they switch their bike on, after the fuel system has gone through it's priming cycle. I can here a small noise which i'm not sure if i have heard before (paranoia..) that sounds like a pump running. There are no ecu dash warning light's illuminated, so i'm hoping it's just an operator error, not a spiked ecu / pump..
 

Motor301

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There are a couple of threads about this issue. Just keep cranking and cranking, with the throttle opened. Eventually it'll start. Took about 15 min for me to get it started about two weeks ago.
 

Paulvt1

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I seem to remember reading something about starting issues a while ago. Odd that it should crop up now..Thanks for the tip guys. Will give it a go with a full battery in the morning.
 

Z06

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The three times mine has done it including yesterday it would not start wide open either. Will start eventually at 1/4 throttle. But it takes awhile. Yesterday put the key in it and it would not start after sitting two weeks. No on off on with switch to cause flooding.
 

Paulvt1

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Thanks to all. I finally got the bike to fire after what seemed like an eternity. Thought i'd got a 2 stroke when it did fire up! Have now given the undertank area a good coating with ACF 50 spray.
Cheers for the help.
 

coastie

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A good practice since you seem to be one of the ones inflicted, would be if you turn the ignition on, start it and let it warm up completely before turning it off. Good luck. I would also keep an eye on the thread here that talks about the problem.
 

Paulvt1

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To be fair - it's the first time in a year and a half it hasn't fired up on the button. I did wash it down and put it away without running it though..
 

racerdell

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I experienced a similar problem with my Tenere yesterday. I returned 3 weeks ago from a 5,000 trip. The bike had been sitting and only started once since my return. I went to ride yesterday and the battery was a little low. It cranked but not quite like usual.
I put the battery tender on over night & tried again this morning. Bike cranked fine but would not fire. I tried three times with throttle closed & 1/4 throttle. No luck. I then held throttle wide open & cranked for 10 seconds. The bike started to fire intermitently. I did this two more times & just kept throttle open. She finally started & ran fine. I kept the bike running for several minutes until the fan cycled on & off. Shut it off & restarted a couple times. All is well.
I surmise the low voltage condition must have affected the ignition circuit or fuel circuit somehow. From now on will keep the tender on when bike sits.
 

Swagger

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I think I'll run this by the Yamaha importers and let them take this up directly with Hamamatsu .... this is such a common occurrence these days and it just isn't right. I've never had it before on any other bike. This would be a disaster if it happened the day I leaving for my European trip. Ordinarily I'd not be phased as I could use a differnt bike but this trip is all about adventure biking and it's the machine booked on to the train.
 

tomatocity

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Swagger said:
I think I'll run this by the Yamaha importers and let them take this up directly with Hamamatsu .... this is such a common occurrence these days and it just isn't right. I've never had it before on any other bike. This would be a disaster if it happened the day I leaving for my European trip. Ordinarily I'd not be phased as I could use a differnt bike but this trip is all about adventure biking and it's the machine booked on to the train.
Wonder if this is also related to "higher fuel consumption during cold weather". If so, you might add this to the list for Hamamatsu.
 

Big Blu

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tomatocity said:
Wonder if this is also related to "higher fuel consumption during cold weather". If so, you might add this to the list for Hamamatsu.
Nope, it's happened to me 2 times here in sunny south Florida and once in North Carolina a few weeks back.
On two occassions the bike had been sitting for a few weeks, not so the 3rd time.

I have better luck starting it with the throttle at 1/2-3/4 opening then at full opening.

Something is wrong here and Yamaha needs to get to the bottom of this.

Regards, Paul
 

EricV

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Paulvt1 said:
To be fair - it's the first time in a year and a half it hasn't fired up on the button. I did wash it down and put it away without running it though..
Ding, Ding, Ding! Classic causative factor for the hard start or failure to start. Most people cause this problem themselves, but w/o even realizing it. Often after washing the bike. You fired it up to move it back into the garage or just for a brief period and then shut the bike down while it was still in cold start sequence. The next time you attempted to start the bike, it flooded. It's a weird condition where the ECU is still in cold start mode from before and then gives the injectors a big squirt of fuel for a new cold start and floods the engine.

The easy solution is to let the bike fully warm up before shutting it down.
 

Z06

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EricV said:
Ding, Ding, Ding! Classic causative factor for the hard start or failure to start. Most people cause this problem themselves, but w/o even realizing it. Often after washing the bike. You fired it up to move it back into the garage or just for a brief period and then shut the bike down while it was still in cold start sequence. The next time you attempted to start the bike, it flooded. It's a weird condition where the ECU is still in cold start mode from before and then gives the injectors a big squirt of fuel for a new cold start and floods the engine.

The easy solution is to let the bike fully warm up before shutting it down.
Mine has never done it on short time restarts. Can cold start it and shut it off and restart many times without warming up the engine with no problem.
Last instance the bike was ridden over 100 miles and parked on a clear sunny day. Had plenty of time to warm up. Turned on key and would not start two weeks later. Was the worst instance of the three times it has happened.
Not saying starting and shutting off cold won't cause it, but not on mine yet. There is more to it than that.
 

EricV

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Z06 said:
Mine has never done it on short time restarts. Can cold start it and shut it off and restart many times without warming up the engine with no problem.
Last instance the bike was ridden over 100 miles and parked on a clear sunny day. Had plenty of time to warm up. Turned on key and would not start two weeks later. Was the worst instance of the three times it has happened.
Not saying starting and shutting off cold won't cause it, but not on mine yet. There is more to it than that.
Do the short run, then shut it off and come back in a couple of days. I'd almost bet money you'll have a hard start. It's not the only set of circumstances that will cause a hard start, but as I said above, it's a classic set of conditions that often does.

Two weeks? Are you sure you remember exactly what you did prior to the hard start? And there is the question of what other issues or conditions may apply in that case? Battery drain from farkles? Other activity - working on the bike, etc. Maybe she was just pissed at you for leaving her sit for 2 weeks? ;)
 

DonTomaso

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This happened to me today as well.
Got home from a 5000 km trip 10 days ago. Washed it and had it running 90 degre celsius hot for a while after that.
Parked it in the garage. Changed the light bowl for the registration plate 3 days ago and turned on the key to check
if the new light bowl was ok at 2 times. First when inserted and second when all was mounted. Did not start it until today.
When doing that the starter was beginning to spin fast as normal but after a few turns it went over in a slower spin mode.
Strange I thought not knowing about this thread/issue.
Oh, found out that I hadn´t picked the GPS off it´s holder (it is connected directly to battery poles). Thinking it might had been
draining the battery some. So I charged the battery and when full I turned the key again. Starter was still in that slow spin mode.
Smelled some petrol so I thought I must have flooded it. Began to look for spark plugs to dry them but to much in the way.
Decided to give it a go again now when battery was fully charged. Had 1/4 throttle for 5 seconds 5-6 times and finally it started
but stopped again when not giving it any throttle. 5-6 try´s again I had to do before it started. Now giving it some throttle
for a minute before letting it idle by itself.
Once is nothing but it worries me a bit now when reading about it here to.
Do we really have to have a battery charger with us when out riding?
 

markjenn

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DonTomaso said:
This happened to me today as well.
Got home from a 5000 km trip 10 days ago. Washed it and had it running 90 degre celsius hot for a while after that.
Parked it in the garage. Changed the light bowl for the registration plate 3 days ago and turned on the key to check
if the new light bowl was ok at 2 times. First when inserted and second when all was mounted. Did not start it until today.
When doing that the starter was beginning to spin fast as normal but after a few turns it went over in a slower spin mode.
Strange I thought not knowing about this thread/issue.
Oh, found out that I hadn´t picked the GPS off it´s holder (it is connected directly to battery poles). Thinking it might had been
draining the battery some. So I charged the battery and when full I turned the key again. Starter was still in that slow spin mode.
Smelled some petrol so I thought I must have flooded it. Began to look for spark plugs to dry them but to much in the way.
Decided to give it a go again now when battery was fully charged. Had 1/4 throttle for 5 seconds 5-6 times and finally it started
but stopped again when not giving it any throttle. 5-6 try´s again I had to do before it started. Now giving it some throttle
for a minute before letting it idle by itself.
Once is nothing but it worries me a bit now when reading about it here to.
Do we really have to have a battery charger with us when out riding?
I'd replace the battery and learn the WOT flooded protocol. Which is: If the bike doesn't start within five seconds or so with the throttle closed, immediately turn the throttle completely wide open (against the throttle stop) and hold it there while you crank until it fires. With a fresh battery and knowing what to do in the rare event you have a problem, this is generally a non-issue.

It's also a good idea to flip the kill switch to off anytime you're screwing around turning the bike on/off without intending to start it.

- Mark
 

EricV

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DonTomaso said:
This happened to me today as well.
Got home from a 5000 km trip 10 days ago. Washed it and had it running 90 degre celsius hot for a while after that.
Parked it in the garage. Changed the light bowl for the registration plate 3 days ago and turned on the key to check
if the new light bowl was ok at 2 times. First when inserted and second when all was mounted. Did not start it until today.
When doing that the starter was beginning to spin fast as normal but after a few turns it went over in a slower spin mode.
Strange I thought not knowing about this thread/issue.
Oh, found out that I hadn´t picked the GPS off it´s holder (it is connected directly to battery poles). Thinking it might had been
draining the battery some. So I charged the battery and when full I turned the key again. Starter was still in that slow spin mode.
Smelled some petrol so I thought I must have flooded it. Began to look for spark plugs to dry them but to much in the way.
Decided to give it a go again now when battery was fully charged. Had 1/4 throttle for 5 seconds 5-6 times and finally it started
but stopped again when not giving it any throttle. 5-6 try´s again I had to do before it started. Now giving it some throttle
for a minute before letting it idle by itself.
Once is nothing but it worries me a bit now when reading about it here to.
Do we really have to have a battery charger with us when out riding?
I can understand your concern. That said, don't stress about it. You did a couple of things that are classic known methods that often, but not always, cause the classic hard start/flooded condition. 1. You washed the bike, then fired it up for a bit, then shut it down and left it for a few days. 2. You cycled the key switch a few times w/o starting the bike when checking the new lights, but didn't fire the bike up and let it fully warm up.

Another aspect that is sometimes forgotten is that when we first try to start the bike, the headlights are OFF, but unless you turned the key completely off before trying to crank it again, you were cranking with the headlights ON. That means the voltage was significantly lower, possibly too low to allow the ECU to fire the injectors or just too low for a good spark.

Last week, at the top of Moose Pass, YT, in the rain, when departing from a hotel, I forgot the put the side stand up and dropped it into first gear, to naturally have the engine die. Doh! The bike had been outside all night in the rain, and it was only about 48F, so it had been a slow crank to fire up to begin with, now the battery was low and the bike was still cold, and it hadn't finished the warm up cycle either.... no start. I cranked a few times with no joy, then shut it down, full well knowing what I had caused. After I pushed her to the top of the parking lot, then scouted out which way was a shorter push to roll down the Hwy, I figured I'd try one more time. Well, wouldn't you know it, w/o the headlights on, she grumbled to life with just a bit of open throttle. No more pushing for me!

That was the only time in an 8k mile trip, parked outside every night, that I had a hard/no start. Even with a new battery the bikes don't spin the starter that fast. Unless you killed the battery flat with the GPS drain, I very much doubt you need a new battery.
 

DonTomaso

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Is there some magic involved in the WOT procedure? :eek:
I mean, wont open the throttle increase the petrol intake and make it even more flooded.

Kill switch is noted. I did not know the petrol pump was involved when thats set to "on".

Eric, can you explain more about the headlight on/off function, I did not really understand
whats happening when turning key or not.
 
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