Batteries

[Toxic Mark]

I'm lucky enough to own several bikes but unlucky enough to not have a ton of time to ride them all frequently enough to keep their batteries charged just from regular use. In a nutshell my batteries keep dying. Should I keep with lead acid batteries or switch to AGM batteries or get a Medusa of SAE connectors and keep all of my bikes on trickle 24/7? Are most of you fine with lead acid batteries in your S-10?

Any input would be appreciated.

-Mark

 

[Checkswrecks]

While there's nothing wrong with lead acid and AGM is better in holding a charge and discharge profile, if you let either keep fully discharging you are shortening their lives and wasting your money.


I'm sure this will turn into a oil-like battery thread shortly, but that's the bottom line answer to your question.

 

[~TABASCO~]

I've slowly started switching to Shorai batteries, been very happy.

 

[Toxic Mark]

Is it okay to keep the bikes on trickle for the whole time you are not riding it (I.e, park it in the garage, plug it in, unplug it when I go ride)?

 

[Bushyar15]

In the past couple years, I've only had to replace a battery once and I already had a spare old-school acid type battery. I keep all my bikes on battery tenders when I'm not riding. I've had one bike basically on a tender for over a year full-time. Starting it once to show someone it worked. I don't tend to ride much during the winter, so my bikes can sit for several months at a time on the battery tender without being started. Otherwise my bikes stay on tenders year-round with no issues…

When it comes time to replace this batch of batteries, I'll look at some of the newer style/type batteries, but not until I have to..

 

[sparkyduc]

I keep all me bikes on battery tenders, even connect them just overnite. Batteries normally last 4-6 years.

 

[Chuck B]

My normal 'stable' has 4-6 bikes. The last year or so its expanded to 12 bikes. While I've switched to LiFePo's a number of years ago there are plus/minus' to each battery chemistry. Regardless, all should be placed on a maintainer if they are not used on a regular basis. I personally would not choose a wet cell lead acid for my Tenere...

 

[Magilla]

I have two bikes and they both get plugged in after every ride. I use a CTEK charger that I really like. ::008::

 

[mrpete64]

I keep my bikes on a battery charger at all times. I know it is wise to replace any battery, including your car/truck, every three years. They tend to sulfide out and short out the plates...and then ruin the alternator. Replacing a battery is cheap compared to all the other options. Two "old" guys both told me, at different times, that they thought an alternator, especially one made by the Japanese, would last almost forever if the battery got swapped out ever 36 months...regardless if it was a 72 month battery or not. I use a battery Tender system that has four? hookups.
I do this religiously with my truck and cars.

I also put the date I get a battery on each so that I know when I purchased it. It is very easy, especially at my age, to forget exactly when one purchased it. So, I print out the purchase date, and then put it on my battery with clear tape. It is amazing how many times I have looked at a battery and went...holy sh*t...three years has passed already!!
I do know know about the new kind of battery that has been out in the past few years that is much lighter...and suppose to last...longer. I guess if weight is a major issue they might be worth the price.

Mr. Pete------.
aging hippie

 

[markjenn]

I know it is wise to replace any battery, including your car/truck, every three years.

This is extremely conservative. In normal use (meaning a vehicle that is either very regularly used or put on a charger), I think five years is probably plenty sufficient and even this may be overkill; it is common for a properly-mounted and maintained battery in a frequently used vehicle to go a decade or more without any problem. And I think you'd be hard-pressed to come up with any data that shows such an aggressive replacement schedule is necessary to protect the electrical system.

Another consideration is that today's AGMs are much more tolerant of discharge events than conventional "wet" batteries. The self-discharge rate of AGMs is about 1/5th the rate for a wet battery and this tends to drastically reduce the amount of time and degree a battery sits in a discharged condition which is the big contributor to premature failure.

- Mark

 

[EricV]

Is it okay to keep the bikes on trickle for the whole time you are not riding it (I.e, park it in the garage, plug it in, unplug it when I go ride)?

I'll try to add some new points and info. To answer your question, Yes and No. It is NOT ok to leave a battery on a basic trickle charger all the time. It will charge to a lower and lower voltage, but not stop charging and that can overheat the battery and cause a loss of acid, even in a sealed AGM battery.

Considering the S10 battery is mounted on it's side, I'm pretty sure we all got AGM batteries from the factory and no liquid acid batteries are being used. I have a lower CCA 'spare' that I keep in the box and on a block of wood and charge occasionally, but even though it was smaller and lower CCAs, it would start the bike with about the same effort.

It IS ok to leave it on a maintenance charger all the time. Maintenance chargers charge as needed, and 'float' when the battery is fully charged. When they sense a drop in voltage, then begin the charging routine again. Good maintenance chargers like Optimate also have a desulfating routine. When they detect a build up, they run a special routine that charges at a higher rate to knock off the build up and re-optimize the battery. I have kept bikes plugged in when ever not in use and gotten 9 years out of the OEM battery with only 3 desulfate routines being run, one when it was first hooked up to the Optimate III, at some point in the middle of that 9 years and near the end. The battery tested fine at 9 years old, (I was selling the bike and considered installing a new battery as a selling point, but nothing could be found wrong with the original one. A couple of years later, it's still in the bike with the new owner).

I like the concept of LiFe, (Lithium Iron), moto batteries, but they are expensive and do require a specific charger. They lose charge very slowly when sitting. On a cold day, they may require creating a draw to warm the battery before it will have the oomph to crank the engine. I suspect this is mostly not an issue, except for conditions where the bike sat outside all night in cold temps, or winter storage, but it is a real issue. I spoke to Shorai about it and they suggested either switching on some aux lights, or a quick crank attempt to get the headlights on, then leave the key on, lights on for a minuted or two, then cycle the key and try again.

I have purchased a Shorai LiFe battery for a different bike, (Big Dog Chopper), but it didn't have the power to crank the, (new, never fired), engine once it had oil pressure when cold. Tried the suggested trick, but no go. They gave me a full refund when I sent the battery back. It's an impressive piece of technology, and it's almost like you got an empty plastic case when you first take it out of the box, it's so light.

 

[wfopete]

Yeah, LiFe don't like cold temps. They get significantly stronger as they get used (cranked, lights on etc).

 

[duggram]

I've slowly started switching to Shorai batteries, been very happy.

I heard that Shorai loses it's charge when it gets cold. And I heard this after I bought one for my WR450. I've never had it really cold and I usually kick start it first so I haven't seen an issue. Have you had yours really cold and noticed it lose charge?

 

[Checkswrecks]

I heard that Shorai loses it's charge when it gets cold. And I heard this after I bought one for my WR450. I've never had it really cold and I usually kick start it first so I haven't seen an issue. Have you had yours really cold and noticed it lose charge?

Lithium batteries become less efficient but they don't "lose" their charge when cold. The ions are still on one plate and for a couple of reasons, cold inhibits the electrochemical process which moves the ions to move to the other plate. If the ions can't move, they can not release the electric power in useful form.

 

[duggram]

Lithium batteries become less efficient but they don't "lose" their charge when cold. The ions are still on one plate and for a couple of reasons, cold inhibits the electrochemical process which moves the ions to move to the other plate. If the ions can't move, they can not release the electric power in useful form.

Thank you for the comment.

So what is the battery type that will be the most efficient as it gets colder? I want to ride all winter. I carry motocycle jumpers but what if I'm camped off road and AAA can't make to where I am?

 

[Checkswrecks]

No question - get an AGM.


We have two basic battery types available; AGM and lithium ion. The AGMs are lead-acid chemistry, just like the old cells with the removable caps, but with improvements which inhibit plate warpage and sulfidation. This is why the AGMs last years longer than the old batteries. They also are sealed and need to be to go into the rotated Tenere mounting.


The lithium batteries are great for lowest weight (think cell phones and motocross bikes) and have a flat discharge curve through the range/state of charge. That flat discharge curve mean that your starter motor will have one speed - fast - until the cell is discharged. In a 600 pound bike, the weight really doesn't make a difference and a correctly sized AGM (per Yamaha spec) will also start you every time.


While both battery types lose capacity when cold, the bike designers simply install a slightly bigger capacity lead acid or AGM, knowing there are guys like you. Battery capacities are typically specified for room temp and charting the loss of capacity for cold (<5C) Li-ion is much steeper (worse). The main reason is that Li-ion electrolyte is a very light petroleum that feels similar to a thin baby oil or like a clear version of transmission fluid. Suspended in the oil are the lithium ions. The oil thickens as temperatures fall below about 0C, making it harder for the ions to move and the internal resistance of the cell increases almost exponentially and the efficiency of the cell decreases. If you discharge a cold lithium cell, I've seen tests where about 30% of the energy goes into heat within the cell.


Lithium ion cells also are more difficult to control the charge and if damaged can overheat or burn, where lead-acid general just shorts internally and becomes unusable. Li batteries should not contain actual lithium metal and if there is a fire, it is the electrolyte oil which burns.

 

[Chuck B]

I lived/breathed batteries for 10+yrs (manufacturer). I've switched all my bikes to LiFePo. I do keep a couple bikes at my one home that experiences very cold weather and yes, they get used during that time frame. Using them is no big deal....I walk out and flip the key on then walk back inside and continue getting dressed/ready. Walk back out and it fires like its 80F outside. That said, there are positive/negatives of each battery type. I can certainly see going with a good AGM and maint charger as best package for most owners.

 

[corndog]

I have a weekly ridden Honda Rincon 650 ATV with the original OEM AGM Yuasa battery. The ATV was purchased in late 2002 and the battery still cranks fine as of last night. It has never seen a trickle charger.

The exact same battery puked with no warning in a more than weekly ridden Vstrom 1000 at the 4 year mark. Also never seen a trickle charger. No auxiliary electrics on either machine.

I have a brother and a friend who own big BMW GS bikes (yeah don't even go there) that both run some pricey lithium space shuttle batteries. Each year we ride at least one ride in the dead of winter (between Xmas and New Years day) to the Smoky mountains and both bikes, even when warmed, would barely start 2 years in a row. The Vstrom kicked right over every time.

There is some voodoo involved in batteries.

Now I have the superten. Once I found the battery I assumed it was an AGM. We will see how it does this winter, I ride too much to need a trickle charger. I carry a small set of jumper cables I hope to never need.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

So it's looking like I'll be storing my lithium ion battery equipped WR250 for the winter. Don't plan to ride it over the winter. Do I bring the battery inside where it's warm and dry, or is it okay to leave it outside in the cold and expect it to be fine in the spring?

 

[Toxic Mark]

I think I will go with AGM batteries, since they are more robust than wet lead iron and I can keep my same Battery Tender. Now onto brand...Motobatt, Odyssey, Varta?

Opinions?