Anyone NOT like their ST10 after trading in their R1200?

[lapi]

Hello all,

I'm asking about two bikes I'm considering (I own a DL650). The R1200 has been my goal but the ST10(what is the nickname for this bike anyway?) looks better for the obvious reasons; price, availability of service, cost of service. It seem like a lot of folks love the bike. I sat on one today and didn't get the same feeling I got from the R1200. The R1200 seemed to be a sturdier build with higher craftsmanship than my WeeStrom, a significant build quality difference. Even before riding the R1200 I had that sense. I did test ride the BMW eventually and loved it. The ST10 felt like a wide VStrom- didn't hurt that its the same color blue as my bike. Perhaps its the legacy of the BMW marketing affecting my perceptions.

Is build quality a non-issue for those of you who have stepped away from the BMW or another similar class bike? Do you find the Yamaha as rugged of a build and design principle?

I'd really love to hear from any one who isn't merely ecstatic about the bike. Of course, if you are I'd love to hear that too. Seems like I read a few negative reviews of the 2010 ST, softness of throttle, etc etc. Has the newer ST10 improved anything significant for you guys?

Thanks !!!!

 

[big dave]

I paid a supplement to buy my S10 (UK pricing is way different to the US) primarily because I didn't want a BMW.

BD

 

[colorider]

Welcome aboard lapi!!

I never owned a R1200, but did own one of the earlier R1150GSA's. The early ones were not in the same class as the present one (or even close, I'm told), but still there was really no question in my mind that I wanted the SuperT (or whatever your name of choice is) over the BMW. The long term reliability and the dealer network (plus the price difference) was more than enough to sway me toward the Yamaha - plus I have had nothing short of complete satisfaction with every Yamaha I have owned in the past.


Good Luck!!!

 

[Bundu]

Look, they are both superb bikes - I owned two BMW's before I got my S10 and I test rode the R12GS, R12GSA and KTM 990 each for a couple of hours before the S10 - nearly didn't even test the S10, as I was worried about the weight - After my S10 ride, I didn't even think about it further and just ordered one - have not regretted it for a second - In SA BMW service is better and when BMW bring out a bike that I believe is better than the S10, I'll be one of the 1st to buy it

 

[bloke]

you say R1200 which one? GS RT S or R?

i owned two GS1200s before this (and two V stroms) and i wouldn't go back now i like my S10 more everyday

 

[nankoweap]

i didn't test ride an r12gs/a years ago because i knew i'd want one. in retrospect, that was a good decision.

i do have an r1150gsa with 130k on the clock and it has been a stellar bike. it's still one of the funnest bikes in the garage and has been mostly reliable. the only mechanical issues have been the final drive blowing chunks at 32k and now the horn won't work.

i had a vstrom 1k a few years back. it was a great bike, but the engine didn't like me and it blew chunks at ~48k. i'd own another vstrom if the big boy came with abs and the tenere wasn't made available to the u-s.

i haven't had the tenere long, but it's going to do just fine and is shaping up into a fine bike. i like the reliability, abs, traction control, engine, shaft drive, dealer network, etc, etc. i don't see this bike spending the night in anyone's garage except my own.

 

[justbob]

I put 80,000 miles on a R1200 (RT) , it was the best motorcycle I have ever owned and it was also the worst.
Ride quality, handling, fuel mileage and fuel range were excellent. The transmission seals leaked and contaminated the clutch, fortunately that was right near the end of the warranty period and BMW covered that repair which I was told would have cost me in the $1500 to $2000 price range. The lower left throttle cable frayed and broke which left me stranded on the road. The ESA quit working twice, both times it required connecting to a BMW dealer computer to recalibrate it and make it functional again. The Final drive failed in the middle of a trip thru the Everglades, leaving me stranded again. I was aware of the potential for failure with this part and had purchased a spare unit from a crashed bike. A lot of guys that I know with BMW's have experienced FD failures, some multiple times. This bike required more repairs than the last 5 or 6 bikes I owned, combined.
I have only had my Tenere for 10 days and 1600 miles but so far am really really pleased with the overall fit and function and the grin factor.

 

[Twisties]

I have the R1200 RT and Super Tenere. Wife has the F650 GS. Also I rented an R1200 GS for a week.

Looks are deceiving. The BMW looks more refined than the S10, but it is not, IMHO. I purchased the S10 on impulse (more or less, I was looking for a dual sport but had thinking Wee or F800 GS). So I hadn't read the product literature. Then I saw this after about 600 miles on the S10:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/advantages/super_tenere_bmw_advantages.aspx

and I thought wow. That's exactly right on. Just what I have been saying. I can not overstate how nice it is to have a bike with good throttle control, a tranny geared in the right ranges, a tranny that is smooth and doesn't balk, mirrors that work (an RT thing, GS should be ok). Power and quickness and engine vibration are all in favor of the S10 too, I think. Need to ride them side by side to be sure.

Add in dealer network issues, cost of parts, service requirements, ease of service, specialized tool requirements, etc and it begins to get to be a no brainer.

 

[nankoweap]

Looks are deceiving. The BMW looks more refined than the S10, but it is not, IMHO. I purchased the S10 on impulse (more or less, I was looking for a dual sport but had thinking Wee or F800 GS). So I hadn't read the product literature. Then I saw this after about 600 miles on the S10:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/advantages/super_tenere_bmw_advantages.aspx

and I thought wow. That's exactly right on. Just what I have been saying.

i haven't seen that. nice comparison and spot on. i never thought i'd ride a bike with better brakes than a beemer, but this tenere is some stiff competition. and the 6th speed is excellent for chewing up some miles.

 

[big dave]

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/advantages/super_tenere_bmw_advantages.aspx

Nice link, great ammo there for the bar/pub arguments

BD

 

[Dagny_Taggart]

I still have a R1200GSA and I still love that bike. It has been dead nuts reliable for 25,000 miles but I am tired of some things "BMW". I like having my Yammie dealer close... close enough to be able to drop it off and catch a ride to work. I like the fact that all the scheduled service is covered in the owner's manual (including servicing the final drive) and I can get the diagnostic codes without spending $400 or going to the dealer. I'm betting I don't need special tools to do anything on the Yamaha.

I miss factory installed heated grips... I miss the old style BMW switch gear... I miss my stainless steel braided lines (that can be fixed)... I miss quality bags keyed to the ignition (Yamaha is going to improve that next time around).

On the other hand, I rate the Yammie's ABS above the BMW based on one "moguled street" that I ride where the BMW's brakes don't help me stop...and the Yammies act like real brakes. My BMW doesn't have ASC (traction control) so I will not compare traction control... other than to say I liked it in the rain the other day.

I rate the suspension as better on the S10 but I think that is because it doesn't have 25k on it.

I like the higher electrical power on the BMW... I'm going to miss that this winter and it is driving me toward LED aux lights.

BMW gets the nod toward accurate speedometers. Come on Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki... I know you can make precise speedometers, I'm an adult and I would like accuracy as well. It just pisses me off, I have to do mental math on the S10.

The S10 appears to be getting slightly better mileage. The BMW consistently gets 39mpg. I measure over time... not per the optimistic readout on each bike nor on one tank.

I don't miss the gear indicator as much as I thought I would... the S10 transmission/engine make it pretty easy.

Both are great bikes... I'm looking forward to my first long trip on the S10.

 

[Twisties]

I like the higher electrical power on the BMW... I'm going to miss that this winter and it is driving me toward LED aux lights.

BMW gets the nod toward accurate speedometers. Come on Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki... I know you can make precise speedometers, I'm an adult and I would like accuracy as well. It just pisses me off, I have to do mental math on the S10.

I thought the S10 is putting out about 600W? Isn't that in the same ballpark as the BMW? I believe it's pretty close to what my RT does, though I'd have to look it up. My S10 speedo is much more accurate than my RT. BMW speedos are intentionally set low except on police bikes. I'm as much as 6-8 mph low on the RT. The S10 seems to be between 2-3 mph low. Base this on the local radar sign posts.

 

[Dagny_Taggart]

The GSA puts out 720W; the S10 585W.

My GSA reads consistently 2mph high which is pretty easy to compensate for.

The Yam is between 5% and 10%. Just got the better GPS installed so I will be able to do a better job in "mental calibration." Most of my European bikes have been pretty accurate. All of my Japanese bikes have just been stupidly optimistic.

 

[Bundu]

The GSA puts out 720W; the S10 585W.

My GSA reads consistently 2mph high which is pretty easy to compensate for.

The Yam is between 5% and 10%. Just got the better GPS installed so I will be able to do a better job in "mental calibration." Most of my European bikes have been pretty accurate. All of my Japanese bikes have just been stupidly optimistic.

I think the S10 spec is 14V 42.9A, which is 600W

My BMW's speedo's have always been only slightly high, between 2 and 4% - My S10 is 8% high, through the speed range

 

[kgfire]

The truth is the GS is a great bike and the ST is probably going to be a great bike. I've owned several BMW's and Yamahas over the years and never had a bit of trouble with either brand. If you read these forums then you will be convinced that every BMW ever made has exploding final drives and so far from what I've read on this forum the ST's run hot, ping badly, and have wildly inaccurate speedometers. For me it all comes down to the test ride and the dealer support. Yamaha has always made great products and right now the ST looks like a winner. My only gripe with the BMW's is they are so friggin' expensive!

 

[barkingllizard]

I agree with ColoRider 's statements above.

After ten months of research and comparing to everything available here,
and really thinking about the riding I wanted to do, I ended up buying the Super Tenere
without a demo ride.

 

[Combo]

I agree with ColoRider 's statements above.

After ten months of research and comparing to everything available here,
and really thinking about the riding I wanted to do, I ended up buying the Super Tenere
without a demo ride.

Not all those who wander are lost. – J.R.R. Tolkien
Wandering re-establishes the original harmony which once existed between man and the universe. - Anatole France
When you’re traveling, you are what you are, right there and then. No yesterdays on the road. – William Least Heat Moon

)

Sorry, but I could not help myself. I went what the #%%*#$#% every time you posted that.

I did the same thing after reading about it over seas and ordered September 1st and I am very glad I did. I love this bike. 8)

 

[yammie]

I few things i'd like the s10 to have that's on the bmw although I still like my s10
1) Handlebar switches for the meter.
2) A lever for instant lowering of the main beam when fitted with loaded luggages and two up.
3) Auto cancellation of indicator lights

 

[1200ST]

My typical weekend ride is about 350 miles (~550 KM) for me.
The 1200GS is a great Bike, tried and true, a bit expensive, and it costs a lot to service. It is solid and heavy.

After riding my new 2012 ST, I have to say the ST is superior when it comes to the weekend ride.
Dollar for Dollar, if i had to do it all over again, I would have skipped the GS and only had a Super Tenere.
Plus - No extra charge for my all black ST.

 

[colorider]

My typical weekend ride is about 350 miles (~550 KM) for me.
The 1200GS is a great Bike, tried and true, a bit expensive, and it costs a lot to service. It is solid and heavy.

After riding my new 2012 ST, I have to say the ST is superior when it comes to the weekend ride.
Dollar for Dollar, if i had to do it all over again, I would have skipped the GS and only had a Super Tenere.
Plus - No extra charge for my all black ST.

Welcome to the Forum and thanks for the comparo between the two bikes!