I understand your feelings (I've been riding for more than 40 years). If you want to stick with that plan, just don't ever ride a bike with DCT. ::013::
Sincerely,
Lazy Dipfrick
Sincerely,
Lazy Dipfrick
Africa Twin
- Thread starter tman
- Start date
scott123007
Well-Known Member
Geez Ron, I bet you must have been pissed when bikes went from suicide shifts to when you had to use your foot to change gears. LOL
It always interests me in what riders find as priorities when buying a bike. I think there is a bit of a division between riders that buy bikes primarily for sport vs touring, commuting, or cruising around. It seems that sport riders welcome advances in the type of technology that makes their ability to get the most out of the bike a little more efficiently (ABS, traction control, ride modes, and now DCT, which I think will be the future) while the touring, commuting, and cruiser contingent are focused more toward ease of maintenance and repair (shaft vs chain, tubeless vs tubed tires, etc.) Of course there is overlap in all of this, but it is interesting to see this division none the less.
It always interests me in what riders find as priorities when buying a bike. I think there is a bit of a division between riders that buy bikes primarily for sport vs touring, commuting, or cruising around. It seems that sport riders welcome advances in the type of technology that makes their ability to get the most out of the bike a little more efficiently (ABS, traction control, ride modes, and now DCT, which I think will be the future) while the touring, commuting, and cruiser contingent are focused more toward ease of maintenance and repair (shaft vs chain, tubeless vs tubed tires, etc.) Of course there is overlap in all of this, but it is interesting to see this division none the less.
No one should be surprised at RonH's take on the DCT. I know I'm not.
I think I'd be depressed if he'd spoke highly of it.
I love that guy. He anchors this place.
I think I'd be depressed if he'd spoke highly of it.
I love that guy. He anchors this place.
Defekticon
Active Member
Bold statement ahead: The 6r140 in my F250 is faster and more intelligent than any individual behind a zf six speed. I tow a heavy 5th wheel with my Superduty. I've never seen an automatic transmission perform as well as this on incline, decline. It works with the brake controller for sway control and emergency braking extremely well. I absolutely felt the same way you do about truck transmissions. After owning a Chevy truck with a car transmission (4L60e) for 7 years I wanted the six speed when I bought my SD, but settled for the automatic. Not disappointed at all, and totally changed my close minded opinion. I'm willing to bet a DCT Africa Twin is the same revolution in technology, from everything I've read so far it is.RonH said:
Excellent post\point defekticon.
It seems like transmissions are currently going through a golden era of development. And right on the tail of a recent and amazing increase in internal combustion engine engineering, over the last 5+ years.
Regardless of what is fueling this crazy leap past the previous boundaries, it's amazing what the consumer now has access to. I recently did about a 40 day road trip in a new 1/2 ton towing fairly light, but through the mountains and was just amazed at the prowess these new packages have for the varying conditions and loads. I was in a small gen2 ecoboost with a 6-speed auto pulling a very light camper. The experience was just amazing. Zero drama. How they get that much torque at that low of rpm and smoothly handle the proper gear ratio up and down, all while barely sipping 87 octane? It's just crazy.
I was SO skeptical of what I was reading. But I'm a believer now. Auto and truck manufacturers are really pushing the envelope rapidly right now.
And that DCT on the AT isn't Hondas first iteration of that tech. They've been working it for some time now. I'm really curious about it.
Having said all that, RonH ain't gonna give in!
It seems like transmissions are currently going through a golden era of development. And right on the tail of a recent and amazing increase in internal combustion engine engineering, over the last 5+ years.
Regardless of what is fueling this crazy leap past the previous boundaries, it's amazing what the consumer now has access to. I recently did about a 40 day road trip in a new 1/2 ton towing fairly light, but through the mountains and was just amazed at the prowess these new packages have for the varying conditions and loads. I was in a small gen2 ecoboost with a 6-speed auto pulling a very light camper. The experience was just amazing. Zero drama. How they get that much torque at that low of rpm and smoothly handle the proper gear ratio up and down, all while barely sipping 87 octane? It's just crazy.
I was SO skeptical of what I was reading. But I'm a believer now. Auto and truck manufacturers are really pushing the envelope rapidly right now.
And that DCT on the AT isn't Hondas first iteration of that tech. They've been working it for some time now. I'm really curious about it.
Having said all that, RonH ain't gonna give in!
greg the pole
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
I'd still take a clutch for the technical work, clutch slip etc..snakebitten said:
The dct has advantages , but it's higher cost, weight, and a bit more maintenance
If it wasn't for all the overlap I already have, I'd probably follow you on this. But a Tenere on one end, the 500EXC on the other, and the 950 Super Endure and DR400E...................... well, you get the idea. I think I'd lay in bed at night wondering why I passed on something I coulda experienced.greg the pole said:
Or put another way, if I really was relegated to a ONE bike person, and that one bike was the AT, I'm 99% sure I go the other way. I'd not be willing to give up the clutch.
greg the pole
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
I hear you.snakebitten said:If it wasn't for all the overlap I already have, I'd probably follow you on this. But a Tenere on one end, the 500EXC on the other, and the 950 Super Endure and DR400E...................... well, you get the idea. I think I'd lay in bed at night wondering why I passed on something I coulda experienced.
Or put another way, if I really was relegated to a ONE bike person, and that one bike was the AT, I'm 99% sure I go the other way. I'd not be willing to give up the clutch.
That said, the KTM take well to full throttle clutchless shifts, especially the dirt bikes ::015::
greg the pole said:
True dat. The 690 is easier to shift clutchless.
snakebitten said:
I got a 2016 F150 with the auto 6 speed, because dragging up the Baltimore Washington Parkway with a stick for a couple of hours of rush hour hell is horrible and I couldn't be happier with the result. That 6 speed always is spot on and with ECU and ratios the mpg is amazing. My overall average is something like 22.9 mpg mixed driving, yet it tows the small trailers I've tried effortlessly.
Having ridden a Honda CrossTourer 1200 with DCT, I'll stick to a manual for the bikes at this point.
Harry Dresden PI
New Member
A few times I year we have a Police Rodeo type course set up.
Such low speed, paved, tight courses tend to require being in the "friction" zone on the manual clutch for a few minutes.
Anyone know how well a DCT handles the friction zone during police rodeo type course riding?
Such low speed, paved, tight courses tend to require being in the "friction" zone on the manual clutch for a few minutes.
Anyone know how well a DCT handles the friction zone during police rodeo type course riding?
The rear brake serves as the friction zone when necessary. The tricky part is righthand u-turns as you can't rely on your leg to dab. Of course if your balance is up to the task it won't be a problem.Harry Dresden PI said:
Makes sense twinrider. I think.
Used to race dirt cars when I was younger. Chevy 350's burning alcohol and auto transmission. To get through the turns without upsetting the balance, we'd stay on the gas but load the brakes too. Actually using the brakes to drag the motor down, yet not throw all the weight on the front of the car and have a bunch of oversteer to deal with.
In a strange way I can imagine using the rear brake on the dct AT in similar ways.
Brake rotors will be wear items during aggressive riding!
Used to race dirt cars when I was younger. Chevy 350's burning alcohol and auto transmission. To get through the turns without upsetting the balance, we'd stay on the gas but load the brakes too. Actually using the brakes to drag the motor down, yet not throw all the weight on the front of the car and have a bunch of oversteer to deal with.
In a strange way I can imagine using the rear brake on the dct AT in similar ways.
Brake rotors will be wear items during aggressive riding!
eemsreno
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
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A motorcycle with no clutch, automatic suspension, all this traction control, what’s next? might as well take the bus if you don’t like riding a real bike.
eemsreno said:A motorcycle with no clutch, automatic suspension, all this traction control, what’s next? might as well take the bus if you don’t like riding a real bike.
You REALLY need to ride a Zero DRS! Regular suspension, no shifter, and you can easily change the power and traction control. It's a little torque monster and more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
Nobody is gonna change Stevereno's mind on any of this stuff.
Him and RonH are more old-school dinosaur than me.
They like to ride it like ya brung it.
Him and RonH are more old-school dinosaur than me.
They like to ride it like ya brung it.
eemsreno
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Amen Brother!snakebitten said:
And Bob, I have ridden a Zero ,,,,,, It scored Zero
eemsreno
Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
I do like some modern bikes.
I have a 2017 125SX and it's fantastic! and it even has a real clutch.
I have a 2017 125SX and it's fantastic! and it even has a real clutch.
Attachments
Look at the ole-man roosting!
Well, that's kind of cheating since Orange bikes come out of the crate far more ready to ride-it-like-it-came.
What are you doing with an Orange bike? I wasn't expecting that.
Well, that's kind of cheating since Orange bikes come out of the crate far more ready to ride-it-like-it-came.
What are you doing with an Orange bike? I wasn't expecting that.
eemsreno said:A motorcycle with no clutch, automatic suspension, all this traction control, what’s next? might as well take the bus if you don’t like riding a real bike.
Spoken like a true motorcyclist................................................................who's never ridden a bike with DCT. ;D