Concur. Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) is the BEST!BaldEagle said:
ADV shootout
- Thread starter Buckeye56
- Start date
One of our local TV anchors, when answering a question on the level of intelligence in local news reporting, said about the same thing. They feel the need to dumb it down a bit to reach a larger audience. Sad....~TABASCO~ said:
Yamaguy55
No difficult problems, just difficult people
I guess I wasn't clear on my reasons. A while back, I remarked to someone that CRs car picks tended not to reflect anything but short-term, lab use. He countered that his previous position sold products that wre CR recommended, and were the poorest products offered in his store. I found more and more ofthis.markjenn said:
If I were to believe any auto tests, it would have been Popular Mechanics, but they have become more PC in their reporting as well.
I say cultish due to the absolute blind faith often given to their opinions. The unnamed auto I referred to was "recommended" and promptly disassembled itself as my company car, exatly the same as my coworkers that had them. Some recommendation. I had a subscription at that point, let them know that it wasn't accurate, was told their tests were accurate, and my findings were not normal. I replied that eight of us with the same vehicle had nothing but problems with them, hardly a rare event, more like a real trend. Got blown off. I gave CR the benefit of the doubt, but paid more attention to their "top picks" and found more of the same. To be clear: I don't care that they didn't believe me, but did care thst there seemed to be a trend of infallible hubris at work here. I decided I didn't need thought police giving me their take on reality, and cancelled my subscription to the politboro's publication.
Again, I'm not selling this, just no longer believing their opinions.
Yamaguy55
No difficult problems, just difficult people
Back to the thread. Sorry about that. It would be nice if the tests in the MC mags would do honest objective tests. This is not a new problem. In the late sixties and early seventies, they were a little better, but the car rags had already signed on to the dark side. I had a subscription to an automobile publication, read it cover to cover drooling all over it. A few years later, I professionally repaired these same cars, they weren't so hot then.
Most magazines of any technical subject tend not to say negative things about any product these days. You would think at least the on-line ones would attempt to be objective.
However, the flip side is most people want to hear what they want to hear. And get aggravated when they don't. I tend to do my own legwork and live with my own decisions.
Originally, Dirt Bike Magazine under Super Hunky was quite accurate, but the magazine hasn't kept that level of objectivity. I miss the old days when bikes were crap and reports were accurate. Now the bikes are great and the reports are phooey.
Seriously: when was the last time you rode a truly awful modern bike?
Most magazines of any technical subject tend not to say negative things about any product these days. You would think at least the on-line ones would attempt to be objective.
However, the flip side is most people want to hear what they want to hear. And get aggravated when they don't. I tend to do my own legwork and live with my own decisions.
Originally, Dirt Bike Magazine under Super Hunky was quite accurate, but the magazine hasn't kept that level of objectivity. I miss the old days when bikes were crap and reports were accurate. Now the bikes are great and the reports are phooey.
Seriously: when was the last time you rode a truly awful modern bike?
cbrunsw
New Member
These comparo's seem to never take into account reliability and dealer network.
I understand better what you're saying and somewhat agree. The readers can be "cultish". But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater - CR is still BY FAR the most objective and thorough product testing organization around - their reliability data isn't perfect but its the best, perhaps the only, thing around. It's definitely worth reading if you're buying something, along with other sources and one's own take on products. I don't think it has an agenda like many publications and obviously the fact they don't take advertising has to count for something.Yamaguy55 said:
And they don't do motorcycles, so its all pretty academic anyway. I do like MCN.
- Mark
I think when the magazines do these multi-bike shoot-out type reviews they should randomly choose a reader into the test rider group to get a real user review. I was hesitant to get the ST10 as I have always been a Honda follower, but after spending 6 months reading all I could find on the web about current Yamaha bikes, and the real owner remarks from people like Wasp, I was sold on the prospect of ditching Honda and getting the ST.
It would be nice if these magazines/web sites gave fully transparent and objective reviews but that does not seem like it will ever happen until a source comes along that is not advertising driven to taint the objectivity of the reviewers. Nothing against these writers, they may not even catch the reviews are lacking from a real long-term user/owner perspective.
It would be nice if these magazines/web sites gave fully transparent and objective reviews but that does not seem like it will ever happen until a source comes along that is not advertising driven to taint the objectivity of the reviewers. Nothing against these writers, they may not even catch the reviews are lacking from a real long-term user/owner perspective.
Yamaguy55
No difficult problems, just difficult people
Extremely true. Plus: they're all good when you didn't have to buy them and you give them back after whatever you do to them. Under those circumstances, whatever you like the best counts far more than long term ownership, and whatever comes with that. Once you're invested, it is a different story.cbrunsw said:
Who knows: this could be my retirement job. Start a real objective moto-test mag. I'd probably go broke in 6 months, but it would be a fun endeavor. Then I could be the object of derisive comments.
What frustrates the heck out of me is that when a new bike comes out the magazines rave about it, then when the new model year comes out all they do is say what a piece of crap the last years model was and how much better the new model is. I guess the answer is wait a year until the " new and improved " bike comes out ... or ... read this forum! ::001::JHKolb said:
My review of this rig is simple- everything I throw at it, this thing eats it up. The S10 is unlike any one bike, it is like a swiss army knife of bikes. No, I have not owned a gs or 990ktm. I have owned cruisers, Vstrom, SV1000, VFR, Buell . Still own wr 450. The S10 is the most all around fun bike I have ever owned. I have put on 8000km in just over a month, this includes dirt/mud, asphalt, single track. The harder I ride it, the more it blows my mind!! on the AK highway there are sections that literally destroy riders confidence and bring bikes to a hault, the S10 begs to go faster, so I did. this led to airing out the S10 at 140km plus speeds, eating bumps, allowing for spirited dodging of holes in the roads, plowing threw construction zones of sudden road breaks. On single track with TC off this bikes slides out the rear like a dirt track racer. The low center of gravity has me powering threw dirt corners with more speed and confidence than I do on my wr. I have aired it out on single track whoops. You bet you feel the weight, but the bike handles it. I can not say the same of any other "street" bike I have ridden. The more I ride the more confidence I get on it. It will not speed away like a sport bike but, it will out cruise/ride a cruiser, handles like a dream and takes you places you would not take other bikes.
Love it, let the magazine editors earn their magazine sponsorship and shelf space keeping each manufactuer happy without taking a risk to write what they really think- I think this bike is a gamechanger.
Ride safe, my 02 cents.
Love it, let the magazine editors earn their magazine sponsorship and shelf space keeping each manufactuer happy without taking a risk to write what they really think- I think this bike is a gamechanger.
Ride safe, my 02 cents.
Yukon, you are exactly the kind of rider Yamaha designed this bike for.
Apparently BMW doesn't think so... there's a thread in Gspot on Advrideryukondood said:
where a guy who claims to be in the inside at BMW says;
Had to do some phone calls, visited some old friends, did some favours, suckt some d........nahhh just kiddin
Anyway, didn't get an exact date, but some backroundinfo.
As the Supere Tenere hit the markt, some analysts got nervous. There have been discussions to pre-issue the new GS in mid to end 2011. This would have been quite a effort, and testing would have been shortend.
After they saw that the Tenere wasn't a real threat, the timetable remained untouched.
Anyone here wasn't able to tell me a confirmed date, BUT I know (and verified!) that it is possible to advance the release of a product about 2 years. If my math is right it should come mid to end 2013. Maybe beginning 2013.
Checked my list of bikes I can order for 2012, and no sign of a new GS. So 2013 seems more and more realistic.
I think the BMW analysts got it right - the Super Tenere is not so superior to the GS that they needed to push the testing and development up a year. That would be a big risk, they'd be screwed if they got it wrong. It might have been a different story though if PRICING of the S10 in Europe was at the same level as the US. I think they would have been panicking a bit then...
2 reasons I did not by a bmw; cost, lack of dealers in my neck of the woods.
Glad I waited, 1 more for S10, 1 less for gs.
Perhaps if I took the plunge and bought a gs I would be on their forum, some reason I did not buy one and am here and a happy customer.
Tell that to the d slurping dude
Glad I waited, 1 more for S10, 1 less for gs.
Perhaps if I took the plunge and bought a gs I would be on their forum, some reason I did not buy one and am here and a happy customer.
Tell that to the d slurping dude
~TABASCO~
RIDE ON ADV is what I do !
Founding Member
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No regrets here... Im a Yamaha man myself and loyal to the brand. In my industry I get to ride MANY bikes and have the opportunity to ride / check out a lot of stuff. Im still super stoked on the new ride ! LOVE IT... I dont care if its 10Lbs lighter or 20 Lbs heavier... I took off the stock exhaust, now im lighter than both the GS and the GSA.......... 
::013:: ::015:: ::018:: Glass half full.................................. Glass half empty?
::013:: ::015:: ::018:: Glass half full.................................. Glass half empty? Rynn Storm
New Member
The R1200GS/A is a rather well known bike and given that riders are buying the Super Tenere (like me ;D), that would indicate BMW should worry. The other side of the coin is BMW is trying to save face while they make various improvements due to ST10 and really are worried, but of course they would never say something like that.dcstrom said:
Either way it doesn't matter, I like my Super.When BMW assess the threat to the GS market from the Tenere they aren't looking at the machine to machine comparison, they are looking at sales. The Tenere isn't a threat because simply put, there aren't any. The pre-order only program will keep it that way if it stays in place. When Yamaha decides to put bikes on showroom floors BMW will need to do another evaluation.
As for consumer reports, I like them but you have to be very careful with them. First of all I find that they often don't test what I think is important about a product. They usually state their testing bias. For instance, looking for a vacuum and I have all hard surface floors, they test that but clearly indicate that they think vacuums are for carpet and their ratings are weighted to carpet. Little help for me. Next, I can rarely find the same models they tested on store shelves. Finally, I think they test primarily initial design, not long term use. Take 'em for what they are worth, and leave the rest.
As for the ADV Shootout, someone wake me up if it gets interesting.
As for consumer reports, I like them but you have to be very careful with them. First of all I find that they often don't test what I think is important about a product. They usually state their testing bias. For instance, looking for a vacuum and I have all hard surface floors, they test that but clearly indicate that they think vacuums are for carpet and their ratings are weighted to carpet. Little help for me. Next, I can rarely find the same models they tested on store shelves. Finally, I think they test primarily initial design, not long term use. Take 'em for what they are worth, and leave the rest.
As for the ADV Shootout, someone wake me up if it gets interesting.