How misinformation has slowly help kill the 1200XTZ

fac191 said:

Wife or bike ?

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It sounded like he weighed his bike while he was naked?

Sierra1 said:

It sounded like he weighed his bike while he was naked?

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Always!

RCinNC said:

Are you riding those off pavement miles all alone? Riding a bike that you can't pick up in an isolated area where passing help might be a long time coming (the way some of the stretches of the various BDR's can be) seems like a bad idea, unless you've always got a riding buddy with you. It's laudable that you've only been down twice in all those miles, but shit happens even to the best of riders. I'd hate to be on some stretch of the TAT in Utah by myself on a bike that I knew I couldn't recover if something happened. It's like wearing a helmet; I've put 101,000 miles on my S10 and never crashed, but I still wear a helmet, because you try and prepare for the bad stuff you hope doesn't happen. Being able to recover your bike when you're all by yourself seems pretty important.

I think everyone who rides, whether it's street, or off pavement, or actual off road, should at least once lay the bike on its side and see if they're able to recover it. It's not quite as critical on the street, since there's usually someone around to help (though I've ridden in stretches of the southwest where I didn't see anyone else for a long time). Off pavement or off road, it's a lot more important, not just for you but for your riding partner, if he happens to be trapped under his bike and it's up to you to get it off him.

I've had to recover my S10 twice, once on the road and once off pavement. On the off pavement get-off, the fuel tank ended up on the downslope side of a hill. I'm a big guy, and I could get it upright again by myself, but it was a bitch, especially on gravel. I recommend that anyone who rides this supertanker off pavement all alone try that at least once and see what it's like. Being all alone and far from help is a bad time to find out that you can't manage it.

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Huge agree

I can get my bike back up myself on gravel/dirt but it sure is nice to have some help.


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RCinNC said:

Are you riding those off pavement miles all alone? Riding a bike that you can't pick up in an isolated area where passing help might be a long time coming (the way some of the stretches of the various BDR's can be) seems like a bad idea, unless you've always got a riding buddy with you. It's laudable that you've only been down twice in all those miles, but shit happens even to the best of riders. I'd hate to be on some stretch of the TAT in Utah by myself on a bike that I knew I couldn't recover if something happened. It's like wearing a helmet; I've put 101,000 miles on my S10 and never crashed, but I still wear a helmet, because you try and prepare for the bad stuff you hope doesn't happen. Being able to recover your bike when you're all by yourself seems pretty important.

I think everyone who rides, whether it's street, or off pavement, or actual off road, should at least once lay the bike on its side and see if they're able to recover it. It's not quite as critical on the street, since there's usually someone around to help (though I've ridden in stretches of the southwest where I didn't see anyone else for a long time). Off pavement or off road, it's a lot more important, not just for you but for your riding partner, if he happens to be trapped under his bike and it's up to you to get it off him.

I've had to recover my S10 twice, once on the road and once off pavement. On the off pavement get-off, the fuel tank ended up on the downslope side of a hill. I'm a big guy, and I could get it upright again by myself, but it was a bitch, especially on gravel. I recommend that anyone who rides this supertanker off pavement all alone try that at least once and see what it's like. Being all alone and far from help is a bad time to find out that you can't manage it.

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When I got mine 10 years ago. I rode alone and in some kinda remote places. I’ve picked it up many times but it’s a struggle 10 years later. I’ve been down twice that I couldn’t get it up. (The bike that is). Both buried in the mud. I left it in the woods once for 2 days n the cold December rain. When I got back to it. It fired right up after laying there. My big young nephew had to push me for a few hundred yards till I got out of the badass La. gumbo mud.

I would think it's silly to worry about weight in an ADV bike that you plan to load like a rented mule. Besides, there's only about 50lbs difference between the heaviest and the lightest. TFT screens and ride/drive modes. Two things that I just don't get. Fuel, oil, and temp are the only gauges I need. If I'm in the sand, I know how I have to ride. If I'm on ice, I know how to ride. I don't get letting what you're riding determine how you ride. And I think Jaxon is right. If it had all the bells and whistle of the other bikes, it would have the price tag of all the other bikes. I'm a cheapskate luddite, so it's the perfect bike for me.

I hear you there, Tenman. As 60 years old looms on the horizon, stuff I could do five years ago ain't quite so easy to pull off now. The last time I picked up a bike was a year ago when a friend dropped his 1250 GS. We were in kind of a sketchy situation, so I ran over and just got it up onto its wheels so we could get out of where we were. Don't know how much longer I'll be able to do that.

SkunkWorks said:

Always!

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Now thats what i call Adventurous

RCinNC said:

Are you riding those off pavement miles all alone? Riding a bike that you can't pick up in an isolated area where passing help might be a long time coming (the way some of the stretches of the various BDR's can be) seems like a bad idea, unless you've always got a riding buddy with you. It's laudable that you've only been down twice in all those miles, but shit happens even to the best of riders. I'd hate to be on some stretch of the TAT in Utah by myself on a bike that I knew I couldn't recover if something happened. It's like wearing a helmet; I've put 101,000 miles on my S10 and never crashed, but I still wear a helmet, because you try and prepare for the bad stuff you hope doesn't happen. Being able to recover your bike when you're all by yourself seems pretty important.

I think everyone who rides, whether it's street, or off pavement, or actual off road, should at least once lay the bike on its side and see if they're able to recover it. It's not quite as critical on the street, since there's usually someone around to help (though I've ridden in stretches of the southwest where I didn't see anyone else for a long time). Off pavement or off road, it's a lot more important, not just for you but for your riding partner, if he happens to be trapped under his bike and it's up to you to get it off him.

I've had to recover my S10 twice, once on the road and once off pavement. On the off pavement get-off, the fuel tank ended up on the downslope side of a hill. I'm a big guy, and I could get it upright again by myself, but it was a bitch, especially on gravel. I recommend that anyone who rides this supertanker off pavement all alone try that at least once and see what it's like. Being all alone and far from help is a bad time to find out that you can't manage it.

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Im not sure if this question was directed towards me ? No, I always have someone with me. If I ride alone then it either no off-road, or very little off road. Im confident enough to get it into some bad areas and I have needed peoples help before. No crash, but just need some extra strength. On the last BDR, near Jarbidge we ran our loaded bikes up this BS mountain with huge rain ruts. I made it half way before I got stuck in the rain run half way up this mountain. The bike was just stuck upright. It took us about 1.5 hours to get both bikes turned around and back down this "hill"....... And then another 20'ish miles of BS goat paths to get back to the next dirt road of 30 miles. The goat trail is where I tore my bag open and all my stuff fell out....

This last trip, IDBDR near Lowman, ID I almost had a total yard sale doing about 45-50 down a hill and found myself in another rain rut I could not get out of... I was turning into the side of the rut and the bike was falling to the left doing 45'ish... It was about to get BAD... Last second it popped out and I kept going.... I just had to clean my underwear...... It was also raining quite hard at that moment.....
Ive had a few other "situations" doing 100+ MPH off road.... Ive joked before, If I have an issue it wont be a bent part on the bike or a scratch. It's going to be, "there is a part over there............ and another part over there................... and he is over in that direction"......

IMOP, when I see You-Tube guys riding BDR's out alone how crazy scary that could be (for me) and the huge danger involved. Some people will remember the story of our first BDR.... the Arizona BDR... My riding buddy flipped his bike off the side of a mountain and it took rescue about 15 hours to find us and then a few more hours to get his bike and loaded up.... Shit can happen really fast, and many times you are out in VERY remote areas..... I really need folks with me off road, because I cant pick the bike up.... I certainly would strip the bike and try, but I know full well that there are MANY-MANY situations out on the BDR that even if the bike was stripped, I could not get it, just not strong enough....

I will probably be upgrading my satellite communications in the future for the up & coming BDR's.... The Idaho BDR had very little cell service to communicate with anyone for any reason. I have a few new mods I plan to do before the next cross country trip / BDR.

Be safe out there...............

RCinNC said:

Are you riding those off pavement miles all alone? Riding a bike that you can't pick up in an isolated area where passing help might be a long time coming (the way some of the stretches of the various BDR's can be) seems like a bad idea, unless you've always got a riding buddy with you. It's laudable that you've only been down twice in all those miles, but shit happens even to the best of riders. I'd hate to be on some stretch of the TAT in Utah by myself on a bike that I knew I couldn't recover if something happened. It's like wearing a helmet; I've put 101,000 miles on my S10 and never crashed, but I still wear a helmet, because you try and prepare for the bad stuff you hope doesn't happen. Being able to recover your bike when you're all by yourself seems pretty important.

I think everyone who rides, whether it's street, or off pavement, or actual off road, should at least once lay the bike on its side and see if they're able to recover it. It's not quite as critical on the street, since there's usually someone around to help (though I've ridden in stretches of the southwest where I didn't see anyone else for a long time). Off pavement or off road, it's a lot more important, not just for you but for your riding partner, if he happens to be trapped under his bike and it's up to you to get it off him.

I've had to recover my S10 twice, once on the road and once off pavement. On the off pavement get-off, the fuel tank ended up on the downslope side of a hill. I'm a big guy, and I could get it upright again by myself, but it was a bitch, especially on gravel. I recommend that anyone who rides this supertanker off pavement all alone try that at least once and see what it's like. Being all alone and far from help is a bad time to find out that you can't manage it.

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This is why I carry a homemade moto jack. I have picked it up several times without it, but earlier this year solo in mud I was glad I had the jack (twice). I prefer to ride with a partner, but that's not always possible...

As I get older I am ever more conscious of MY limitations (not the bike's). The fatigue factor should not be underestimated. I know how painfull falling can be, but the places we've gone are unforgettable. My Boy Scout leader experience says "Be Prepared".

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I recently got the Motorola Defy Satellite SOS and Text messenger. Relatively new and expanding coverage. $150 for the unit and basic service $5/mo after free year.

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how I do it after U dump it in the yard. Just rained. I was in my moto crocks. Foot pegs were stuck in the groundh

holligl said:

I recently got the Motorola Defy Satellite SOS and Text messenger. Relatively new and expanding coverage. $150 for the unit and basic service $5/mo after free year.

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Please report back on how it works ? I bought a Spot Trace from Cabelas and it was very unreliable so I returned it and got my money back.

I have a garmin inreach mini and its way cool. Have never used the SOS feature.


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I use the Zoleo and it has been flawless, I highly recommend it.

I use Garmin Inreach Explorer + works great but expensive
In the past I used the monthly plan to save a little money but next year I might do the one year plan because it would be less hassle and not that much more expensive.

lund said:

I use the Zoleo and it has been flawless, I highly recommend it.

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Same. I can't recall the details, but their subscription pricing (including ability and cost of deactivation / reactivation) worked out best for me vs. the other majors. And I think it is a good product.
Though I too am unfamiliar with the above-mentioned Motorola.

gunslinger_006 said:

I have a garmin inreach mini and its way cool. Have never used the SOS feature.


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It evidently does work pretty well from a technical standpoint. The couple that were attacked in Banff National Park recently managed to send out an SOS on their device, along with the text message "Bear Attack Bad". The device helped the rescue teams locate the couple. Sadly the bear attack was fatal, but the SOS feature did work.

Going back to the original topic of this post, it would seem that our own members' experiences have pretty much verified the Harley guy's assessment.

It IS a heavy bike. My estimate was 600 plus pounds, Skunkworks was able to weigh his with a gear load that's probably pretty common with a lot of us, and his ride came out to 620 pounds without him on it. I don't think there's any alternate reality where 620 pounds would NOT be a heavy bike, especially when you no longer have pavement under your wheels. Just because other bikes in the same class weigh in at that weight doesn't make the bike lighter; it just means that all the heavyweight ADV bikes are pretty porky, especially compared to what they call a middleweight ADV bike like the KTM 890 or a Norton 901. Whether it's too heavy to be a good ADV bike is a matter of opinion, not misinformation, especially since ADV is a marketing term, not an actual usage description. If you define ADV bike as a bike that's great for for both touring and riding on dirt/fire/logging roads, then the bike is top notch. If you define ADV as "singletrack scree covered goat trails with sheer dropoffs", then I bet any rider who is experienced at real off road riding would say that a 620 pound bike was a pretty poor choice for that sort of terrain (especially on a bike where you can't even disable the ABS with a simple switch).

"A Harley rider said your not suppose to tip them over". Well, again based on the personal experiences of members in this very thread, that's a big old "yes". Tipping one over for some of us is an unrecoverable situation without outside help; dumping it alone on a deserted road means calling or walking for help. Or (smartly) carrying some sort of self recovery gear when you're out alone. The bike's marketing skews the bike towards on/off pavement, so it's pretty likely that at least some guys are going to be using it off pavement, where riding conditions make a drop a lot more likely. Anyone who's dropped this bike knows it's a handful to get it upright again, especially in an off pavement environment, and for some it's an impossibility. It's not a gap in logic to say that dropping 620 pound bike isn't advisable, especially on a sketchy road surface with bad footing, and when you personally aren't physically capable of picking it up.

Recognizing the flaws in something we love doesn't mean we love the thing any less, even when the flaws are pointed out by someone we don't believe has the right to point out the flaws in the first place. The fact that a Harley guy riding a lead brick of a motorcycle pointed out what really are the objective facts doesn't make him wrong, even if you think he's a hypocrite. Killing the messenger never changes the message.

I don't see any misinformation being promulgated about the S10, if the proposed misinformation is "heavy bike that's not suitable for real ADV riding and is hard to pick up". I certainly don't think that message ever made a dent in sales; if "heavy bike that's hard to pick up" was a sales killer, BMW would be selling lawn mowers at this point and not selling 60,000 1250GS's in 2022. You can probably blame a lot of factors for the S10 never being as popular as other bikes in its class; popularity, brand loyalty and recognition, bad marketing, targeted at a non existent market based on price point, perceived value for money, etc. "Heavy adventure bike that's as heavy as all the other adventure bikes that are more popular than the one I like" isn't one of the reasons.

SkunkWorks said:

I weighed mine "Naked" once also.........(well, nearly-naked)
I had my tank-bag mounted, two-liter water bladder and a half-tank of Fuel. The tools I carry always stay with the bike, in the rear-mounted tool box. Crash-Bars and skid-plate installed.
"Ready to Ride" without me on it she tipped the scales at 620-lbs

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this is a family friendly forum. Lets watch the nudity…..

Silverbacks are nekid at the family zoo.

Sierra1 said:

Silverbacks are nekid at the family zoo.

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That depends, for some they are only naked after shaving and that gives a whole new meaning to feeling the breeze through the hair.