spokes

Re: Loose spokes ?

RED CAT said:

Always amazes me how many want to run to the Dealer for a freaking oil change.

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Sorry for the thread drift here, but I have not yet done my own oil changes on my Super Ten. When I owned my Kawi Concours C10, I did my own changes, but I found that I always ended up slopping some oil on the garage floor, and then there was the added aggravation of having to make a trip to the local Jiffy Lube to dispose of the used stuff. Also, it has been widely known and accepted for years now that used engine oil is carcinogenic, so I prefer not to handle it. Interestingly, this study indicates that used oil from Diesel engines is not carcinogenic. http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/13/3/545.abstract

Therefore, if you do your own oil changes, I highly recommend using latex gloves to prevent direct contact with the used oil.

Bruce

Re: Loose spokes ?

BravoBravo said:

Sorry for the thread drift here, but I have not yet done my own oil changes on my Super Ten. When I owned my Kawi Concours C10, I did my own changes, but I found that I always ended up slopping some oil on the garage floor, and then there was the added aggravation of having to make a trip to the local Jiffy Lube to dispose of the used stuff. Also, it has been widely known and accepted for years now that used engine oil is carcinogenic, so I prefer not to handle it. Interestingly, this study indicates that used oil from Diesel engines is not carcinogenic. http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/13/3/545.abstract

Therefore, if you do your own oil changes, I highly recommend using latex gloves to prevent direct contact with the used oil.

Bruce

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Bruce, you would not like my garage then...its very well used ::015:: I wear gloves for everything I do.
I used to be on the tools for a living, and I was amazed at how many guys worked with bare hands. Dexterity is one thing, but protection is another
The used oil is an easy fix in Calgary. Several FD around the city take all used fluids, areosol cans etc for free. I make a trip twice a year to dispose of used oil, and other stuff.

Re: Loose spokes ?

greg the pole said:

Bruce, you would not like my garage then...its very well used ::015:: I wear gloves for everything I do.
I used to be on the tools for a living, and I was amazed at how many guys worked with bare hands. Dexterity is one thing, but protection is another
The used oil is an easy fix in Calgary. Several FD around the city take all used fluids, areosol cans etc for free. I make a trip twice a year to dispose of used oil, and other stuff.

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That is a very handy service provided by your fire department, Greg. It is not difficult to get rid of used oil here either really. It is just easier to have someone else do it! Yeah, I'm kind of lazy...

Re: Loose spokes ?

BravoBravo said:

That is a very handy service provided by your fire department, Greg. It is not difficult to get rid of used oil here either really. It is just easier to have someone else do it! Yeah, I'm kind of lazy...

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Not lazy...work challenged.

Re: Loose spokes ?

greg the pole said:

Not lazy...work challenged.

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LOL. Yes, let's go with that! ::003::

Wheels and spokes

[Originally titled "Keep an eye on your rear rim"] Especially if your bike is high mileage and used hard with heavy loads (i.e. this problem may only affect a small percentage of us).

I found a crack in the rear rim a few weeks ago in Morocco - this is at about 86,000 miles. I was tempted to be cheap (moi? never!) and just get it welded, but fortunately Checkswrecks convinced me it was better to replace the rim. That was a good call, because once the rim was off it was possible to see at least 3 more cracks. If I'd welded the big one, these other points would have failed sooner or later, and probably in a less convenient location.

Moral of the story, check your rim if the mileage is getting up there...

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

Eeeek, could have been really nasty, cheers for the heads up ::008::

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

For sure, what DC said, I've seen this before.....

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

It might be worth pointing out, this would have been under warranty if I was still in the US and had bought the extended cover. (extended doesn't cover outside the US - neither does the standard warranty for that matter.)

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

Have you adjusted (torqued the spokes) the wheel?

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

Thanks for the heads up. Always good to know these things

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

tomatocity said:

Have you adjusted (torqued the spokes) the wheel?

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No - I've never had access to the proper tool, so when I've tightened them I've just "pinged" them till they are in the ballpark. Maybe 5 or 6 spokes needed tweaking in the early days, I bent one after I lost the nipple, and another broke in Brasil. Not many loose ones since initial break-in. But yeah, ideally I would have liked to have gone over them with a torque wrench (although that's not guaranteed to keep the wheel true), but I didn't have one, was not about to carry one on my travels anyway, and most shops that I encountered don't have one either - so pinging it is. Now that a I have a freshly laced rim, I'm assuming I'll be bedding things in again, so will be checking spokes every day.

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

What is the proper tool to check the tightness of the spokes? Where do you suggest one can purchase this tool?

Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

Before people start to think there is a fleet issue with cracking rim flanges, remember that metal fatigues and these were fatigue cracks. In DCStrom's 86,000 miles, he is far away our fleet leader in pounding unimproved dirt and rocky roads, so I'm not surprised to see fatigue cracks develop. He's our canary in the coal mine, so to speak.
At the same time, he is also our example that an occasional inspection will find such cracks easily and his continued riding to get back from Morocco to France showed that these are not the kind of thing that with no warning will strand an owner.
We and Yamaha owe Trevor thanks for the lessons.
::008::
He and I've also discussed changing to Woody's heavy duty spokes, then abandoned the idea. While possible, those spokes were developed for use with Woody's heavier duty wheels and will have less flex than the stock spokes. This means that the combination of heavy duty spokes with stock rim will put MORE load into the rim flanges that the spokes attach to, which is where his rims showed the weakest link in the design-chain to be.

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

mrpete64 said:

What is the proper tool to check the tightness of the spokes? Where do you suggest one can purchase this tool?

Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie

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Properly, it's a 5mm Allan bit in a torque wrench. A simple 5mm wrench is all you need to occasionally make sure the spokes have tightness.

There is a BIG potential for doing the wrong thing with that 5mm bit. The spokes need to have tension, but they also keep the wheel circular, concentric on the hub, centered left/right, and with proper run-out (not shaped like a potato chip). You don't have to change spoke tensions much to screw up ANY of those four crucial dimensions.

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

I agree with what some of the others have been saying in these spoke threads: wheel trueness always trumps spoke tension and it is completely normal to have +/- 20% spoke tension variances in order to have a true wheel. Also, spoke nipple torque is a poor surrogate for spoke tension as torque wrenches aren't that precise and the condition of the nipple and threads adds further noise. You can do a better job of balancing spokes tensions by pinging them with a screwdriver than you can with a torque wrench. Spoke torque is useful during an initial wheel build and assists in getting ballpark tension when changing out a spoke, but if you tweak all the spokes to the same torque, you'll likely have a non-true wheel afterwards.

- Mark

Re: Keep an eye on your rear rim...

Checkwrecks and Markjenn...

... exactly what I was waiting for. In the beginning (2011) my fear was "if a little bit is good then a little more should be better". I am sure this forum had more of these than what was reported. I have not touched my spokes other than pinging them. Are they even in tone, no, but none of them have the flat tone. If I was riding rough off road, surely I would have had to touch up the tension. When I get my Tenere back I will check the spokes before the Texas Ride.

Re: Wheels and spokes

In case a spoke comes loose, an old dirt-bike trick for prevention of damage to the swing-arm and other parts is to loosely tie the spokes at each cross. As MarkJenn wrote, don't cinch it up so tight that the spokes can't flex. For those needing photos - here is safety wire on the rear wheel of a Tenere:

(Yes the rotor is shot. I have a new one and haven't had a chance to swap it out.)


And below are Ty-Wraps (aka panduits) on the rear wheel of a WR250R to capture a broken/loose spoke (Yes spokes are bent):

Re: Wheels and spokes

Since this is now sticky,

does anyone know the torque spec for the spokes?

Re: Wheels and spokes

If someone finds out the torque settings, I will add them to my pocket tech specs guide.