Gyroscopic Manifestations of ?

[roadlizard]

Curious consequences of WOT operation of the ST on gravel roads. With traction control in T-2 WOT acceleration results in this gyroscopic weaving or better said fish tailing of the motorcycle. This phemonem acerbates as speed increases during WOT operation. Only decreasing throttle stops the process. Had similar experience on the KLR at steady speeds of 60 + MPH on gravel but thought it was a KLR thing. The ST dosen't seem to mind 60 + gravel road speeds, but dosen't seem to like WOT acceleration on gravel for any period of time.

Didn't have the nads to try WOT on gravel with traction control neutralized. Had a bad experience on an FJR using WOT on gravel.

Any experienced non=tarmac riders care to comment?

 

[MIKE R]

Whats WOT?

Mike

 

[tomatocity]

Wide Open Throttle ?

 

[Leopard_125]

Maybe a little insight in to the set up of your bike.
tires,pressure,suspension adjustments.

 

[roadlizard]

Bike is equipped with stock tires with PCV, Akra exhaust, Arrow headers, auto tune and good maps. Happy trails panniers mildly loaded, Other than that stock as far as performance altering farkles. The rest is just bling.

 

[dcstrom]

Curious consequences of WOT operation of the ST on gravel roads. With traction control in T-2 WOT acceleration results in this gyroscopic weaving or better said fish tailing of the motorcycle. This phemonem acerbates as speed increases during WOT operation. Only decreasing throttle stops the process. Had similar experience on the KLR at steady speeds of 60 + MPH on gravel but thought it was a KLR thing. The ST dosen't seem to mind 60 + gravel road speeds, but dosen't seem to like WOT acceleration on gravel for any period of time.

Didn't have the nads to try WOT on gravel with traction control neutralized. Had a bad experience on an FJR using WOT on gravel.

Any experienced non=tarmac riders care to comment?

Even a short period of WOT and you're going to be doing 100mph - I'm not sure that's what you want? WOT in TCS2 will give you some wheelspin, and in a straight line this will result in the rear going sideways for a little bit, then coming back into line as the TCS cuts in, then repeating the process. Maybe this is what you are feeling as a weave?

PS - it's not the same as a KLR... spinning up the rear at 60mph is not a common occurrence!

Trevor

 

[Firefight911]

As a matter of fact.....

When I was down in Death Valley a few weeks ago and in one of Jimmy Lewis' training courses one of our exercises was to actually accelerate from idle in first gear all the way up to red line. Once we had done this we repeated up through second gear.

First pass had some weave. Thereafter I had none.

Result of this was the same reason it happened when I ran the Bonneville Salt Flats on my old R1200ST at 130 mph with 6th gear wheel spin.

Too firm a grip on the bars.

Yes, suspension that is too soft and or under damped can and will exacerbate this effect but it stems from the rider to bike interface.


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[Dirt_Dad]

Does not take WOT to get the tire to spin on a gravel road. If using TCS2 once you get the tire spinning adding in more throttle is unlikely to do much of anything, so WOT should be the same as enough throttle to get things spinning.

That fish tailing experience is just what you should expect when the rear tire has lost traction. It's completely normal and expected...and fun. As long as you continue to move straight forward at speed it's not going to step out too far on you and it will just sway around back there keeping the rear end alive. If you introduce a change of direction either by turning or having some thick gravel or terrain force the front end to change then the spinning might become more exciting. Still very controllable in TCS2...unless you let the front end start to slide. Front ends are bad to slide around.

I haven't felt the need to turn off TCS2 when gravel road riding. I realize I could get a better power slide out of it if I did, but there's something about power sliding a 600+ lb bike that makes me a little cautious.

 

[roadlizard]

Took a dirt bike class on the KLR. Sit close and high on the tank using wide elbows on the bike with light grip. Allow the front end to freely find the route using the gyroscopic stability of the spinning wheels to stabilize the bike. This technique did not stop the fish tailing. Could not have had a lighter touch on the bikes steering without letting go of the bars. Do not think this is a rider induced issue. Perhaps, as the post discussed, the traction control on / off control is the root cause? Not interested enough to do a case map of this problem.

 

[RED CAT]

TC2 on Gravel roads is probably best all round. You can pin it and not worry about too much excitement. I like to do it in easy corners just to get the feel. It won't get too crazy before TC cuts in. 60 mph on gravel is pretty tame. Gets much more interesting around 100mph, long as you're going in a straight line on relative smooth gravel even if its deepish. The S10 is pretty stable on gravel. Try cranking up the spring preload a little on the rear shock. That should stop the weaving. A little weaving is Ok. The foreward momentum will keep you on the straight and narrow. Trying to quickly slow down on loose stuff can sometimes get you into more trouble than pinning it or maintaining speed. Practice on the same stretch of road over and over trying to go faster and faster but not to the point where you get paranoid. After awhile it just comes naturally and you can relax and enjoy the ride! ::001::

 

[~TABASCO~]

In my experience I ride in (S) mode with traction turned off, when riding off road... I have ridden 60-70 + Mph off road many times.. I have found that I can wick the throttle at those speeds in the dirt and get the bike moving and set of for a turn I might want to make..I don't think I have ever had it WOT in the dirt. I really enjoy standing at these speeds and having the bike move all around... I love that... I think that this bike wants to slide from side to side more than other "dirt bikes" but thats probably because this is 100+ HP... LOL I was having fun "practicing" standing and doing some acceleration 'power slide' though some dirt road corners.. Thats pretty exciting... All for fun, this bike is a beast off road and just begs for the throttle to be cracked open !!! Damn, I love this bike on road..... and really love it off road !!

I really don't like any TC turned on while off road.. There have been a few times where I turned the bike off , then restarted and forgot to turn the TC back off... When trying to get out of the situation or expecting the bike to act a certain way and then it DOESNT scared the poo out of me because the TC cut the power.. Just about made me taste a dirt sample.. I think for me my style depends on and counts on full power if I need or want it.. About the only time I ride with TC 1 or TC 2 is in the rain 'on road'...... ::26::