Had the chance to demo a new watercooled GS this weekend. Rode it about 25 miles mainly on the BRP. Not thinking of buying one or making a direct comparasion to the Tenere do to cost difference. It does have more power and is smoother than the Yamaha. Cruise control, electronic suspension, 5 engine maps etc. I think best way to sum it up is that the GS seems more refined than the Tenere. I was a lot more impressed with it on first ride than I was on first ride on Tenere.
Demoed a GS this weekend
- Thread starter Z06
- Start date
You lost me at GS.
Yawn.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!
Yawn.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!
tomatocity
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I like your review and I think it is very fair. If I had excess cash I wouldn't have a problem owning a BMW.
Phil, you just have too much of a bad history (understandable) with BMW to be fair.
Phil, you just have too much of a bad history (understandable) with BMW to be fair.
Interesting how these threads always bring out the haters who profess no interest in a GS or anything else BMW yet feel compelled to post something negative.
Fwiw, I hope the new GS pushes Yamaha to up the ante. Competition is always a good thing. ::024::
Fwiw, I hope the new GS pushes Yamaha to up the ante. Competition is always a good thing. ::024::
hANNAbONE
...Patiently Waited...
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Firefight911 said:
funniee..!!! pHILLIPPE'
As I stated in original post, not thinking about buying one and did not demo reliability or dealer service. Have no problem admiting that a 525 pound wet 125 HP ADV bike with all the bells and whistles the GS had was impressive. Love my Tenere, but the GS is on another level as it should be.
Almost no dive under hard enough braking to kick in ABS. Adjustable on the fly shield worked very well. Self canceling turn signals. TPMS with pressure readings and more.
Almost no dive under hard enough braking to kick in ABS. Adjustable on the fly shield worked very well. Self canceling turn signals. TPMS with pressure readings and more.
From what I've heard the new GSs are selling like hotcakes... What needs to be dealer serviced every 3000 miles? The new GS's valve check intervals are every 12000 miles and even those are pretty easy to DIY.RonH said:
The dealer in Aomori has both the water-cooled GS and GSA on the showroom floor. They are sharp bikes. Best looking GS to date, IMO.
I don't see why anyone is surprised that the GS is more powerful, has better ergos, has more bells and whistles, etc. This has always been the case, and that's what trips many peoples trigger.
The added complexity of ESA, etc also makes them a bit less relable. That's not hate, just the unavoidable truth, but If people like enough things about the bike and have the money, they don't mind spending it.
I'll bet its a blast on a test ride and makes a heckuva first impression, wheras Tenere doesn't blow you away on the first ride, but slowly wins you over.
Same principle when I used to ride sport bikes. The Aprilias and Ducatis had me drooling and giddy after a test ride, but I don't want to spend the downtime nor throw money at maintaining them.
To each his own. The new GS I'm sure is a great bike in its own right.
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I don't see why anyone is surprised that the GS is more powerful, has better ergos, has more bells and whistles, etc. This has always been the case, and that's what trips many peoples trigger.
The added complexity of ESA, etc also makes them a bit less relable. That's not hate, just the unavoidable truth, but If people like enough things about the bike and have the money, they don't mind spending it.
I'll bet its a blast on a test ride and makes a heckuva first impression, wheras Tenere doesn't blow you away on the first ride, but slowly wins you over.
Same principle when I used to ride sport bikes. The Aprilias and Ducatis had me drooling and giddy after a test ride, but I don't want to spend the downtime nor throw money at maintaining them.
To each his own. The new GS I'm sure is a great bike in its own right.
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Previous to the release they were not selling nearly as well. The F800GS sold like hotcakes when it was first released, The New Wee strom the same, The Tiger the same. It's the "New Savior" syndrome. They will settle down in a while. GS and Harley will always sell well, because they are the brands that are most known due to the rental/lifestyle show/always on TV somewhere brands.twinrider said:
They will sell well whether they are "the best" or not. They are a good bike on a test ride, they present well and many non bike riders will be impressed by the badge.
If they happen to be good fit for the buyer who knows what they are on about then they will sell even more.
But really, the popularity game should not be a big deciding factor if you know what you want. That's just for people who are insecure isn't it?
60av8tor
New Member
Really don't get this post at all. Own demise...? Not sure about that. 'Had to go in.' Disagree with that as well. I'm not a super kool-aid drinker, but at the same time, won't needlessly bash any brand - especially with misinformation. I have owned one BMW - my '08 RT that I bought new after much trepidation after reading about all the expenses, the FD that will explode at 5k, etc. By far, my favorite bike I've owned. Only have the Tenere because I totalled my '08 and found it while looking for a used replacement; decided to go with the Tenere (have had a previous love affair with numerous DS bikes, however, none this big and 'road worthy') while I wait to see how the WC RT does.RonH said:
I took my RT to a dealer exactly 3 times (by my choosing) in 5 years/26k - the first service at 600 miles just to get it checked, on record, and a clean bill of health, once under warranty to replace the fuel strip, and for the 24k service (shortly before totalling) because I was busy and honestly did not feel like doing the work myself.
Do BMWs have issues that you wouldn't expect for a >20k motorcycle - you bet - know this going in. When I bought mine, they were replacing all the key immobilizer rings cause they were going TU and leaving guys stranded. Another was the cursed fuel strip - some guys going through 5 or 6. I went through 2 - one under warranty, one not - $300 to have replaced. Other than the fuel strip, I filled her up and went - and loved every mile on that steed.
Had an '03 Goldwing that I purchased new. I also loved this bike - took it to Alaska from Georgia; just too big and heavy for the little 2 up I was doing - replaced it with the RT. Lets talk about their overheating issues back then - driving a brand new Wing from the dealer in ATL, getting into some slow-moving traffic, watching the needle peg, and wondering if I should pull over and let my brand new bike cool off. Oh yeah, and a few months later the dealer laying her on her side to reweld the frame that was cracking. Took care of those issues, rode the pi$$ out if it, and loved every mile...
I take nothing away from Phil. I have read enough of his posts on another board to feel like boycotting the brand just to support the guy - I'd feel the exact same way in his shoes. But when I see misinformation as the above - that BMWs 'have to be taken to the dealer', etc, it trips my trigger.
***Full disclosure - the 'have to be taken to the dealer' mantra sometimes stems from the service message. It is true that there is no way to reset it without purchasing a GS-911 diagnostic module. I enjoyed owning the module just because I did my own maintenance and I felt like it was a valuable addition to my RT service items. But to have the reminder latch and not reset is pure BMW...annoying...
Even more annoying is that BMW changed the plug on the new GS so that if you purchased a $300 GS-911 to reset the service reminder, it is now obsolete on the new LC bike. That being said, the service reminder on recent BMWs is tiny text in the display that says "Service" rather than a ugly warning light, so ignoring it is a completely viable option. That's what I'm doing on my S1000RR.60av8tor said:
As to the general jist of service requirements, some things are much harder on the GS than the S10, but others are vice-versa. Costs are generally higher on BMWs - I'd estimate about the same 30% premium you pay for the original bike. Significant, but not the 2x or 3x difference many say.
- Mark
I always think its great when people test ride other bikes. Period. Really what it comes down to is not e-reviewing stuff here in the forums, but finding what works for you and embracing it. The reality is that if we could all afford a GS, it was reliable and easy to maintain, we'd probably all own one - not because its a GS, but because of those other traits.
I want comfort, handling, reliability and something that looks good to me. Yeah, there's a price ceiling in place for me, so with everything in mind, the Tenere is the "perfect" fit right now.
I could easily afford a new GS, but simply don't want so much money into a motorcycle, just my choice. A co-worker nailed it today for me: You know, for an extra $4k on top of the GS's price, I could have a Miata."
Whether you like or dislike a Miata is irrelevant - the point is, the BMW is one pricey bit of kit.
Now, if all that whiz-bang gee-giggery gets other manufacturers to up their own games, even better. BUT, I point to the FJR here...for years, all Yamaha did was change the paint, while others steppe dup power, refinements, wind management, comfort, handling, etc. Everything with motorcycles is a slow evolution, so lets all just enjoy the STens we have, test ride other rides from time to time, and save some pennies for when Yamaha finally moves to a new Tenere.
I want comfort, handling, reliability and something that looks good to me. Yeah, there's a price ceiling in place for me, so with everything in mind, the Tenere is the "perfect" fit right now.
I could easily afford a new GS, but simply don't want so much money into a motorcycle, just my choice. A co-worker nailed it today for me: You know, for an extra $4k on top of the GS's price, I could have a Miata."
Whether you like or dislike a Miata is irrelevant - the point is, the BMW is one pricey bit of kit.
Now, if all that whiz-bang gee-giggery gets other manufacturers to up their own games, even better. BUT, I point to the FJR here...for years, all Yamaha did was change the paint, while others steppe dup power, refinements, wind management, comfort, handling, etc. Everything with motorcycles is a slow evolution, so lets all just enjoy the STens we have, test ride other rides from time to time, and save some pennies for when Yamaha finally moves to a new Tenere.
Thought I'd just pipe in with an OZ update.
My S10 is officially depreciating almost as fast as a 2012 BMW GS.
Honda XTourer headed out of the gate at 20K is now $17,500, and they have sold out.
KTM have decided that the 1190 Adv and 1190R Adv are only going to cost $21.5 and $22.5K which is almost sensible.
Triumph have dropped the base price of the TEX $2K, They may have then added 50% to the options list though I don't know. They have also dropped the price of the un optioned Tiger 800 to almost Strom prices. Like they are now charging a reasonable price OMG WTF. etc
And the S10 is getting out the door for about 18,500 these days. (16,500 before taxes).
BMW R1200GS WC $26,500. (I know we say $21,500 in the adds but we don't order those. $26,500 please)
It's a good time not to be wanting a 2013 GS. ::025::
My S10 is officially depreciating almost as fast as a 2012 BMW GS.
Honda XTourer headed out of the gate at 20K is now $17,500, and they have sold out.
KTM have decided that the 1190 Adv and 1190R Adv are only going to cost $21.5 and $22.5K which is almost sensible.
Triumph have dropped the base price of the TEX $2K, They may have then added 50% to the options list though I don't know. They have also dropped the price of the un optioned Tiger 800 to almost Strom prices. Like they are now charging a reasonable price OMG WTF. etc
And the S10 is getting out the door for about 18,500 these days. (16,500 before taxes).
BMW R1200GS WC $26,500. (I know we say $21,500 in the adds but we don't order those. $26,500 please)
It's a good time not to be wanting a 2013 GS. ::025::
The last of the air cooled GS models was in many ways a bit nicer than the S10, I just could not bring myself to upgrade my 2008 model after the amount of issues it had in such a short space of time, and I had not even had one of the fairly common "big ticket" items fail (FD / ABS / Clutch / Gearbox).
I also did not like the £100 per hour dealer rates, without which the service costs would not be that much more than the S10, but it always needed extra work at service time, or between services, something my Jap bikes have never really been prone to.
Lastly BMW never (or at least in recent history) develop a bike properly, the latest GS had more recalls in 3 months than the S10 in 3 years and has on-going issues, some say BMW are good at resolving such issues, but they never updated the old 1200's FPC to a reliable one in a nine year production run, and the final drive went through several revisions and the last model still had the odd early failure.
Just done a 3500 mile trip with the S10, I carried virtually no tools and no oil was needed, with the GS I carried a lot of tools and a spare Fuel Pump Controller, and still felt worried mechanical failure would ruin my holiday, on each trip something went funny with the bike, never stopping but I had clutch issues and leaks early on which left me on edge for the rest of the trip.
I am sure the new GS is a really nice bike to ride, but unless money was no object I would not go near another, and even then I am not sure I would on principle, if BMW want me to beta test their bikes they should give me one for free :exclaim:
I also did not like the £100 per hour dealer rates, without which the service costs would not be that much more than the S10, but it always needed extra work at service time, or between services, something my Jap bikes have never really been prone to.
Lastly BMW never (or at least in recent history) develop a bike properly, the latest GS had more recalls in 3 months than the S10 in 3 years and has on-going issues, some say BMW are good at resolving such issues, but they never updated the old 1200's FPC to a reliable one in a nine year production run, and the final drive went through several revisions and the last model still had the odd early failure.
Just done a 3500 mile trip with the S10, I carried virtually no tools and no oil was needed, with the GS I carried a lot of tools and a spare Fuel Pump Controller, and still felt worried mechanical failure would ruin my holiday, on each trip something went funny with the bike, never stopping but I had clutch issues and leaks early on which left me on edge for the rest of the trip.
I am sure the new GS is a really nice bike to ride, but unless money was no object I would not go near another, and even then I am not sure I would on principle, if BMW want me to beta test their bikes they should give me one for free :exclaim:
$26500! That is nuts! The KTM is a nice bike but even at that price it is eye watering. Are those prices on road?GrahamD said:Thought I'd just pipe in with an OZ update.
My S10 is officially depreciating almost as fast as a 2012 BMW GS.
Honda XTourer headed out of the gate at 20K is now $17,500, and they have sold out.
KTM have decided that the 1190 Adv and 1190R Adv are only going to cost $21.5 and $22.5K which is almost sensible.
Triumph have dropped the base price of the TEX $2K, They may have then added 50% to the options list though I don't know. They have also dropped the price of the un optioned Tiger 800 to almost Strom prices. Like they are now charging a reasonable price OMG WTF. etc
And the S10 is getting out the door for about 18,500 these days. (16,500 before taxes).
BMW R1200GS WC $26,500. (I know we say $21,500 in the adds but we don't order those. $26,500 please)
It's a good time not to be wanting a 2013 GS. ::025::
I think that has to be the quoted price these days. They don't order the standard BMW. It's only available optioned up. The last test I saw was and optioned up option up GS which came in at $29,500 against the "option up" Tenere at 20600. SO yes you to can have a BMW for $9K more than an S10. Those BMW's are such great value it's no wonder they win every test.TenRider said:
It seems image is everything these days. Still in my last 2 trips out west I didn't see any BMW GS's. Seems they are city bikes. Can't go too far from a Premium pump I suppose these days. Gets a bit scary if you get stuck using regular out there.
Oh Crap. Call Roadside Assistance...
I have however seen almost one of every other bike including the S10 usually looking a bit dusty.