Arrow Header Idle Issue

[jozmoto]

I installed a set of Arrow headers w/stock muffler a couple of weeks ago. There were no instructions so I went ahead and applied RTV to all the connections. With everything installed and seemingly sealed I have an oscillating idle up/down about 50-75 rpm. I've synchronized the throttles and messed with the CO values and cannot correct it. Been messing with this since install.

Has anyone seen this? Maybe a leak in the system though very small if any?

 

[dcstrom]

that sounds exactly like mine - which is bog stock. Did you have a rock-steady idle before fitting the pipes?

 

[Bigbore4]

You significantly reduced restriction and thus likely leaned it out even farther than US emissions spec. Did you do the power commander? The CO adjust is a trimming feature, to make small adjustments to account for manufacturing tolerance. I doubt it will compensate for a major change.

Everything posted on this site says the CO adjust will correct a stock bike that is surging and stalling. I doubt it will compensate for a header change.

 

[jozmoto]

that sounds exactly like mine - which is bog stock. Did you have a rock-steady idle before fitting the pipes?

Yes it was steady with only an occasional slight surging. Not much though.

 

[jozmoto]

You significantly reduced restriction and thus likely leaned it out even farther than US emissions spec. Did you do the power commander? The CO adjust is a trimming feature, to make small adjustments to account for manufacturing tolerance. I doubt it will compensate for a major change.

Everything posted on this site says the CO adjust will correct a stock bike that is surging and stalling. I doubt it will compensate for a header change.

I don't think the restriction is reduced that much since the stock can is installed. Noise level and performance is similar to stock. No cat or crossover pipe with the Arrow though.

 

[Bigbore4]

The Cat is the restriction.

Mine is stock and has the surge at idle, the flat spot and stalls on occasion. It's lean. If the OP's bike was close to the lean tolerance, and he leaned it even a little by replacing the header, it would drop the bike into the problem zone.

I plan to do the throttle body adjust and sync, then the CO adjust and get it running proper. THEN pipe it and install the PCV. I feel the better it runs before, the better off I will be after I do the pipe and PCV.

I don't suppose anyone did any back pressure checks as they were working their mods? Tabasco? You weld in a pressure bung when you welded in the auto tune bung? Just messin with ya, the work you guys have done has helped me set my path. Correct the lean, then do the mods and the PCV should do the rest with the appropriate map.

 

[Don in Lodi]

The Cat is the restriction.

Mine is stock and has the surge at idle, the flat spot and stalls on occasion. It's lean. If the OP's bike was close to the lean tolerance, and he leaned it even a little by replacing the header, it would drop the bike into the problem zone.

I plan to do the throttle body adjust and sync, then the CO adjust and get it running proper. THEN pipe it and install the PCV. I feel the better it runs before, the better off I will be after I do the pipe and PCV.

I don't suppose anyone did any back pressure checks as they were working their mods? Tabasco? You weld in a pressure bung when you welded in the auto tune bung? Just messin with ya, the work you guys have done has helped me set my path. Correct the lean, then do the mods and the PCV should do the rest with the appropriate map.

I thought it sounded a little like putting the cart before the horse. Headers before doing anything else?

 

[~TABASCO~]

With my can and headers there is no back pressure.. Along with the idle and vibration I feel this is still a fuel air issue. Mine was bad when the bike was stock. Now that I have added the parts there is NO vibration at 2-3-4-5-K and the RPM's sit dead on 1100 like an in line 4... Its unfortunate that Yamaha because of so many reasons could not sell what im riding right now.
The headers on the stock bike IMOP would cause some undesirable effects with this bike. If you want to keep the bike pretty stock with the headers I would suggest the PCV&AT.. then it does all the work all the time and is great. If you don't, then maybe suggest playing with the CO and the AS a bit more. If someone wants a more free flowing exhaust that is still quiet that would be the Akrapovic can. Someone also called me the other day and said '(someone) could take there stock can apart and mess with it, but I have not seen or done this myself, so I don't know.....

 

[jozmoto]

I thought it sounded a little like putting the cart before the horse. Headers before doing anything else?

Actually had the full system but didn't care for the amount of noise produced. Sold the Arrow muffler and kept the headers on. I like the finish on the headers since the stockers are getting corroded from off-road junk and what not being thrown up on them. The sound with the Arrow headers and stock muffler is also not bad. A bit deeper but still quiet. Be nice if I could make this work w/o PCV and map development costs. In hind sight, should have bought an Akra slip-on but was swayed by the high cost.

 

[Kevhunts]

I installed a set of Arrow headers w/stock muffler a couple of weeks ago. There were no instructions so I went ahead and applied RTV to all the connections. With everything installed and seemingly sealed I have an oscillating idle up/down about 50-75 rpm. I've synchronized the throttles and messed with the CO values and cannot correct it. Been messing with this since install.

Has anyone seen this? Maybe a leak in the system though very small if any?

What kind of RTV did you use? The wrong formula of RTV can foul O2 sensors.

 

[NoMorBills]

RTV ?? and O2 sensors don't mix. The silocon messes with the sensor. Remove all the RTV, remove the o2 sensor and burn it with a propane torch to clean it and you might save it or it will have to be replaced.

 

[stevepsd]

If you actually used RTV, make sure it says '02 Sensor safe' on the tube. If it does not, try the propane trick to clean off the sensor. It might work or might not. Not having correctly working 02 sensors could cause the issue you are seeing. I sure hope you didn't kill the sensors, as they are not cheap.

 

[jozmoto]

If you actually used RTV, make sure it says '02 Sensor safe' on the tube. If it does not, try the propane trick to clean off the sensor. It might work or might not. Not having correctly working 02 sensors could cause the issue you are seeing. I sure hope you didn't kill the sensors, as they are not cheap.

I actually didn't RTV the O2 sensors. They have a crush washer already. I have since installed the stock headers a few days ago and the idle is back to steady and it runs fine so the O2's are not contaminated. With the Arrow headers, it acts like a slightly lean condition as if there was an intake vacuum leak. I might try reinstalling the Arrows and jacking up the CO values to 18 and re-sync just for fun.

 

[Kevhunts]

Jozmoto,

You wouldn't have to apply the RTV directly to the O2 sensors to damage them.
If the vapors alone are introduced into the exhaust stream, even breathed in the air cleaner, and then into the ehaust stream, that would be enough. Many have found out the hard way.
If the product you used was sensor safe, you'll be fine. If not, keep watch.

 

[jozmoto]

Jozmoto,

You wouldn't have to apply the RTV directly to the O2 sensors to damage them.
If the vapors alone are introduced into the exhaust stream, even breathed in the air cleaner, and then into the exhaust stream, that would be enough. Many have found out the hard way.
If the product you used was sensor safe, you'll be fine. If not, keep watch.

Thanks Kevhunts.
Since I have reverted back to stock, all seems to work perfectly as before the Arrow headers. Thus my conclusion is the O2's are Ok. I have already cleaned off any/all RTV from the Arrows in preparation to reinstall. Maybe I shouldn't apply any RTV when re-assembling. There are loose collars where the header joins the exhaust manifold and another joint at the link pipe. Springs are what holds the whole thing together. I didn't get any instructions in the Arrow packaging and assumed I should RTV the joints as these pipes came in 3 pieces and not sealed up as well as stock. Maybe that was a bad call. I'll have to see if my RTV was O2 safe if I use it again.

 

[Blue_eyes]

No sealing / gasket is required, only new gaskets where the header collars are inserted into the cilinder heads.