Another Mars landing

[GrahamD]

I can't think of anything "precious" enough at the moment that would warrant the cost of getting there, mining the stuff, then bringing it back. Cost would be truly astronomical.

Now maybe if it was the "unobtainium" from Avatar that would be a different proposition...

I costs $10,000 per Kilo to get things into orbit. From Mars I would say a lot more. So that is the marginal cost. So I hope Mars has a lot of top quality cocaine sitting up there.

 

[markjenn]

I don't think the intent has ever been to mine Mars to bring materials back to earth, at least not without advances in propulsion technology that are unlikely for hundreds of years. In the near term, the idea is that Martian materials could be used by colonists or used to continue exploration beyond Mars.

Many of the current Mars manned missions scenarios being proposed are "one way" missions in which the astronauts are colonists and never return to Earth which would require finding all the raw materials for sustaining a human settlement on Mars. Other scenarios involve using Martian materials to make fuel for the return home. It all sounds pretty far-fetched to me but there is nothing wrong with thinking about it.

- Mark

 

[GrahamD]

I don't think the intent has ever been to mine Mars to bring materials back to earth, at least not without advances in propulsion technology that are unlikely for hundreds of years. In the near term, the idea is that Martian materials could be used by colonists or used to continue exploration beyond Mars.

Many of the current Mars manned missions scenarios being proposed are "one way" missions in which the astronauts are colonists and never return to Earth which would require finding all the raw materials for sustaining a human settlement on Mars. Other scenarios involve using Martian materials to make fuel for the return home. It all sounds pretty far-fetched to me but there is nothing wrong with thinking about it.

- Mark

This is true. Most of the sensible suggestions that is. Still bloody expensive. It might be cheaper to look after what we have. ::024::

 

[Swagger]

I've been aware of this mission for a year or so as we saw Curiosity being constructed at JPL. The techies have some serious kit on that machine and at a couple of billion plus you can bet that they very interested in recovering their costs and getting further funding. I love all of this stuff the technology spin-off is what presents me with the opportunity to test new toys. ::008::

 

[Checkswrecks]

Some context to Grahams' thought about the cost to "blow things up" is to look at the per capita debt since 2001. Debt was coming down nicely till that. And what were WE (not just one president) thinking in 1980? That's when the cat got let out of the bag, because there was no statutory end to the borrowing, which is in effect what Houndman and most people, me included, think we need.

That's all another argument though. As for NASA and Curiosity and right now- WOW, what a home run! Do you folks REALLY want to have landed on the moon and then QUIT? I do think NASA put too many eggs in this one basket, but the gamble is paying off.


And overall maybe you missed that this is a real competition:
China: http://www.space.com/14309-china-space-future-missions-moon.html
India: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9447049/India-set-to-launch-Mars-mission-in-2013.html


Like to use that GPS? Guess where it came from?
btw - Soon all of your air travel will be GPS-based for navigation.
Guess what it takes to take out the satellites it is based on?
What inspires kids in school? More welfare & austerity?


So yes, I'm a fan. Now that NASA is out of the space trucking biz and those costs are coming down (http://www.spacex.com), NASA is back to what they were established to do. Research in the upward direction.

 

[houndman]

I think we need to start that debt line on a downward angle. Create the "space agency" of cutting edge real world results in how to seriously get that federal debt line going down to a ratio of normalcy and not that is spiking upward approaching critical mass. Nasa is one of those things that I support, I just wonder how we will compete with the likes of China and India when we are headed the way of Greece?

 

[Swagger]

.... I just wonder how we will compete with the likes of China and India when we are headed the way of Greece?....

Don't you worry about that my son .... they'll get theirs anytime soon.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em 8)

They will feel it a lot more given their populations ....

 

[GrahamD]

Some context to Grahams' thought about the cost to "blow things up" is to look at the per capita debt since 2001. Debt was coming down nicely till that. And what were WE (not just one president) thinking in 1980? That's when the cat got let out of the bag, because there was no statutory end to the borrowing, which is in effect what Houndman and most people, me included, think we need.

Pffft! Government debt is nothing. The real drunken sailors are wall street and the drunken lending spree they love to allow everyone access to.

Many economies around the world have been pump priming their economies by "speculative lending" which is all well and good until the amount owed starts dragging on the economy. On the flip side some countries notably China, Japan and I think Germany have NET surpluses and money to lend (or buy and stockpile resources)

So this is why I like the NASA, NREL, DARPA thing. They often do good basic research which MAY then be used to advance industry (robotics, energy efficiency, Internet).

Now, if that private debt was sunk into efficiency improvements (rail, shipping, energy production, manufacturing etc) it would have had a way better outcome than blowing speculative bubbles in stocks, housing and "Shorting Greece".

I might sound old fashion, but I think the Government and Wall Street would have been better off investing in those things than blowing bubbles and blowing shit up.

Trouble with that is that at some point someone has to say, This is shit we need to make some hard decisions, which usually means that they get kicked out at the next election because people who don't pay attention think that it has nothing to do with then and it all the Governments fault. The last thing people want to do it seems is accept that they may need to work a bit harder at getting smarter when someone is promising them a quick fix after they get in.

In Australia people are paying about double for a house and land than they should. (Speculation). No one even seems to get the fact that the same house they are paying double for does nothing to help the economy, unless you borrow against that increased value. Eventually people are maxed out on debt, Then they have a lot less money to spend on other things and the people that buy have bugger all to spend. The banks love it, the economy is being sucked dry by debt repayments and importing oil (we peaked 12 years ago and that bill is getting bigger). Right now we are selling a lot of finite resources to other countries so we cope. Our manufacturing industry is going down (sound familiar?) but we make good shovels and ports. This has been bought about by Government policy and the belief that you can make money by borrowing more on speculation. Anyone who said otherwise over the years was ignored or voted out.

We have become fat and lazy, just like all middle aged economies. Nice while it lasts, but eventually a triple bypass comes a knocking...

 

[GrahamD]

::025::

We're NASA and We Know It (Mars Curiosity)

 

[Swagger]

Excellent ::008::