Whining noise from engine.

[gv550]

2016 with 270k. For the past several months I've noticed a whining or squealing noise from my engine, mostly at idle regardless of engine temperature. It's loud enough now to almost drown out the normal bucket of bolts noises. Most prevalent at the bottom of the crankcase on both sides of the engine. It probably whines all the time but wind and road noises hide it.
Thinking back to my kawasaki Vulcan days, the vn900 was infamous for burning out the stator, and one of the telltale signs was a whining noise. I wonder if my stator is failing, has anyone else experienced this? My voltmeter reads normal, 14.1v while riding.

 

[scott123007]

My S-10 always whined in 5th and 6th gear, but I don't remember anytime else.

 

[holligl]

Maybe post a YouTube video link? @~TABASCO would be your best bet. He's seen pretty much every thing. I assume your mileage is kilometers...

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[holligl]

You might also consider sending an oil sample in for lab analysis. If some bearing is going it might point to it. If the oil comes back clean, just upgrade your ear plugs.

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[thughes317]

Try leaving the pillion at home on the next ride?

 

[gv550]

I think I have eliminated the stator as being the source of the noise. As mentioned, the system voltage is 13.9 to 14.1 while riding, I unplugged the stator and the whining persists, resistance between any 2 of the 3 poles is .4 ohms, none show a path to ground. The FSM says .11 to .17 ohms using an analog tester but I only have a digital ohmmeter showing .4 but with all 3 readings the same I doubt there is any problem.
Pillion whine has also been a problem, but my mute button fixes that.
This bike has been making that noise for a long time without worries, I've become more sensitive to it since buying a second T12 that is much quieter.

 

[Cycledude]

I would love to hear what yours sounds like.
My 2018 has had sort of squeaky whine at idle or low speed since new, it’s slightly worse when cold, sometimes after it warms up I don’t notice the noise, my previous 2013 never made that noise or if it did I didn’t notice it.
A few years ago someone told me his was doing that and he switched to a Yamaha oil filter and the noise went away, I didn’t think that would change anything but next oil change I used the Yamaha filter and it still sounded the same.

 

[gv550]

I rode the bike to Romney, WV last week. Bike ran fine and everything seemed normal, the whine persists. One morning I started the engine from cold and let it it fast idle on the side stand, the whine (now more of a screech) became significantly louder and the engine RPM lugged down to nearly a stall. Before I could get to the kill switch the screech stopped and the RPM recovered and it idled and whined as before.
So now I'm thinking it is a scored or spun plain bearing on the crankshaft or balancer shaft. I want to check my oil pressure at idle but don't see anything about how to do that in the manual, nor any specs for pressure at various RPMs.
Is there a pressure check port on this engine?
paging @~TABASCO~ to the phone.....

 

[Jlq1969]

 

[~TABASCO~]

Ha-Ha..... Yes Sir ! ?

If it was at my shop I would:

1) Cut open the oil filter... take a look in the pleats.... Look for anything suspicious (Ive found surprises before)
2) Drain the oil.... look for suspicious "metal" or 'gold' flecks in the oil / pan
3) Pull the pan.... look for chunks, dust, GOLD dust, or anything else... With 270K it will be a little dirty anyhow... Also look up in the oil pump screen.

If you have anything "serious" you will probably see something with these three items..... If you do, post photos...... if you don't, we move on to step 4) - 5) - 6)

By the way, do you have a manual cam chain tensioner ? MCCT. Over the years, Ive seen folks that have those over tighten the MCCT. It wears off the 'wear' material and eventually gets down to metal.... it makes different noises at cold / hot & low / high RPM..... It just gets chewed up...... seen this a hand full of times.....

 

[gv550]

Thanks Jlq1969, I see that now in the periodic maintenance section, I was looking in the engine/oil pump section. It appears the pressure test port is the flat socket head plug with m20x1.5 thread..... not in my tool drawer.

 

[gv550]

@~TABASCO~ , I did replace the Yamaha CCT with a Graves MCCT about 3000 kms ago, along with a new OEM cam chain. Had both cams out to set the valves and there was no wear in the head or cam bearing journals. Very little wear in the original cam chain compared to the new one. None of these changes had any affect on the whine noise, same after as before.
I did an oil and filter change just before the Romney trip and didn't see anything shiny in the oil, I will cut the filter apart tomorrow and report back. I use only Yamaha 10w50 semi oil and OEM filters, change every 10k kms per Yamaha Europe schedule.

 

[~TABASCO~]

@~TABASCO~ , I did replace the Yamaha CCT with a Graves MCCT about 3000 kms ago, along with a new OEM cam chain. Had both cams out to set the valves and there was no wear in the head or cam bearing journals. Very little wear in the original cam chain compared to the new one. None of these changes had any affect on the whine noise, same after as before.
I did an oil and filter change just before the Romney trip and didn't see anything shiny in the oil, I will cut the filter apart tomorrow and report back. I use only Yamaha 10w50 semi oil and OEM filters, change every 10k kms per Yamaha Europe schedule.

OK. Let “us” know what the pleats of the filter look like. Look at them with a flash light. ‘Torch’

If it was my bike I would pull the pan next. Is there way you post a short video of this noise?

 

[gv550]

Here's the oil filter, I couldn't find anything shiny in any pleat.

This filter has been in service for 20,000 kms.
I do have a video of the whine noise, can't get it to attach here.
I measured the position of the rear cam chain guide with the stock tensioner and original chain, and noted how tight the chain was (it was very tight at every position of the crank and cams). With the new chain I would expect the guide to be further rearward, and it was slightly. I set the MCCT so the chain had one spot when it felt a bit loose, buttoned things up and started the engine. No rattle, and I couldn't hear any difference when I tightened the tensioner one turn, or loosened it one turn, so I put it back to my initial setting. Since the chain feels a little looser now than with the OEM tensioner I think I do not have it set too tight..... but I really don't know. Regardless, none of this had any affect on the whine and screeching noise.

 

[Tenman]

Maybe an administrator will help you figure out how to upload a video if possible

 

[~TABASCO~]

It looks like silver metal in the “V” portion of the pleat? Is that just “optical” with the camera. Looks like it’s full of silver metal….

 

[Jlq1969]

Here's the oil filter, I couldn't find anything shiny in any pleat.
View attachment 111582
This filter has been in service for 20,000 kms.
I do have a video of the whine noise, can't get it to attach here.
I measured the position of the rear cam chain guide with the stock tensioner and original chain, and noted how tight the chain was (it was very tight at every position of the crank and cams). With the new chain I would expect the guide to be further rearward, and it was slightly. I set the MCCT so the chain had one spot when it felt a bit loose, buttoned things up and started the engine. No rattle, and I couldn't hear any difference when I tightened the tensioner one turn, or loosened it one turn, so I put it back to my initial setting. Since the chain feels a little looser now than with the OEM tensioner I think I do not have it set too tight..... but I really don't know. Regardless, none of this had any affect on the whine and screeching noise.

20,000km in service?…I think it is too much for that filter, not only impurities from the engine pass through that filter, impurities from the clutch and from the gearbox also pass….if the squealing noise you feel gives you the sensation of a “dry” squeak….you should “maybe” check the starter motor.
This engine is spinning permanently, without motorcycle engine lubrication….

 

[gv550]

It looks like silver metal in the “V” portion of the pleat? Is that just “optical” with the camera. Looks like it’s full of silver metal….

Yes, I had a flashlight above and caused the oil to shine a bit silver. Here's the same pleat with no flashlight.

There are no metal particles. I could remove a pleat and wrap it in a towel to squeeze the oil out if that would help see any contamination.
I agree 20k is a bit far for a filter, it has happened 3 times in the life of this engine, doing an oil change on a road trip without removing the skid plate to replace the filter. I don't fret over it, seeing Yamaha schedule of replacing the filter every second oil change.
And I believe the starter motor does not rotate all the time the engine is running, it's connected via a one-way clutch. Item 16 below.

But you raise an interesting point, maybe that momentary loud screech and lugging engine that I heard last week was the starter clutch grabbing and spinning the starter?
Thanks for all of the advice, guys.

 

[Tenforeplay]

Did it sound anything like this?

My dishwasher keeps makin’ a weird noise.

youtube.com

 

[cyclemike4]

Yes, I had a flashlight above and caused the oil to shine a bit silver. Here's the same pleat with no flashlight.
View attachment 111609
There are no metal particles. I could remove a pleat and wrap it in a towel to squeeze the oil out if that would help see any contamination.
I agree 20k is a bit far for a filter, it has happened 3 times in the life of this engine, doing an oil change on a road trip without removing the skid plate to replace the filter. I don't fret over it, seeing Yamaha schedule of replacing the filter every second oil change.
And I believe the starter motor does not rotate all the time the engine is running, it's connected via a one-way clutch. Item 16 below.
View attachment 111610
But you raise an interesting point, maybe that momentary loud screech and lugging engine that I heard last week was the starter clutch grabbing and spinning the starter?
Thanks for all of the advice, guys.

I have seen Hondas eat up starter motor brushes by the starter clutch hanging up on them. I also have a old Yamaha 350 Warror four wheeler that has done just what you are describing your bike doing. it was the starter clutch. that bike has a large one way bearing that will lock in one direction and the eccentric bearings would roll and let loose once the motor started. some times they would just get stuck and would do just what you are saying. Might be something to check into.