What you did to your Tenere today??!!

[Ossaboy2867]

I’ve never had a problem with any cam chain tensioner, but with 100,000kms on my gen 2 version and forum talk of them failing I decided to replace it with a new gen 3. I now have 170,000 on the gen 3 and decided to go with a Graves manual because my engine sounds quite ‘rattly’ compared to my recently acquired T12 with one third the kms. Replaced the cam chain too. Not sure how to adjust it yet, I have it loose enough that I can move the chain guide a bit by hand, I expect I will gradually tighten it until (hopefully) the rattle disappears.
The previous owner of my second bike proudly stated nothing has ever been done the engine, no valve check in 9 years and 100,000 kms and still original gen 2 tensioner…… and it runs great. I’m torn between just riding it or do a full service of valve check, update the tensioner, spark plugs, etc.
LonghaulPaul told me his first T12 never had a valve check in 200,000 miles but he did install a manual tensioner, just turned it in a bit at each oil change until it ran out of adjustment!
I have read of gen3 tensioner failing, someone on this forum entered the iron butt rally a few years ago with a new T12 and the engine grenaded due to the tensioner failing. Yamaha fixed it under warranty and he sold the bike.

Thanks for the info. I ordered the Gen 3 model tensioner anyways to see what changes they made to it. I wish there was a way to "set" the tensioner to a known value instead of sound. I think the easiest and cheapest way to kind of check the manual tensioner is to lay the bike on its side and pull the clutch cover. You can see pretty far up into the engine that way and the gasket is cheap.

I know it is not recommended to tighten a manual cam chain tensioner when the engine is hot, but the auto tensioner does exactly that. Which this makes me wonder if that's why they "fail". Is it the chain that's actually failing? How did Yamaha come to this conclusion? Maybe every 40k I should replace the chain, shoes and tensioner as a set? I find it interesting that the chain is the same link size/pitch as some 125 and 250 air cooled 4 strokes with one cam. Once the engine grenades how does one without any doubt point to the tensioner as the failure point?

Im sure all of this has been beaten to death on here but at least it's more technical than an engine oil rant or what tires you run. I am a fairly competent mechanic I think and I am always looking for more knowledge about the mechanics and inner workings of engines such as this. And with the camshafts essentially rotating and relying on a thin film of pressurized oil for support I am genuinely interested in the fine details since that's my career, machining and designing custom babbitt bearings that float on pressurized oil! And with that, here are some of those cool bearings that are machined from scratch. I hope the mods don't get mad for posting them here, but it is sort of on the topic

 

[cyclemike4]

Thanks for the info. I ordered the Gen 3 model tensioner anyways to see what changes they made to it. I wish there was a way to "set" the tensioner to a known value instead of sound. I think the easiest and cheapest way to kind of check the manual tensioner is to lay the bike on its side and pull the clutch cover. You can see pretty far up into the engine that way and the gasket is cheap.

I know it is not recommended to tighten a manual cam chain tensioner when the engine is hot, but the auto tensioner does exactly that. Which this makes me wonder if that's why they "fail". Is it the chain that's actually failing? How did Yamaha come to this conclusion? Maybe every 40k I should replace the chain, shoes and tensioner as a set? I find it interesting that the chain is the same link size/pitch as some 125 and 250 air cooled 4 strokes with one cam. Once the engine grenades how does one without any doubt point to the tensioner as the failure point?

Im sure all of this has been beaten to death on here but at least it's more technical than an engine oil rant or what tires you run. I am a fairly competent mechanic I think and I am always looking for more knowledge about the mechanics and inner workings of engines such as this. And with the camshafts essentially rotating and relying on a thin film of pressurized oil for support I am genuinely interested in the fine details since that's my career, machining and designing custom babbitt bearings that float on pressurized oil! And with that, here are some of those cool bearings that are machined from scratch. I hope the mods don't get mad for posting them here, but it is sort of on the topic

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I can't say for sure what Yamaha's conclusions were on the timing chain tensioner failures were but my original tensioner spring and locking system would not always hold till the unit built oil pressure. So every now and then on a cold start it would clatter and rattle for a second or two. I am guessing if the chain was intact and the valves were bent they just figured the tensioner was the issue. Talking about the smaller bikes having the same size chains is a interesting topic as well. Over the years as my kids and by buddies kids got faster and more aggressive on the bikes it got to the point any of them riding a four stroke bike would need a timing chain every six months or less. the RPM and constant on off throttle and aggressive riding not to mention the cam profile and spring rates were very hard on chains. Interesting thing my buddy at the time had a Yamaha Rhino and his son had a Raptor 660. Both had very similar engines but used and rode in a very different manner. The Raptor timing chain was twice the size of the Rhino but it had to be replaced every six months. Yes the Rhino got rode very hard but cam profiles and it being belt drive was a lot easier on chains. I only replaced it once in the life of the machine.

 

[gv550]

Cool stuff @Ossaboy2867 , you have an interesting career .
I have the clutch cover off, before removing the original chain and gen3 tensioner I measured the gap between the case and the rear chain guide at 25mm. The guide and chain were very tight, could not feel play anywhere.

With the new chain and Graves tensioner I have a gap of 23.8mm, but with a wee bit of looseness in the guide. All this is well down from the tensioner, but the only place I could measure for reference.
I hung my old chain (270,000kms) on a rod beside the new one and it really wasn't worn very much at all.

Sunny and 10c here now so heading out for a ride on another bike, hopefully old yellow will be running tomorrow.

 

[holligl]

Cool stuff @Ossaboy2867 , you have an interesting career .
I have the clutch cover off, before removing the original chain and gen3 tensioner I measured the gap between the case and the rear chain guide at 25mm. The guide and chain were very tight, could not feel play anywhere.
View attachment 110628
With the new chain and Graves tensioner I have a gap of 23.8mm, but with a wee bit of looseness in the guide. All this is well down from the tensioner, but the only place I could measure for reference.
I hung my old chain (270,000kms) on a rod beside the new one and it really wasn't worn very much at all.
View attachment 110629
Sunny and 10c here now so heading out for a ride on another bike, hopefully old yellow will be running tomorrow.

I have an unscientific unproven theory that the automatic CCT may be why your chain wear was not bad even after all those miles. It seems to me that those who have experienced higher chain wear generally have manual tensioner. Not necessarily because they are poorly adjusted, but because the auto CCT does adjust to different conditions. Just my theory...

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[Ossaboy2867]

Ok I think I have a way to set the manual tensioner up when the top cover is off.

First rotate the engine clockwise slowly. Make sure exhaust cam lobes are under a load on left cylinder (if your sitting on bike). Make sure intake cam is in a neutral state where no lobes are touching the buckets. You want the exhaust cam under a load where the cam lobes are trying to rotate the cam and crank counter clockwise basically putting all the chain tension on the front half of the exhaust cam and crank sprockets. Place a 10mm wrench on the exhaust cam gear and slowly rotate the crank a bit more to where it locks up with the wrench. Don't force it, just take up all the slack.





At this point the cam chain has all of its load nice and tight on the front half of the exhaust cam gear and the front half of the crank cam chain gear. While pressing firmly on the exhaust cam chain and gear so the chain does not lift, loosen the manual cam chan adjuster. Be sure to have the jam nut backed off before this step.




If you loosen the manual cam chain adjuster now, the intake cam has no load on it and you should be able to wiggle it. Now you can tighten the chain and you get a better feel for how tight the chain really is because all the slack is now forced to the intake side of the cam chain. I bet you could still over tighten it but this process feels like it gets it really close where it needs to be. I would love to see how much a chain grows when it is at engine operating temp vs one that is at room temperature. This way once you have it tight when it's cold, you know it's right when the engine gets up to temp. Again this is all just thinking a little deeper than the instructions the Graves unit gives you. If the stock cam chain adjuster was built like the YFZ's we would have no issues because they have a manual locking devise as the tensioner goes out. Why on earth Yamaha used a buttress screw type that relies on oil pressure is beyond me. Also, put a pice of rubber hose on the end of the nut. It will eventually cut into the wire harness if you don't.

 

[gv550]

The aluminum engine block will expand with heat more than the steel cam drive parts, so the chain would be tighter with the engine hot, no?
And good see some dirt on your engine, I feel better now.

 

[gv550]

My valve cover is already on so I can't test your theory about the chain loading.
My observation is the rear strand of chain and the rear guide become loose as the left intake valves are opening, so that's where I set my Graves to take up most of that slack.
With the oem tensioner installed, the chain and rear guide is very tight no matter where the crank or cams are, so my initial setting is not too tight.

 

[TenereGUY]

My OEM tank bag zipper failed, so I went with the Water Proof Nelson Rigg Huricane V2. A lot smaller but pretty functional and stable. Less obtrusive for off roading. I did reuse the fanny pack bag, attached the the handle.

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Is that a magnetic bag? I like that even though it is smaller. Fit new tank and on rough terrain a plus!

 

[TenereGUY]

I admit, I haven't checked the rear brake as often as I should. The front pads had about half their usable pad left, but the rear, I felt drag slightly. I pulled the bolts and popped the pads out. There's still some pad there. Some. Somewhere. A thin layer. But it's there.

Anyway, new EBC FA319/2HH pads in place. Next time I swap those will also probably be time to swap the rotor. It's still got a lot of usable thickness, but I know those 2HH pads tend to eat Yamaha rotors. I also went ahead and greased the shift pivot, changed the motor oil, changed the diff oil, and will finish up the brakes/clutch fluid swap this weekend. I also went ahead and swapped the front brake pads out with EBC FA380HH pads and put away the Yamaha branded OEM ones that still had half a pad left as backup emergency spares.

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I just replaced the rear set with just a discoloration of pad material. No damage on the rotor yet but it would have very soon! Good catch.

 

[holligl]

Is that a magnetic bag? I like that even though it is smaller. Fit new tank and on rough terrain a plus!

Not magnetic. 4 straps. Very secure and stable, more so than OEM. It really does fit the tank nicely. One strap has the connectors at each end, which I looped under the seat. Two straps have a loop at one end and connector at the other. It would be more adaptable to mounting with 4 loop straps.

One thing I missed on the OEM bag was a shock cord to stick things in. Added my own and moved the fanny pack down.

Since it is smaller, I won't be using it for the hydration bladder. My new jacket will hold it, but I always liked it in the bag.

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[Jlq1969]

Why on earth Yamaha used a buttress screw type that relies on oil pressure is beyond me

The chain tensioner is not based on oil pressure. The pressure on the chain is exerted by the inner spring of the tensioner. As the chain stretches, the tensioner comes out to maintain constant pressure on the chain. The oil pressure only makes oil enter “the first time the tensioner is placed”, and then, each time the tensioner comes out. When the tensioner is in its permanent working position, the oil inside it cannot escape backwards (thanks to a check valve that allows the oil in but not out). If that valve is working perfectly, there is no way to retract the tensioner by hand (you have to compress it and "turn it so that the hydraulic seal fails) and it will discharge the oil behind the tensioner bolt...if the valve retention is faulty, the tensioner can be easily compressed, but in the workplace, that tensioner will “bounce” no matter how much oil pressure there is.

 

[Jlq1969]

What would be good to know is how much pressure the tensioner spring exerts. on the chain...and use that value to apply it to a manual tensioner..."maybe" you can compress a spring of the original tensioner using a torque wrench, and use that value obtained to adjust the manual tensioner with a dynamometric...( Maybe it would be a way to have the manual tensioner within the same spring specification)

 

[Tenforeplay]

Is the one way automatic CCT used on the present models, up to '23? I see there are updates to the manual, maybe 3 in total. Did Yamaha develop something that would not overtighten the chain?

 

[bimota]

the auto yamaha cct has been updated a few times its auto not manual and if you buy a new cct from yamaha you just get the latest version doesn,t matter if you have a 2010 or 2023 bike

rob

 

[cyclemike4]

Im not sure what keeps changing on the tensioners but my original i can screw in and compress with my hand. The updated one i put in years ago i had to use a clamp. Not sure about the tolorances of the machined parts but it did have a lot stronger spring. The spiral locking part felt a lot stronger as well. It didnt look any different but it has been holding for years when there is no oil pressure in the unit. There is no seal in the tensioner so over time it will loose oil out of the unit even if it has a check valve in it. It looks like yamaha has updated the oil filters again too. Different number and back to a shorter one again! I think they just put whatever oil filter they have too many of as a update! Haha.

 

[RCinNC]

Since some projects never seem to actually be done. Here's an addition to my motorcycle/automotive toolbox dolly from way back on post #16,927, Pg 847, from a little over a year ago:

I built a screwdriver rack for the dolly, so I don't have to keep fishing around in the lower box for a specific screwdriver.

 

[Jiivee]

New Zumo XT and Zumolock mounting today. The first impression is really nice and the screen is much brighter than my old Zumo 396.
Tomorrow... hopefully, the long awaited opening of the 2024 season after a long winter, if the weather is warm and sunny.

 

[Mad_Matt]

Just upgraded to Fastway Evo 4 pegs this week and wanted to share my initial thoughts. The stock OEM pegs were decent, but I found them lacking in traction off-road and in wet conditions. This made it tough to steer effectively with my feet. While the Evo 4 pegs are just slightly wider and longer, the difference in leverage and security is noticeable.

Previously, I had Fastway Adventure pegs on another bike. They offered great performance but were a bit too wide, often snagging the cuff of my pants, which resulted in a few awkward spills. The Evo 4 pegs seem to be the perfect middle ground—enough width without the drawbacks of the larger pegs.

On the downside, the Evo 4’s build quality doesn’t seem as robust as the Adventure pegs, though they are $100 cheaper, which might explain the difference. Overall, I think they’re a solid upgrade, especially for those who want better control without the bulk of larger pegs.

 

[bimota]

bike today hours ride, went in to have the McCRUISE fitted, new stainless clutch line 2 piece, and t bag filter swopped in the tank

rob

 

[Mallardmission]

Mounted a Zumo XT2 to a Toutatech adjustable windscreen bracket. Really nice setup. I am a GPS rookie and was a bit worried about the tech end but I am pleasantly suprised at the Tread App, very easy to use and create routes.