XT1200 Super Tenere dropped by Yamaha in Europe/UK

[Sierra1]

. . . . but I’ll give the bmw this, it has much better suspension out of the box. . . .

I know it's kinda apples and oranges, but, the RT is used to ride had nowhere near the suspension of the T-12. I had it dialed up to the max, and it still wasn't as stable as my T-12 is at only a 3/4 level. I don't know if your new T-12 is an e-suspension or not. IF it is, just take it out, and start playing with it. There's a lot of guys here that think the bike is under sprung. . . . there's also a lot of us that disagree.

 

[Johnwesley]

I have played around with the settings, I have it on two up damping at soft unless I running hard through the men’s and then is hard. The real issue seems the be the high speed compression circuit. Studded bumps, frost heaves, and other square edged bumps are pretty harsh for and adv suspension. Just a point of reference not a complaint. The bmw should have better suspension costing an additional 6 grand. That should be enough to get my suspension set up

 

[Sierra1]

I too have some crappy ass roads. That being the biggest reason I went with the T-12. I change my preload from two, to one with luggage. And, then switched from soft to hard. Seemed counterintuitive to me, but the wheel stays planted. Enough that even hitting the bigger bumps, the cruise never shuts off; it has with other settings. Of course suspension settings are a very personal preference; and has entirely too many variables.

 

[Johnwesley]

I too have some crappy ass roads. That being the biggest reason I went with the T-12. I change my preload from two, to one with luggage. And, then switched from soft to hard. Seemed counterintuitive to me, but the wheel stays planted. Enough that even hitting the bigger bumps, the cruise never shuts off; it has with other settings. Of course suspension settings is a very personal preference; and has entirely too many variable.

I’ll give that a try

 

[sky4]

I have played around with the settings, I have it on two up damping at soft unless I running hard through the men’s and then is hard. The real issue seems the be the high speed compression circuit. Studded bumps, frost heaves, and other square edged bumps are pretty harsh for and adv suspension. Just a point of reference not a complaint. The bmw should have better suspension costing an additional 6 grand. That should be enough to get my suspension set up

6 grand will buy you a lot of suspension. hell you could probably take your bike to a shop and have them fit it with sensors and help you set it up better than any stock bike for 6k....

 

[Longdog Cymru]

6k? Are you mad? Any decent suspension expert ought to do a ride-in, ride-out service and dial it into the correct settings for your use for around a grand or so and that is including springs, oil and suspension units too! If you’re not happy or not capable, take it to an expert.

 

[Longdog Cymru]

I like your take on this.

I think there is a clear rift between “adventure” bikes and “super sport adventure” in which i would place both KTM and BMW, maybe also ducati.

I strongly prefer the Japanese philosophy on adventure bikes being reliable first, almost to the point of being boring (looking at you vstrom) over the german “racebike with lights and farkles” concept. I am glad that both segments exist alongside each other.


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I agree, except I think BMW occupy the middle ground. On the one hand you have KTM and Ducati with the horsepower, on the other hand, you have Yamaha, Suzuki and to a lesser extent, Kawasaki producing damn good, everyday reliable, useable and practical motorcycles. Meanwhile, BMW are caught between two stools in the power stakes. They can’t go back because that would mean defeat and they are struggling to compete with the 160-170bhp bikes because I think without a completely new engine, they are reaching the limits of the flat twin in it’s current guise.

 

[firstime911]

May be Super tenere 1000cc instead..

 

[Dirt_Dad]

... I change my preload from two, to one with luggage. And, then switched from soft to hard. Seemed counterintuitive to me, but the wheel stays planted. Enough that even hitting the bigger bumps, the cruise never shuts off; it has with other settings. Of course suspension settings are a very personal preference; and has entirely too many variables.

One thing I've learned after switching to one of those 160hp super bikes with only 4 suspension dampening settings is just how incompetent I was with my Tenere ES settings. I've never pretended I knew anything about suspension, and I still don't, but I've learned I did a lot wrong with my S10-ES. I'll go as far as to say Yamaha did me no favors by trusting me to set my own suspension. I recognize I may be the only S10 rider to ever feel that way, but I am just too ignorant to have that many options.

KTM only trusts me with dampening settings of Dirt, Comfort, Street, and Sport. I can pretty much understand when to switch from one to another, but it was only earlier this month, after almost 6K miles when I realized how truly dramatic those differences were. The manual calls for working the forks after a front tire change before snugging up the last set of bolts. I grabbed the front brakes and weighted (or bounced) the handlebars. The bike barely moved at all. So little I pondered what the hell I did wrong on the tire change. I found nothing wrong. Got the bike off the table and was still perplexed. Front forks just stiff as could be. Then I moved the dampening from it's usual Sport setting to Dirt. Moments later the forks were as as light to the touch as my 690 R. Oh...!

That's when it struck me...Yamaha thought I knew stuff I clearly did not know. KTM doesn't trust me, and BMW doesn't trust their riders either. This may not be a popular thing to say here, but in the future Yamaha should dumb down their suspension settings. I trust Yamaha's engineers to do a better broad-brush estimate, that I could ever do guessing my own settings.

 

[JJTJ2]

One thing I've learned after switching to one of those 160hp super bikes with only 4 suspension dampening settings is just how incompetent I was with my Tenere ES settings. I've never pretended I knew anything about suspension, and I still don't, but I've learned I did a lot wrong with my S10-ES. I'll go as far as to say Yamaha did me no favors by trusting me to set my own suspension. I recognize I may be the only S10 rider to ever feel that way, but I am just too ignorant to have that many options.

KTM only trusts me with dampening settings of Dirt, Comfort, Street, and Sport. I can pretty much understand when to switch from one to another, but it was only earlier this month, after almost 6K miles when I realized how truly dramatic those differences were. The manual calls for working the forks after a front tire change before snugging up the last set of bolts. I grabbed the front brakes and weighted (or bounced) the handlebars. The bike barely moved at all. So little I pondered what the hell I did wrong on the tire change. I found nothing wrong. Got the bike off the table and was still perplexed. Front forks just stiff as could be. Then I moved the dampening from it's usual Sport setting to Dirt. Moments later the forks were as as light to the touch as my 690 R. Oh...!

That's when it struck me...Yamaha thought I knew stuff I clearly did not know. KTM doesn't trust me, and BMW doesn't trust their riders either. This may not be a popular thing to say here, but in the future Yamaha should dumb down their suspension settings. I trust Yamaha's engineers to do a better broad-brush estimate, that I could ever do guessing my own settings.

I am right there with you. I have adjusted next to nothing with my suspension because I have no idea what I am doing

 

[Sierra1]

I am right there with you. I have adjusted next to nothing with my suspension because I have no idea what I am doing

Don't be scairt. You're not going to break anything. Whether the setting is too hard, or soft. Just start adjusting; min to max. See what the results are. It only seems like rocket science.

 

[Johnwesley]

Don't be scairt. You're not going to break anything. Whether the setting is too hard, or soft. Just start adjusting; min to max. See what the results are. It only seems like rocket science.

I agree, play with it even if your mind says what you are doing is wrong. The dealer set mine up and said even in soft solo rider was a little stiff so no need to adjust. He was half right it did feel too harsh but the real problem was it bottomed very easy which made it feel stiff. Using the preload to solo luggage was better and two up preload even better. once that was set up then the damping setup actually made a difference. If you're worried about it just write down what you have now and you can always go back.

 

[gunslinger_006]

I am right there with you. I have adjusted next to nothing with my suspension because I have no idea what I am doing

Its so easy.

Just write down your starting positions and you can set it all back in 1min literally.


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[RonH]

My problem is I can never feel $0.02 worth of difference in suspension regardless of settings ect. Some guys can. I'm not one.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Its so easy.

Just write down your starting positions and you can set it all back in 1min literally.


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Wisest words in this thread so far by a long shot!

 

[Sierra1]

My problem is I can never feel $0.02 worth of difference in suspension regardless of settings ect. Some guys can. I'm not one.

Since I haven't ridden/adjusted a non-ES, I really don't know for sure. . . . but, with an ES, there's a distinct difference between min & max settings. Being able to adjust on the fly gives a better "seat of the pants" (literally) feel. You're going to like one end of the spectrum more than the other. I'm not even going to begin telling you where you should set the suspension. . . . your preference(s) may be nothing like mine. And, what I would tell you would likely not make sense since it would be counterintuitive. But, yeah, there is a difference in settings.

 

[dannyv]

Glad it is not just me. I have played around, but I can't tell what is happening, so I set everything back to mid setting. Now I pretty much leave it there.

 

[Sierra1]

The only issue I run into now, is that one setting, is not "good" for all surfaces. If all your roads are of similar condition, one setting will work. But, if you transition from smooth to rough, and back again, that's where the adjust on the fly is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Glad it is not just me. I have played around, but I can't tell what is happening, so I set everything back to mid setting. Now I pretty much leave it there.

That was me most of the time, but I would screw up when getting off road in a big way. I've always considered myself to be stone cold stupid when it comes to suspension, and now that I've seen what the KTM is doing, my self-assessment has been confirmed.

Here's what I can say...allowing the manufacture's engineers to estimate what is best for me on the dampening side of suspension means I actually change the dampening from sport to comfort to dirt at the appropriate times (almost never use street setting). When I do, even I can tell the bike is providing me with the smoothest ride I have ever experienced on a motorcycle in all 3 of those different situations. I am not suggesting the Tenere ES in incapable of doing the same thing, I know for a fact I am too uneducated to make the ES do the same thing...and I don't care to learn how to do it. Give me a button with 4 different settings for dampening, name each setting something I can understand, and I'm good.

 

[gunslinger_006]

Ktm is just doing the software side of the electronics a lot better than yamaha imho.

If i could get a bike with the power/weight and software of ktm but the reliability of yamaha, i would never ride anything else.


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