I'm only going off of my experience with shops and mechanics and how they do work. Your experience might be different. I'm also thinking the way I have my vehicles worked on at a service center is a solid and reliable way to do business. Thus me never having an issue with repairs done by someone other than myself.
And other guys in this thread (and in the numerous other "dealer horror story" threads) are going off
their experiences with dealerships, including the OP. The difference is that they aren't trying to invalidate
your good experiences, the way you try and invalidate their bad ones. Dismissing and deriding the bad experiences that many, many guys have had with shops and their resultant refusal to continue that process as "trust issues", and worse yet, blaming the
customer of all people for that poor experience with sub par repairs the way you do a few paragraphs down, is simply a form of elitism. In this worldview, the shop is always in the right, and if they aren't, it's the customer's fault.
Tig welder, lathes, mills presses, etc are standard at any good repair facility. Bent or broken frame, machining the head/cases, performance work, radiator repair, relieving cases for stroker kit, fabrication, etc. Good full service shops have all of the above and more.
Okay, but again, so what? I still don't get the relationship between my post that you quoted about how much it would have cost me to pay someone to do all the maintenance I've done over the years, and your response about how a good shop has all that stuff. It's a non sequitur. My statement had nothing to do with what a good shop either has or doesn't have in the way of equipment; it was a simple, non judgemental statement that it would have cost me a lot of money to pay someone to change 21 tires, etc.
For lack of a better word, IMO, it's ignorant to get a random over the phone quote and drop off your vehicle for repair. I see a lot of customers that bring it in, get a write up, and leave without ever stepping foot in the service bay or meeting the human who is going to do the repair.
If I can't see the work space or meet them in person then it's a no go for me. The horror stories of sub par repairs is almost always owner induced. Reputation is earned not given to some random shop with a phone quote.
Well, you'd be out of luck in every repair shop I've been in, because their liability insurance forbids allowing customers to hang out back in the shop area to watch the mechanics. Usually they have a sign somewhere making it clear that customers aren't allowed in the bays. It's especially unlikely that they'll let some random first time customer do it. If your particular mechanics allow that, then good on you; it's not the standard that most guys are going to encounter at most places, especially in a litigious society. You aren't going to be able to hang around giving the mechanic a skills test before you start asking about prices. So no, "ignorant" isn't the right word; "reality" is the right word. It's a "reality" that you, as an average customer going to a dealership, are going to get a book price for a job when you talk to the shop without being able to interview the mechanics and inspect the shop floor. If you'll only use a shop that allows that, I recommend you never leave the maintenance Nirvana that you now reside in. As for your contention that the stories of sub par repairs are almost always owner induced, well obviously that's anecdotal, and I'm willing to bet that the anecdotal evidence on the other side of that coin (i.e. that many guys' horrible dealer experiences were a result of the dealership's greed, incompetence, or a combination thereof) would far outweigh yours, and I bet they'd disagree with your assessment.
It is also very important to know how much a repair is going to cost before stepping into the shop. The only thing a customer should be concerned with when "random calling" is the hourly labor rate. If you have a service manual it's very easy to figure out how long the repair will take. Providing you don't have a bike that has been maintained poorly. Doing your homework before stepping into an unfamiliar shop is a very smart way of doing business.
LOL, so if you have a service manual, but you've never taken a steering head off and replaced the bearings and races, or broken a fork down and changed the seals, you claim it's easy to estimate how long that takes just from looking at the manual? I'd love to see that put to a test of random members on here to test the accuracy of that contention.
As far as knowing the price before stepping into the shop, you're right: It IS very important. That's why you call them and ask them what their price is for a valve check, or rotor replacement, or whatever. That's pretty much the definition of "knowing the price before you step into the shop". How does your way work to make it any better, as far as the price is concerned? You drop by the shop, hang out with the mechanics, satisfy yourself that all is well, and then the service manager gives you the same price for the job that he'd have given you if you were just some rando who walked in off the street or called them on the phone? And if someone did just call the shop and got the same exact price for a job that you got with your meticulous vetting of the mechanic, does that invalidate your method? I literally don't understand your claim that the only "right" way to get an estimate for a standardized service like a valve check is to take your bike to a shop, meet the mechanic, have him look at your bike, and say "yep, a valve check is $475.00". I can see that your way might give you more confidence in the mechanic himself (not that the shop has any legal obligation to ensure that they guy you talk to is the guy who'll actually do the job), but what does that have to do with what's essentially a fixed price? If I get a quote on the phone for $475 for a valve check and I take my bike in and the guy says "oh, your radiator hose is bad" and wants to know if I want to replace it, how is that any different from you taking your bike to the shop so the mechanic can look it over and say "well, the book on the valve job is $475.00, and I see your radiator hose is going bad, do you want me to replace it?". And certainly, one very good way to be informed about a price is to
call other shops and find out what they charge.
It's great that you have so many choices of great shops in your area, but your reality certainly isn't everyone's; it's not even in the same ballgame. The county I live in has a grand total of zero motorcycle shops that service Japanese bikes. The nearest shops are about an hour away; there are two within that distance. Neither one of them will allow customers to hang around in the shop area; they both have signs about that. I feel safe in predicting that a lot of guys in here face that same dilemma; very few choices, so you either take what you can get or you start learning how to do it yourself. And that doesn't make them lazy, or ignorant, or burdened with trust issues; it just means they have to deal with the reality of the situation.