Well another dealer bites the dust. If your sensitive dont read this post

RCinNC

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I would disagree with you Sierra that the last dealerships left will be the better ones, at least as far as consumers go As dealerships go under or are bought up by other dealerships, the last one standing is going to be the best capitalized one, not necessarily the best one. Corporatization and centralization might produce more efficient service, and more profitable service to the owners/stockholders, but whether they're going to produce better service is anyone's guess. Being the only dealership for fifty miles works great for the dealership, but the lack of competiton is terrible for the customer. You don't have to look any further than cable companies to see that in action.
 
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ballisticexchris

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As always there are good and bad stories to go around. It's unfortunate that any of us have to go through the hassle of sifting out the good shops from the bad. I'm fortunate enough to at least know the difference before letting someone other than myself touch my vehicle.

As far as not being able to enter the service department work space, It has never been a problem except for one time. I was at Connell Chevrolet to have my transmission replaced under warranty (mid 90's). I was denied entry to the service area. No sweat. I went to the parts department, then walked over to the open bays and watched them pulling transmissions. I was nervous but satisfied that it was going to be done right. They had a reputation for good work and are a AAA approved facility.

After that experience I always ask politely but firmly if I can see the service department work space and meet the tech doing the work. It has never been an issue. In fact I was in the dyno room to help do the final jetting to my XR650R. Both the tuner and I agreed to go one up on the main and lose almost 4HP to have a much more reliable motor.

BTW, just looking at the Super Tenere, steering head bearing service including pressing out the races should be no more than 3-4 hours labor shop time. Of course that is a tech that knows what they are doing. For me it would be a weekend job.....
 

OldRider

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That is not my experience. No mechanic or service center worth there salt is going to give a quote over the phone without seeing the bike. Sub par dealers hurting for work will do phone quotes just to get you in the door. This fact was proven when I called RPE for a quote.
I'm going to disagree with this too. As a shop owner I can tell you that we get bombarded every day with "how much will it cost" calls. Most jobs are pretty easy to quote an "estimate" on. How would looking at an S10 change a quote to do the valves? They should actually give you a couple prices. One for just checking the clearance and one for pulling the cams. You also add the disclaimer about extra for taking off added accessories that are in the way and hidden problems that can pop up. Most people won't bring a bike in without at least some kind of an estimate for repairs. Another thing service departments have to deal with is that people are so afraid of being ripped off they want you to give them an exact price up front on what something is going to cost.
 

gv550

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I may need to visit BC for my next valve adjustment. I'm not sure any dealers will still be in business by the time this virus is done. Half the ones within 50 miles of me closed last year.



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Hey, I would really enjoy meeting you in BC for some great mountain riding this summer....................... but my valve adjusting tools will be back home, in Ontario! ;)
 

holligl

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Hey, I would really enjoy meeting you in BC for some great mountain riding this summer....................... but my valve adjusting tools will be back home, in Ontario! ;)
Oops, I knew that...

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moto.monk

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I do most of my own work but in most cases where I have chosen to use a shop to have work done the service has been very good although expensive , it costs a lot of money to keep a good shop going And it’s definitely not all profit.
Possible service needs are a very important thing to Consider when buying .
For me it wasn't about the money just the lack of doing the right thing
 

gv550

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Well, you'd be out of luck in every repair shop I've been in, because their liability insurance forbids allowing customers to hang out back in the shop area to watch the mechanics. Usually they have a sign somewhere making it clear that customers aren't allowed in the bays. It's especially unlikely that they'll let some random first time customer do it. If your particular mechanics allow that, then good on you; it's not the standard that most guys are going to encounter at most places, especially in a litigious society. You aren't going to be able to hang around giving the mechanic a skills test before you start asking about prices. So no, "ignorant" isn't the right word; "reality" is the right word. It's a "reality" that you, as an average customer going to a dealership, are going to get a book price for a job when you talk to the shop without being able to interview the mechanics and inspect the shop floor. If you'll only use a shop that allows that, I recommend you never leave the maintenance Nirvana that you now reside in. As for your contention that the stories of sub par repairs are almost always owner induced, well obviously that's anecdotal, and I'm willing to bet that the anecdotal evidence on the other side of that coin (i.e. that many guys' horrible dealer experiences were a result of the dealership's greed, incompetence, or a combination thereof) would far outweigh yours, and I bet they'd disagree with your assessment.


<snip>
In a previous life I used to own and operate a service business (not bike related) and I asked my insurance agent for their reduced rate if I prohibited customers from the service bays, and such reduced coverage was never available. And why would it be? No company owner would leave themselves exposed to liability if a customer (or child) wondered into certain areas of the property. If you don't want customers in the service area then simply say so, don't lie and blame insurance.
Our business was completely open concept, customers were free to walk anywhere and watch and ask questions along the way, nothing hidden.
 

jeckyll

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I'm going to disagree with this too. As a shop owner I can tell you that we get bombarded every day with "how much will it cost" calls. Most jobs are pretty easy to quote an "estimate" on. How would looking at an S10 change a quote to do the valves? They should actually give you a couple prices. One for just checking the clearance and one for pulling the cams. You also add the disclaimer about extra for taking off added accessories that are in the way and hidden problems that can pop up. Most people won't bring a bike in without at least some kind of an estimate for repairs. Another thing service departments have to deal with is that people are so afraid of being ripped off they want you to give them an exact price up front on what something is going to cost.
This. Valves aren't hard, you only have one variable (i.e. do they need to be adjusted). So min / max shouldn't be that hard. Sometimes there'll be a consideration of re-using gaskets, but generally only one. And again, it's an estimate, not a contract.

If you come in saying "I got a weird noise, how much will it cost to fix it" or "It doesn't feel right riding down the highway, what'll it cost" totally different story. But tires, oil & filter, valves, are all pretty standard stuff...
 

Kyle_E

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I just now called RPE for a quote for valve adjustment on a Super Tenere. They quoted me 595.00 without even seeing the bike. That right there tells me to not bring my bike to them. I have never ever got a repair/service quote over the phone. A good service center will always tell you bring the bike in first. For our area the are a bunch of outstanding shops that do solid work.

That's not how that works.....

A factory dealer should absolutely be able to tell you the price of a standard service item (valves) over the phone. Not to the penny. But they should have it in the computer a valve job pays X hours at customer pay and X hours at factory pay. In the modern times they can probably quote it to include shop supplies, tax and such in 4 mouse clicks.

Now if you call and say my bike is leaking coolant how much is that to fix? Yeah, of course that's a "bring it in" because it could be a water pump, it could be a radiator cap, it could be..... So nothing they can quote over the phone.

But on a scheduled maintenance item, if they are telling you to bring the bike in before giving a quote, you need a new shop.
 
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ballisticexchris

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I can see I'm odd man out when it comes to how I do repairs. That's cool. I get all my repairs done by service techs that I know and trust or have heard from friends that have used them. I don't normally do the cold call "how much does it cost" to some random dealer. I did today and was actually surprised that they quoted me a price no questions asked.

If an unknown dealer was doing my valves I ask questions like: How much time do you need to keep the bike, can I have the clearance measurements, are you going to inspect my cams and put a mic to them, inspect/replace cam chain (depending on bike), will you please remove my clutch and check the plates/basket at the same time, will you please take pictures of everything as you go along, replace the valve cover gasket, etc, etc, etc.

I am very detailed in exactly what I want the tech to do. I write everything down and have him check it off and explain exactly what his procedure is before and if he had any problems after the job is done.

I let the dealer do the first 600 mile service on my Super Tenere. When I purchased the bike I was given a heavy discount for it. I met with the tech and inspected his work space. He did everything on the 600 mile service plus a little extra. After he finished the bike he went through everything including the issues to expect inherent to this machine during ownership. The Super Tenere has a nasty spoke loosening problem and the steering head bearings are to be checked at every oil change service. Really good info. These guys see bikes day in and day out so it was well worth the expense of letting a Yamaha Master Technician do the work.
 

Kyle_E

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Just some thoughts on dealerships in general. Other than our BMW and HD dealers it is full on side by side city now days.

2 years ago you couldn't drive by a Ride Now in town (think we have 5) without seeing a STACK of bikes on the lot out front. Now days you see none. They have some bikes inside and a good selection of them. But out on the lot and in the service bays and stacked in every spare space is a side by side. Bikes are going the way of the dodo to dealers. Just based on what I am seeing their world is SxS and nothing but SxS.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Just some thoughts on dealerships in general. Other than our BMW and HD dealers it is full on side by side city now days.

2 years ago you couldn't drive by a Ride Now in town (think we have 5) without seeing a STACK of bikes on the lot out front. Now days you see none. They have some bikes inside and a good selection of them. But out on the lot and in the service bays and stacked in every spare space is a side by side. Bikes are going the way of the dodo to dealers. Just based on what I am seeing their world is SxS and nothing but SxS.
Oh boy the side by sides!! Yes they are a hot item right now. And also a real danger on the trails!!
 

Kyle_E

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I can see I'm odd man out when it comes to how I do repairs.
Not a repair. A specific maintenance task. That's what we are all talking about. Its not tracing a wiring problem where there is an unknown variable.

Its nuts and bolts. Aftermarket companies like Chilton set time standards for this type of thing that most shops follow to give customers protection from being ripped off, and they are usually generous enough that the dealers are fine with the times.

Can you run into something weird on a nuts and bolts thing? YEP and it will cost more money. Can you as a dealer add in things to that basic maintenance service that they feel needs to be done? YEP, and you can charge for it. Can a customer request pictures ever 5 seconds of the job and extra stuff? YEP and you can charge them for it.

But there is a baseline set by Chilton or whoever the dealer uses that says a mechanic should take 3 hours to do inspect the valves. Then that dealer can say we tack on a $30 shop supply charge and a $5 waste disposal charge and tax on the oil and the total sir will be $620 give or take.
 

Kyle_E

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Oh boy the side by sides!! Yes they are a hot item right now. And also a real danger on the trails!!
Yeah kinda out of nowhere and happened fast. I mean seriously when I bought my Versys from a Ride Now just about 2 years ago, lot is littered with bikes outside and they had 2 building stuffed with them separated out to different makers. They had a third building of SxS that was a bit smaller than the other 2 big ones and a few out on the lot.

Now days, the bikes are in the smaller building and none on the lot. The lot is covered in SxS and both big buildings are mostly SxS with only a few higher end used stuff like HD.
 

RCinNC

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I'm not real clear on the point you're trying to make, gv550. You had a shop that had service bays, and your insurance wouldn't give you a reduced rate if you prohibited customers from being in I assume dangerous areas like service bays, from which I infer that presumably you did have to have some kind of liability insurance to cover you for injuries to customers sustained on your premises. You say that no company owner would leave themselves open to the liability of a customer wandering into certain (presumably more dangerous) areas of the property, so your solution to that liability issue was to ...allow customers to walk anywhere and watch and ask questions along the way? Are you saying that you allowed your customers to walk anywhere on the premises that they wanted, even while aware of your heightened liability for allowing them to go places that were inherently dangerous?

I have no idea what the requirements are in the US for garage and garage-keeper liability insurance policies, and if carriers here set safety requirements for garages in much the same way as homeowners' policies set safety requirements for people who own pools. But I'm not going to immediately start accusing a business of lying if they say that their insurance carriers require them to restrict access to areas of their business with elevated risk. Maybe there's an insurance agent on the forum that could shed light on it, or someone who currently owns or manages a garage.
 

holligl

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Oh boy the side by sides!! Yes they are a hot item right now. And also a real danger on the trails!!
What do you mean??

I actually would like to get one for family use. I've rented them a couple times. The one place warned that most of the roll overs occur in the parking area after the ride was over, cutting donuts and catching a wheel.

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Tenman

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The only shops I've ever been to that would allow a customer in the mechanics area were independent small shops. Every dealer shop I've ever been to would not let any customers behind the counter. Signs up everywhere.
 

Kyle_E

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What do you mean??

I actually would like to get one for family use. I've rented them a couple times. The one place warned that most of the roll overs occur in the parking area after the ride was over, cutting donuts and catching a wheel.

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Are the CV joint on these things made from paper? Every time I see one broken its a front CV.
 

HeliMark

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I just now called RPE for a quote for valve adjustment on a Super Tenere. They quoted me 595.00 without even seeing the bike. That right there tells me to not bring my bike to them. I have never ever got a repair/service quote over the phone. A good service center will always tell you bring the bike in first. For our area the are a bunch of outstanding shops that do solid work.

Here are the two I have used and another one that I have had the mechanics do work in the past before they opened their own shop:

Berts Mega Mall: The go to Service Tech is Shawn. He rides and knows any bike inside and out:

Little story for you on Berts. First they do quote a fixed price on a valve job, on the phone.

Berts did my first valve job. Thought they did a great job, until it was opened up for its second one. Found the rubber gasket was pinched in several places, and was obviously known to the mechanic that did the job as he placed the pinched parts back into where they should go. When I called and tried to talk to them about it, all I got was the usual "so sorry, so sad," it has been awhile, so tough luck.
 
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