Valve adjustment - more lessons learned

greg the pole

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greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
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Hotcams HCSHIM02 9.48 mm kit, left over from Suzuki DL1000 days, fits the Tenere also.
if memory serves, valves from factory are whatever they had lying around, and fit the bill...
When doing valves, get yourself a valve shim kit (10mm diameter). Increments of .05 are typical.
As Bernie stated, they fit pretty much all Japanese bikes. The 10mm will fit zooks, Yammies, and honders...not sure about kwaks..
 
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greg the pole

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That's a really good tip. And good to know it works on a ST just like on my Beta!! I used zip ties to lift the cams and replace shims and put back together as well!
i'm not 100% sure it would work. The ties are there to hold it in place from skipping once the intake cam caps get tightened up.
The tenere puts a huge amount of pressure on the intake cam, exhaust is not that big of a deal. I guess if one were to mark chain position prior to disassembly on bottom and top sprockets...also chains strech. When I rebuild my motor, I swapped in a new chain. The old one streched by half a link or so over 90k km.
Besides, if your intake valves need a different shim, would that not move the corresponding teeth? just thinking out loud.
 

WJBertrand

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I used the zip ties similarly to as pictured above but I put them on both cam sprockets. I was able to tilt the cams far enough out of the way to reach the buckets and shims without removing them from the engine. This allowed me to leave the zip ties in place for the entire procedure. The shims on the far right, closest to the cam sprockets were a bit fiddly to remove and replace but it's possible.
 

Mikecmp

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Anyone know which of the plugs on the bottom of the tank goes where? I didn’t realize the plugs in the tank itself were both white. Frigging Yamaha could at least put a green dot for the green connector

I have the bike ready to test except for this

Please help!

Mike
 

Mikecmp

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Bernie helped me out with a pic - The connectors looked the same.... might have been different but its all sorted...

And the bike RUNS! woo hoo!

The intake timing mark was perfect but sank just a little lower than the head when we tightened everything up. Seemed sloe enough and moving one tooth would have put it proud of the head, so I left it. Seems to run fine.

Put in the new clutch basket, Graves manual CCT, and my shims. All good. I quickly out it all back together to test it, I did not bolt up the hydraulic hoses in case is exploded or something was wrong. I know it runs so I will go over everything tomorrow!

Thanks for you help everyone, appreciate it. I will pay it forward, my other friend with a Tenere is coming up on his check up and I will help him out!


Thanks!
Mike
 

MikeinNZ

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Finally bit the bullet and checked the valve clearances today, 72,000 ks and all within spec thank goodness. Found 2 different types of sealant on the valve cover so it has been checked before.
Found water had been in one of the Spark plug tubes and tracking marks on the insulator so cleaned that up. Running like a dream.
Thanks to those who have paved the way with the great info in this thread.
 

Mikecmp

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My new spark plugs showed p two days after putting the bike back together, of course.....

I ordered the platinum ones from the spark plug thread, we’ll see if they are any good. My current plugs are not very old so I got them just for the heck of it I guess.

Still nervous, the bike runs but i am a reliability person and it will bug me until I rode it a bit. I’m sure it’s just fine, but still have nagging doubts

Mike
 

old1959

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I checked my valves at almost 24k miles and found them all within spec. The feeler gauge size I used was the one that would slide in nice and easy; not next size up that required a push. All within spec.
IMG_2457.JPG
I almost thought about shimming the one exhaust valve that was at 0.009" but figured I leave well enough alone since I could get a 0.010" gauge in there but was a push.
 

old1959

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Now the bitch part... Yamaha has made this job a pain by making the removal of the valve cover a true pain. On the FJR (previous bike) the frame brace over the valve cover is bolted in place; S10 is welded. If the brace were removable, then getting the cover out would be easy like on the FJR.
IMG_2449.JPG

What worked for me was to remove the front engine mount plate which allowed the cover to be rotated and, while laying under the bike, remove the three screws wjhich held in place a small sheet metal splash guard. I basically rotated the cover clockwise (looking from top) so the screws were accessible. Once removed the cover pulled out to the rear. For reassembly, I used gasket sealer to "glue" a new valve cover gasket to the cover and allowed to set for a few hours for a decent bond and reversed the steps to remove the cover.
IMG_2458.JPG
 

SilverBullet

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I checked my valves at almost 24k miles and found them all within spec. The feeler gauge size I used was the one that would slide in nice and easy; not next size up that required a push. All within spec...
I've always used feeler gauges as a go/no-go measurement. If it goes in that is the gap. Keep increasing the thickness until it doesn't insert.
Level of resistance while inserting the gauge shouldn't matter, only whether it inserts or doesn't.

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B

ballisticexchris

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I've always used feeler gauges as a go/no-go measurement. If it goes in that is the gap. Keep increasing the thickness until it doesn't insert.
Level of resistance while inserting the gauge shouldn't matter, only whether it inserts or doesn't.

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Using feeler gauges is like an oil thread. Everyone has their own way of doing it.

FWIW I use my feeler gauges just like old1959 does. My father and brother were both class A machinists and that's how I was taught as a young man. "Just a slight drag" as my dad would say.

Now the bitch part... Yamaha has made this job a pain by making the removal of the valve cover a true pain. On the FJR (previous bike) the frame brace over the valve cover is bolted in place; S10 is welded. If the brace were removable, then getting the cover out would be easy like on the FJR.

What worked for me was to remove the front engine mount plate which allowed the cover to be rotated and, while laying under the bike, remove the three screws wjhich held in place a small sheet metal splash guard. I basically rotated the cover clockwise (looking from top) so the screws were accessible. Once removed the cover pulled out to the rear. For reassembly, I used gasket sealer to "glue" a new valve cover gasket to the cover and allowed to set for a few hours for a decent bond and reversed the steps to remove the cover.
Thank you for the great tips to make the job easier!!
 

old1959

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SilverBullet, if that is the case, then the clearances were approximately 0.001" more since in almost every case I could get the next size to slide in.

Oh, and one more complaint to Yamaha. The breather hose. The vent is on the left side of the valve cover so why not route the hose to a nipple on the left side of the airbox and make it more accessible? I can understand placing the vent in the middle of the airhorns in the airbox but this could be accomplished with molding a tube of passage way.
 

old1959

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Yes, a slight drag. Not a force fit is how I was taught. However, I'm sure the engineers allow some tolerance for the difference in feel.
 

SilverBullet

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Using feeler gauges is like an oil thread. Everyone has their own way of doing it.
Hmm I never realized there was different camps for that. LOL
But for screw/locknut tappet valves I knew never to crank it down so hard feeler gauge could be deformed.

In the end such a small difference doesn't mean squat anyway. Spec tolerance is only engineer's swag guess and even out of spec typically will not be an issue unless grossly out.

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scott123007

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I hate to chime in on threads like these because they always turn into "well, I was taught...", but against my better judgement, I just can't help myself sometimes. LOL
From 1973 until 1981 I was a Kawasaki and Suzuki mechanic. From 1983 until 1989 I worked solely for Suzuki. In those years I went to all the OEM seminars these manufacturers had from the Z-1 (1973) to the GSXR 1100. In that time period, the three "main" types of OHC valve opening systems that we have currently (rocker arm, shim over bucket, and shim under bucket) were all in use in various engine configurations. I quoted "main" because I have no experience with pneumatic and desmodromic systems. For the last thirty years, I have mostly fiddled with my own herd, and friends bikes, and for a couple of years, a roadrace team.

This is what WE were taught by the companies that actually build these things...
Rocker arm operated valves...
1)Need clearance attention the most.
2)Have specific settings (not a range).
3)Generally gain clearance over time.
4)Are checked / adjusted by inserting the correct feeler gauge for the specific clearance. If the gauge goes in with no effort, or will not go in at all, the valve should be adjusted to spec. To accomplish this, the adjuster screw on the rocker arm should press the feeler gauge against the valve stem in such a way that AFTER the locknut is tightened, there is enough resistance in the feeler gauge to feel snugness moving it back and forth.

It is generally accepted that the wear between the cam lobe and rocker interface and the rocker arm adjustment screw and valve stem, are greater than the wear of the valve face and seat, thus the clearance increasing.

ALL SHIMMED valve clearances are a "setting" range, NOT an "operating" range. I think some people need to let that sink in. What that means is the engine manufacturer is saying that you can set a shimmed valve at the MINIMUM of the clearance range, (or MAXIMUM for that matter) given in their specs., and you are in no danger of engine damage from a valve getting too tight or too loose for the duration of the valve adjustment interval.
In shim OVER bucket systems the clearance range is narrower and tighter, and the clearance check intervals are more frequent than shim UNDER bucket systems. The reason for that is two fold. In shim over bucket valve trains, the clearances tend to increase between intervals, about 80 percent of the time, and with too much clearance the chance of spitting a shim is greatly increased. Also, may engines with shim over bucket valve trains did not have rev limiters which was another cause of spitting shims. It is generally accepted that the wear between the cam lobe and the shim is slightly greater than the valve face and seat which lead to clearances increasing. However, engines that were revved to the point of occasional valve float, would see their valve clearance decrease over time because of the hammering the valve face took, if they didn't spit a shim first. LOL

Which brings us to the most dependable and durable of the OHC systems, the shim UNDER bucket. Nowadays, with captured shims, rev limiters, and water cooling commonplace, valve clearances can be far greater than ever. This is the main reason for extended valve check intervals.
More likely than not, when a shim measures .001" less than the minimum setting at valve check time, that valve was probably at the minimum clearance range out of the factory. From my experience, I would bet that if left alone until the next clearance check, it would still have the same reading. None of these engines are in any danger of valve damage unless their clearance reaches zero, and I've yet to see that happen in a shim under bucket system, some in excess of 150,000 miles with no adjustment, ever! I'm in no way advocating a no maintenance approach to your beloved steed, but I think there is WAY too much hysteria when it comes to a valve that is .001" tighter than the original minimum.

Furthermore, a valve adjustment interval is arbitrary at best. No one knows how someone is going to operate their motorcycle. What a valve adjustment interval is based on, is the amount of estimated revolutions an engine is going to turn before the manufacturer says the valves need checking. The same manufacturer that wants you to change your plugs at 12,000 miles, your hoses every four years and a whole host of other things that most owners scoff at and think is way too soon. Let's create an extreme case scenario. Rider#1 likes to do all riding in first gear only. Rider #2 loves to get into sixth gear as soon as possible and do all riding in sixth gear. They now both have 24,000 miles on their bikes but rider#1's bike has turned DOUBLE the engine revolutions in the same mileage. Go figure.
So what's the paranoia about valves? If, and that's a big if, they are getting too tight, you will have a ton of warning with the bike becoming hard to start and running crappy, before any burnt valves are in the picture.
 
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