Trailer hitch

Don in Lodi

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Re: Towing a trailer with the Super Tenere?

Not a fan of the rear axle mounted hitches...
 

Checkswrecks

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Re: Towing a trailer with the Super Tenere?

sallydog said:
looks like a moto mule. whats the deal? thats what im looking for. how much? where to get?

Not sure if it's his, but very much like Thagua's in South America. His is/was a one-off.
As Don implied, that tongue weight is all unsprung which can affect the ride and handling.
 

Checkswrecks

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Re: Towing a trailer with the Super Tenere?

It's Thagua's and I had the country wrong. He is in Santiago, Chili. He posted these on ADV on 10/21/12:











 

Random ride

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I like how clean and simple the design is. Very strong, lightweight, and well engineered as not to overload any one part of the bike. I've been trying not to go down this road, but if the wife goes with me on a trip it'll be either this or a convertible :-\
 

bvail

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"Manual states that This vehicle is not designed to pull a trailer or to be attached to a sidecar."
I believe they all say that, except for the Ural.
 

Z06

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bvail said:
"Manual states that This vehicle is not designed to pull a trailer or to be attached to a sidecar."
I believe they all say that, except for the Ural.
They do. Just responding to a question about weights.
 

DavidL

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I am looking forward to my 2012 Tenere hitch that Z06 is making for me this spring. If anyone else is in need of a Yamaha Tenere 1200 hitch, ping Z06 now as he is getting set up to make mine:)

Thanks Dave
 

snakebitten

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awesome!

I'm so tempted. But there is so much I wanna haul with me.
I don't trust myself. ::)
 

Checkswrecks

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Question for anybody who has pulled a trailer with a Tenere. I'm interested in a Mini Mate or Alite camper, which are billed as 265# and 400# respectively. Figuring that I'd probably throw more junk in, how would the braking action suffer at 300 and 450 pounds?

Would these weights be to the point your experience says that e-brakes would be needed?
 

jmoore

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I have pulled my leisure lite [235#] with some extra weight, so probably about 300# did not have any issues with braking. I do ride at a more leisurely pace 60-65 when puling the trailer.
 

jmoore

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Forgot to mention that normally when puling the trailer I am two up with loaded panniers, without upsetting my wife neither of us are petite.
 

becoyote

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Checkswrecks said:
Question for anybody who has pulled a trailer with a Tenere. I'm interested in a Mini Mate or Alite camper, which are billed as 265# and 400# respectively. Figuring that I'd probably throw more junk in, how would the braking action suffer at 300 and 450 pounds?

Would these weights be to the point your experience says that e-brakes would be needed?
More than I would have pulled on the Tenere. Maybe with trailer brakes I'd consider it. The 10 could probably stop it all in a nice and orderly straight line. If things weren't all lined up I would hate to have 400 pounds of trailer trying to push the ass end of the bike to one side or the other.
 

Don in Lodi

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Checkswrecks said:
Question for anybody who has pulled a trailer with a Tenere. I'm interested in a Mini Mate or Alite camper, which are billed as 265# and 400# respectively. Figuring that I'd probably throw more junk in, how would the braking action suffer at 300 and 450 pounds?

Would these weights be to the point your experience says that e-brakes would be needed?
There was a gent here for a while bvail... Bob Vail. He and I met in Cheyenne in 2000, he was towing a pop-up behind his Royal Star then. He had a pop-up in Ourey for our gathering behind a Wing. We've both been moderators on a Delphi Trailer Towing Forum. I think he's still there. Bob is the most experienced heavy puller I know personally. The general consensus used to be not to exceed half your bike's GVW when pulling a trailer without electrics. #400 would be right at the limit. Me, I'd want electrics at 400+. 400 is also putting 40-60 pounds of down force on the hitch. Another 'rule'; 10-15% of the trailer GVW at the ball. Single wheel trailers don't fit this conversation well. I tried everything I could think of to upset my loaded 300 GVW Harbor Freight trailer behind my Royal... hardly even noticed the extra load. I've known of #600 being towed.
Pulling is a great way to travel, it opens up a lot of possibilities. It also opens you up to a few more hazards, not insurmountable, but there.
 

Checkswrecks

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I bought a hitch from Dave/Z06 and thought it would be good to post what I had to do to make it usable. I've now got a couple of days towing a MiniMate Kompact Kamp. They've been made since the 1980's and can be found used for under $1,000 if you keep your eyes open. It rolls on 8" wheels so that and the tongue height are nearly the same as the little Harbor Freight trailers.


I wanted a basecamp just big enough to tow behind the truck, small enough to go behind the Tenere, sleep off the ground, 5 minute set-up for rest stops, with enough room to stand in. While the MiniMate is billed as 265 lbs, I've read reports that it can be closer to 280 and the hitch weight is roughly 25-30 lbs, depending on how mine is loaded. When the camper is closed, there are 15 cubic feet of storage in the bottom, so that's where the camp chair and folded pop-up go there when underway. I really don't need to use the panniers with all that space.
For more info on the trailer: http://www.kompactkamptrailers.com/#!minimatecamper/cfvg

Dave's welds and bends are nice and clean workmanship. He's sold a number of these unpainted hitches and folks have towed things, but it was unusable for the Minimate. To his credit, he offered to either take the hitch back or make a new one with a different height for the ball. So don't take any of what follows as criticism of him, it is simply what my own use required. And Yamaha says that this bike was not intended to be a tow vehicle.


First off, Dave and others are using trailers with a higher tongue. For the Compact Kamp or HF the hitch was way too high and angled too far forward. The hitch was also far above the centerline of the axle, meaning that braking loads would unload the rear wheel. The math for braking into full ABS with the trigonometry of the coupler indicates that the rear tire could be unloaded by 42.5 lbs in .3 seconds. Not what I wanted, especially if in a curve. (Deceleration loads are also critical and mentioned at the end of this write-up.)
This is how the hitch originally was and it is too high. The trailer coming forward under braking lifts the rear wheel.


Lowering the ball about 5" would put it behind the axle and fix the tilt. However, dropping it 5 inches meant that if the suspension fully compressed in a turn, the hitch was getting way too close to the road and could lift the rear wheel off the ground. And lowering the drawbar pushed down the center stand enough that dragging it becomes a major concern, since I do run gravel roads with the bike. (B.E. Coyote cut part of his stand off due to this concern.) My compromise was to go down 3" on the ball and up 2" on the coupler of the trailer tongue. I may still remove the center stand.


This is the point where the welding torch came out and the drawbar was slightly bent near the footpegs. When I'm on and loaded, the ball is still slightly above the axle, but when the suspension is compressed I'm not worried about catching hard parts on the road.

Next was the new need for longer vertical hangars. Z06 makes his from flat bar stock, with a slight twist. They are thick enough that they probably won't buckle if the hitch deflects up under braking, on a bumpy road, or hanging the hitch up on a curb. And he's had no problem with his. Still, since I had to make new hangars anyway I preferred to use steel tube to prevent even the possibility. Back out with the torches. If you do the same, realize that the tabs at the ends all have different angles, so mark them separately for Left and Right.


There is also absolutely no way the bike could tilt into a turn without a swivel hitch. It was also necessary to lower the trailer tongue to prevent dragging the footwell in the ass end of the trailer. Rather than buying a swivel coupler which slips into the trailer tongue, I cut a couple of pieces of 1/4" plate and bolted the swivel above the tongue to get another 2" drop on the tongue. It's still a touch higher than ideal, but works.


The next issue was that there was still enough angle and height that the threaded rod in the bottom of the coupler lock mechanism rode on the hitch. It's visible in the second photo. So this meant the threaded locking rod needed to be cut.


Having the swivel also lengthens the tongue, which is a stabilizing force for the trailer.

The electrical connector is a standard 5 pin flat, which is mounted inside of the rear fender, ahead of the license plate. The wires are spliced beneath the rear seat.

So here it is assembled and running. Still higher than ideal but it works, including in panic braking. I've had it on tight frost-heaved twisties in the woods and it's rock solid at 86 mph on the highway. I've tested it with a bunch of stuff loaded fore and then aft and am sure it's been well over 300 lbs. The total length with the bike is 15'9" so it fits in one parking space at the grocery store, yet I've done 180 degree turns on a 2-lane asphalt road with no issue. My panniers are not mounted in these photos, but will go on with no issue.


For the most part the trailer is relatively un-noticeable. The bike is heavy and powerful enough that there's little to notice when accelerating. On bumps and turns there can be (not always), small rear movements like those of having a small passenger move on the back seat.

Braking is the one thing to be aware of. Over the last couple of days I've had no issues, even when intentionally hard braking into ABS, but I now anticipate and stop with longer distances. Motorcycles can do about .85-1.15 G deceleration at the point of the tires losing friction (close to full ABS function), which means that in hard braking, that trailer tongue can be imparting a 300 pound FORWARD force. If in a curve with the trailer and bike not in a perfect line, that can be a really large side load while the rear tire is already dynamically unloading. There are no two ways about it, this can be dangerous. I'm currently undecided about whether to keep riding with more margin versus whether I should make the thing heavier and more complicated by installing trailer brakes. I'm doing a 2,000 mile trip over the next week and so should have an answer soon.

My buddy keeps telling me to get a car, but the irony is that he rides a Ural with a sidecar.
 

Defekticon

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That is awesome, I like the work around for raising the tongue. Nothing permanent in the event you needed to take it back to stock.

I think I've seen it done elsewhere with the SWMotech or Givi Outbacks, but it could be worth adding some brackets to the sides of the trailer to mount your panniers (or run a second set of panniers if needed).
 

Checkswrecks

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Defekticon said:
That is awesome, I like the work around for raising the tongue. Nothing permanent in the event you needed to take it back to stock.

I think I've seen it done elsewhere with the SWMotech or Givi Outbacks, but it could be worth adding some brackets to the sides of the trailer to mount your panniers (or run a second set of panniers if needed).

How much storage do you need?
???
I have two large panniers (below on old Tenere), the top box, the trailer internally has 425 liters (15 cu.ft.) beneath the folded pop-up, and could carry light stuff on the top. People have mounted kayak and bicycle racks on these things.
;)


btw - The trailer is 40" wide, so only an inch or so wider on either side than the Tenere's hand guards, which is great for judging whether I'll fit by things.
 

bvail

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Don in Lodi said:
There was a gent here for a while bvail... Bob Vail. He and I met in Cheyenne in 2000, he was towing a pop-up behind his Royal Star then. He had a pop-up in Ourey for our gathering behind a Wing. We've both been moderators on a Delphi Trailer Towing Forum. I think he's still there. Bob is the most experienced heavy puller I know personally. The general consensus used to be not to exceed half your bike's GVW when pulling a trailer without electrics. #400 would be right at the limit. Me, I'd want electrics at 400+. 400 is also putting 40-60 pounds of down force on the hitch. Another 'rule'; 10-15% of the trailer GVW at the ball. Single wheel trailers don't fit this conversation well. I tried everything I could think of to upset my loaded 300 GVW Harbor Freight trailer behind my Royal... hardly even noticed the extra load. I've known of #600 being towed.
Pulling is a great way to travel, it opens up a lot of possibilities. It also opens you up to a few more hazards, not insurmountable, but there.

Hi Don


I tried to respond to checkwrecks but didn't work even though I was logged on. Anyway to him I say an Aliner might be pushing the envelope, especially for an adventure bike. I think they were made more for heavy touring bikes like mine.


Been a while, hope you are doing well.


Your Friend, Bob Vail
 
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