The next chapter...KTM Super Adventure S
- Thread starter Dirt_Dad
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bmac
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Since it is winter and many folks are looking for something to do, or watch, here is a video of Rottweiler breaking in the latest SAS. The increase in HP is impressive.
HOW-TO BREAK-IN A NEW MOTORCYCLE - ROTTWEILER PERFORMANCE
HOW-TO BREAK-IN A NEW MOTORCYCLE - ROTTWEILER PERFORMANCE
Donk
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Well it's a start. Going to need some tweaking. Forks need to be about 10-12mm longer. Right now it doesn't hold a line mid corner the way I want it to. I want it to handle the same as my '15 S did or to be honest like it did with the R wheels but with better front end grip and feel. It's like riding a Super Duke as far as seat height right now. We'll get it right......eventually
Dirt_Dad
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I was wondering about the geometry change. Do you have thoughts on what to do for the fork length? I remember I shortened the forks on my wife's Tenere 13mm with just an adjustment in the clamps. But that direction didn't give up any clamp contact. Different when you want to go longer.
Can definitely tell the difference in front fender height. Not sure I would have noticed if I hadn't been looking for it. Overall it still looks natural.
Can definitely tell the difference in front fender height. Not sure I would have noticed if I hadn't been looking for it. Overall it still looks natural.
03A3KRH
Active Member
I thought that engine braking and engine deceleration loading was an important part of proper break-in. Maybe I missed it in the video, but is that possible to perform on a dyno?
Donk
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It looks and feels a little downhill as compared to stock when you see or sit on it in person.
Because the bike is lowered 2" already we are going to "unlower" or lengthen the forks by 1/2". We isn't actually correct, Eddie the suspension Guru at WMR is lengthening the forks, I'm just writing the check. I/we expect that 1/2" should be just a hair too long. From there we will have room to fine tune it sliding the forks up or down in the clamps. The goal is for it to handle exactly the same as a stock S. I know from past experience that it will take a lot of fine tuning, 2mm is a lot when messing with front end geometry. Past experience also tells me that it's not as easy as lowering the front of the bike the same as you lower the back. Rake and trail come into play as forks lengthen at the angle of rake. The best part is Eddie has all his notes from lowering the bike with the R wheels where the bike handled great so as he said we can always go back to that set-up. He doesn't say much but he is really busy setting up bikes for The Daytona Supercross in March and somehow that really gives me a ton of confidence.
I can't believe I took the picture in front of the bathroom and I haven't caught grief about it!
Dirt_Dad
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Interesting...I do remember how even 1mm of change up front made a noticeable difference on the Tenere, and I'm sure on everything else. Shocking when you think about it.
Good luck. Hoping it works out they way you want it. Nice to have a guru in your corner.
Good luck. Hoping it works out they way you want it. Nice to have a guru in your corner.
Dirt_Dad
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For a while yesterday I thought I had my first legitimate mechanical issue. Even found myself stuck on the entrance ramp to I-81 while heading to the dealer.
By the time the bike rolled to a stop here I fully understood i did not have a mechanical issue. It was the bike that had an owner issue. Thanks to thoughtful KTM engineering it took longer to dig out the the tool kit than it did to address the issue.
More later...
By the time the bike rolled to a stop here I fully understood i did not have a mechanical issue. It was the bike that had an owner issue. Thanks to thoughtful KTM engineering it took longer to dig out the the tool kit than it did to address the issue.
More later...
Longdog Cymru
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Ah! So come on, put us out of our misery and tell us what the “owner issue” was!
Tease!
Dirt_Dad
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Nah, if I were trying to tease i would mention the problem nearly got me splattered by a tractor trailer a few minutes earlier.
Right now heading to meet my daughter (Dirt Child) for the evening.
More tomorrow.
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Dirt_Dad
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This was it.
Feel free to skip to the bottom of this post to see the summary of the answer.
The Downside of Downsizing
My very good friend and former accident investigator, CW, has taught me much over the years. Including that all accidents are a chain of events and circumstances, interrupt any link of that chain and the accident doesn't happen. My chain for yesterday started growing in May, 2021, and the chain breaker was a entrance to a farmer's field. Chain broken, no accident...but damn, that was uncomfortable.
Yesterday was only my second ride in 2022. I suspect we all feel like our skills are degraded when we've been off the bike for an extended period of time. I know I do. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, speed shifting will bite you if you are sloppy. I realized just how rusty my skills were when I repeatedly hit neutral going from first to second gear. Everything higher than second was normal, but multiple times found I just was not sharp enough to get into second gear. I could grab the clutch and get it to 2nd, but not happening in my normal speedshifting even when concentrating on it, just not happening. Finally started thinking, "maybe it's not me." Going to need to monitor this.
Here in the land of twisty roads you learn not to hesitate when you see a tractor trailer coming and you have a safe opportunity to get out ahead of it. That safety window closes in a matter of seconds, but ride around West Virginia enough and the maneuver becomes an ordinary part of your local based skills. That ordinary maneuver becomes uncomfortable when you go for 2nd gear, hit neutral, grab the clutch, shift...still in neutral. Repeat...still neutral. I'm coasting at this point and aware the tractor trailer is not all that far behind on this 2 lane road. A quick pull into the entrance of a farmer's field provides an escape from the situation.
I'm not sure what's happening, but I know for certain the bike isn't doing what I expect. Shift into 1st and go to a church parking lot. I'm suspicious there may be a software issue related to the speed shifter. I shoot a text to Larry (GM at KTM dealership) and tell him I'm heading in and what's happening. Call DM, let her know, and turn towards the dealership. I ride using the clutch with no further events. Planning to take the quickest route to the dealership I turn on the entrance for I-81, go to grab the next gear, and the shift lever is gone. My foot hits only air. I look down and can see the lever just hanging down there. It's at that moment I realize the bike is not the problem, I am.
Fortunately KTM was smart enough to have the shift lever bolt long enough that it's still connected even when the lever has become useless. All I had to do was find the KTM supplied tool, reach into the nastiest muck from a well lubricated chain, reattach and secure the bolt/lever again. All is well...or so I thought.
I told Larry I wasn't coming. Told DM I would be returning to my ride, and I headed to the slopes.
It was a great ride. It took the bike over 16,260 miles to have the bolt vibrate loose the first time. It took less than 300 miles for it to happen the second time. On the way home, about 3 miles from the first episode, I went for a gear and felt only air. You've got to be #@! kidding. This time I knew exactly what was wrong, and had it addressed quickly. I was grateful for the snowbank next to me so I could get some of the crap off my hands.
At home and getting it all cleaned up I find Nord Lok washers in the setup. I can only assume that when I snugged up the very dirty screw/washers on the side of the road there was too much dirt to allow it to lock in again and it all came undone. I'm expecting the blue locktite and Nord Lok washers will finally do the job. Plus now I know to check.
I say the chain of events started in May of last year because that is when DM and I decided to sell the house and downsize from a 4.5 car garage property to one with only a 3 car garage. That caused me to sell the lift table and say I was going to allow someone else to work on the bikes. Normally this time of year all the bikes have taken a ride on the table and had every reachable bolt checked and tightened. That didn't happen.
I also find fault with my over estimation of just how degraded my skill had become. I was too slow to suspect an issue with the bike and just wrote it off as, wow, I'm off my game. An accurate assessment would have been better.
Always learn something on a ride. Some rides are more educational than others.
Answer: shift lever bolt backed out allowing shifter to disconnect.
Feel free to skip to the bottom of this post to see the summary of the answer.
The Downside of Downsizing
My very good friend and former accident investigator, CW, has taught me much over the years. Including that all accidents are a chain of events and circumstances, interrupt any link of that chain and the accident doesn't happen. My chain for yesterday started growing in May, 2021, and the chain breaker was a entrance to a farmer's field. Chain broken, no accident...but damn, that was uncomfortable.
Yesterday was only my second ride in 2022. I suspect we all feel like our skills are degraded when we've been off the bike for an extended period of time. I know I do. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, speed shifting will bite you if you are sloppy. I realized just how rusty my skills were when I repeatedly hit neutral going from first to second gear. Everything higher than second was normal, but multiple times found I just was not sharp enough to get into second gear. I could grab the clutch and get it to 2nd, but not happening in my normal speedshifting even when concentrating on it, just not happening. Finally started thinking, "maybe it's not me." Going to need to monitor this.
Here in the land of twisty roads you learn not to hesitate when you see a tractor trailer coming and you have a safe opportunity to get out ahead of it. That safety window closes in a matter of seconds, but ride around West Virginia enough and the maneuver becomes an ordinary part of your local based skills. That ordinary maneuver becomes uncomfortable when you go for 2nd gear, hit neutral, grab the clutch, shift...still in neutral. Repeat...still neutral. I'm coasting at this point and aware the tractor trailer is not all that far behind on this 2 lane road. A quick pull into the entrance of a farmer's field provides an escape from the situation.
I'm not sure what's happening, but I know for certain the bike isn't doing what I expect. Shift into 1st and go to a church parking lot. I'm suspicious there may be a software issue related to the speed shifter. I shoot a text to Larry (GM at KTM dealership) and tell him I'm heading in and what's happening. Call DM, let her know, and turn towards the dealership. I ride using the clutch with no further events. Planning to take the quickest route to the dealership I turn on the entrance for I-81, go to grab the next gear, and the shift lever is gone. My foot hits only air. I look down and can see the lever just hanging down there. It's at that moment I realize the bike is not the problem, I am.
Fortunately KTM was smart enough to have the shift lever bolt long enough that it's still connected even when the lever has become useless. All I had to do was find the KTM supplied tool, reach into the nastiest muck from a well lubricated chain, reattach and secure the bolt/lever again. All is well...or so I thought.
I told Larry I wasn't coming. Told DM I would be returning to my ride, and I headed to the slopes.
It was a great ride. It took the bike over 16,260 miles to have the bolt vibrate loose the first time. It took less than 300 miles for it to happen the second time. On the way home, about 3 miles from the first episode, I went for a gear and felt only air. You've got to be #@! kidding. This time I knew exactly what was wrong, and had it addressed quickly. I was grateful for the snowbank next to me so I could get some of the crap off my hands.
At home and getting it all cleaned up I find Nord Lok washers in the setup. I can only assume that when I snugged up the very dirty screw/washers on the side of the road there was too much dirt to allow it to lock in again and it all came undone. I'm expecting the blue locktite and Nord Lok washers will finally do the job. Plus now I know to check.
I say the chain of events started in May of last year because that is when DM and I decided to sell the house and downsize from a 4.5 car garage property to one with only a 3 car garage. That caused me to sell the lift table and say I was going to allow someone else to work on the bikes. Normally this time of year all the bikes have taken a ride on the table and had every reachable bolt checked and tightened. That didn't happen.
I also find fault with my over estimation of just how degraded my skill had become. I was too slow to suspect an issue with the bike and just wrote it off as, wow, I'm off my game. An accurate assessment would have been better.
Always learn something on a ride. Some rides are more educational than others.
Answer: shift lever bolt backed out allowing shifter to disconnect.
Last edited:
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[QUOTE="Dirt_Dad, post: 470955, member: 80".Answer: shift lever bolt backed out allowing shifter to disconnect.
[/QUOTE]
Glad you were able to roadside repair it. With my luck the shift lever would fall off, get run over by the truck, and spat into the weeds never to be seen again.
And Murphy’s Law states that once something works loose once, the time for it to loosen again decreases exponentially.
[/QUOTE]
Glad you were able to roadside repair it. With my luck the shift lever would fall off, get run over by the truck, and spat into the weeds never to be seen again.
And Murphy’s Law states that once something works loose once, the time for it to loosen again decreases exponentially.
Great outcome.
Thanks for sharing and we (Jackie & I) are looking forward to a warm day to meet up with you two.
Thanks for sharing and we (Jackie & I) are looking forward to a warm day to meet up with you two.
Dirt_Dad
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I've got to setup an appointment to take the BMW out your way. Last service before the warranty is up on that bike. I'll let you know when I get that scheduled. Probably rent a bike if you're available.
Donk
Well-Known Member
Hmm, maybe that's something I need to check on my bike. Not an issue I've heard tell of before but certainly warrants inspection.
Dirt_Dad
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Service manual says to use locktite. Mine from the factory didn't have any. Worth checking.
Donk
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Thanks, will do that.
Dirt_Dad
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If someone claimed my SAS was supernatural, regardless of my thoughts of that realm, I'd be hard-pressed to disagree. This bike holds some power over me.
I left late yesterday for a short ride. 240 miles and 5+ hours into this quick ride I'm getting close to home. I look at the speedo after the bike touches down from the most recent 4th gear roll-on wheelie and wonder, 'what road can I take next to make this ride just a little longer?' Why does this ride have to end?
Been a while since I've done a mileage check. Hit this mark near the start of yesterday's ride.
17K miles in just under 20 months is hardly an impressive number around here. But for someone who rides just one day a weekend the vast majority of the year, it's not a terrible number. It is enough seat time to say, 'this is my bike', I understand it, what it does well for me, and where it's lacking.
First, all the positive things mentioned over the pages of this thread, are all still hold true. My anticipation for every ride is just as strong as it has ever been on this bike. The number of times I've thought I'd like to take out my 690 Enduro, but realize that will take time from riding the SAS, and I just don't want to miss a SAS ride. The 690 continues to rest another week.
I'm going try to identify conclusions not mentioned here before. In no particular order...
-) I've been a Yamaha fan all my life. I've owned more XT's than any other bike...by far. I judge reliability by my Yamaha (and other Japanese) bike experiences, which have all been positive. After 17K miles on the SAS, my preconceived concerns about KTM have been 100% obliterated. I had more recalls on my Teneres than my KTM (0).
Every mechanical issue in 17K miles has been related to a bolt backing out. The first of these two occurrences appeared around 12K miles. The water pump drain bolt was an annoyance while on a trip, and the shift lever retaining bolt was baffling, but a bolt on a engine eventually vibrating loose is hardly unique to any manufacturer. I know I've routinely snugged up bolts here and there on all motorcycle I've ever owned for any amount of time. As for KTM, the dealer said they've never heard of the water pump backing out. They flushed my cooling system, replaced the coolant, lock-tited the bolt and covered it all under warranty.
-) There is some kind of psychology I don't fully understand about riding the SAS. Time and time and time again, I find I ride the SAS slower than I think I'm riding it. My point of reference is my old FJR, which required me to ride so very fast in the corners to get any excitement from the bike. I didn't want to ride that fast, and quickly sold the FJR. I love the rush of going from 0 to x8 MPH in the blink of an eye as you blast through the speed shifter. After that kick, I'm one who settles close to the speed limit when the road is straight. Takes zero skill to ride fast in a straight line. When the straight ends, everything comes down to judgement and whatever skills I've managed to acquire. If there is no one ahead of me, I almost always enjoy, and have high satisfaction with my run through the twisties. Early in my SAS ownership days I was surprised when I'd look down and realize I wasn't going as fast as I perceived. Now I just accept that is what's happening. My goal has never been high speed. The goal is always high satisfaction with the ride. Somehow the SAS delivers extraordinary enjoyment without demanding extraordinary speed.
-) Off road, the primary limitation of the SAS is the rubber, not the metal. Yes, I'm ignoring the elephant in the room of the cast wheels. Unless it's muddy or in wet grass, I've rarely given any thought to difference of 50/50 tires vs any other tire as it pertains to traction. I had the difference rammed home a few weeks ago when a mildly stony road put a nice big hole in the rear tire. Even though I had installed that tire myself I was still surprised to see how thin that 90/10 tire was at the end of the wear bars. A good reminder.
Putting anything more than an 80/20 on the SAS scares me. I'm hardly some great road rider, but I know how hard I'm twisting my wrist coming out of the apex of corner (that stuff I mentioned about being slow applies to the first 3/4 of a curve. it may not apply to the last 1/4). Could I exceed the limits of an 80/20 tire...? Probably not, but my thrill on the SAS comes from twisties, and excessive acceleration. I'm not willing to sacrifice that enjoyment for better dirt performance. This results in me doing far less dirt riding with the SAS than the Tenere, which always wore E07 Dakars. And what dirt I do ride is much more smooth gravel type roads on newish rubber, not worn rubber.
By the way, on the topic of tires, I finally wore out one of the Dunlop TrailSmart tires I bought for $100 a set (thanks, BMAC). Safe to say this front is done.
Completely spent at 8,460 miles. All the others Dunlops were replaced before launching on a trip, or the one rear that was killed by a stone at 6,782 mile (it was down to the bars as well). The very last tire of those 3 sets will go on to replace this front. Not sure what I'll do going forward. The TrailSmart have been very good at handling whatever I've thrown at them. Wet, dry, high acceleration straight and out of a corner, never once given me concern.
-) I'm so glad I got over my personal objection to having a chain driven, long distance bike. That objection would have eliminated the SAS from my garage. After installing the auto chain oiler the most I ever do is eyeball the sag of the chain. Not sagging too much, don't care about anything else. Yes, the fling is messy. So be it. On rare occasion I will put the bike on the center stand, grab some rags in box, wipe it off and spray it with lube. Do I have any idea what the condition is, or how the sprockets look....nope. Don't care. I asked my KTM dealer how long chains are lasting. They (and the BMW dealer) tell me 10K to and well cared for chain going low 20s. Is that true, maybe, maybe not...don't care. Both our BMW and KTM are in the 17K mileage reading, both go to the dealer for service in the next few weeks, both are getting new chains and sprockets. I don't have any interest in dealing with it. Just give me new ones and I'll continue not thinking about it once the initial stretch is completed. Whatever dislike I have of chains, it is far, far outweighed by having bikes that take riding to a whole new level.
-) At the gas station, people talk to you differently on a KTM. The other day some kid was filling his car. He walked over to me, said 'that KTM F'ing Rocks.' He walked back to his car, never looked at the bike again, and that was that. No one ever asks what kind of bike is that. Those who say something have some preconcieived idea of what the orange bike means on a performance level, or they are already KTM owners. It's different from what I heard on a Tenere.
Bike is going in for its first valve check next week. It is the second scheduled service for the bike. 18K vs 23K for the Tenere does give the Tenere the edge there. But it's really not been a concern for me. I've never lifted the tank on this bike, and I'm okay with that.
I left late yesterday for a short ride. 240 miles and 5+ hours into this quick ride I'm getting close to home. I look at the speedo after the bike touches down from the most recent 4th gear roll-on wheelie and wonder, 'what road can I take next to make this ride just a little longer?' Why does this ride have to end?
Been a while since I've done a mileage check. Hit this mark near the start of yesterday's ride.
17K miles in just under 20 months is hardly an impressive number around here. But for someone who rides just one day a weekend the vast majority of the year, it's not a terrible number. It is enough seat time to say, 'this is my bike', I understand it, what it does well for me, and where it's lacking.
First, all the positive things mentioned over the pages of this thread, are all still hold true. My anticipation for every ride is just as strong as it has ever been on this bike. The number of times I've thought I'd like to take out my 690 Enduro, but realize that will take time from riding the SAS, and I just don't want to miss a SAS ride. The 690 continues to rest another week.
I'm going try to identify conclusions not mentioned here before. In no particular order...
-) I've been a Yamaha fan all my life. I've owned more XT's than any other bike...by far. I judge reliability by my Yamaha (and other Japanese) bike experiences, which have all been positive. After 17K miles on the SAS, my preconceived concerns about KTM have been 100% obliterated. I had more recalls on my Teneres than my KTM (0).
Every mechanical issue in 17K miles has been related to a bolt backing out. The first of these two occurrences appeared around 12K miles. The water pump drain bolt was an annoyance while on a trip, and the shift lever retaining bolt was baffling, but a bolt on a engine eventually vibrating loose is hardly unique to any manufacturer. I know I've routinely snugged up bolts here and there on all motorcycle I've ever owned for any amount of time. As for KTM, the dealer said they've never heard of the water pump backing out. They flushed my cooling system, replaced the coolant, lock-tited the bolt and covered it all under warranty.
-) There is some kind of psychology I don't fully understand about riding the SAS. Time and time and time again, I find I ride the SAS slower than I think I'm riding it. My point of reference is my old FJR, which required me to ride so very fast in the corners to get any excitement from the bike. I didn't want to ride that fast, and quickly sold the FJR. I love the rush of going from 0 to x8 MPH in the blink of an eye as you blast through the speed shifter. After that kick, I'm one who settles close to the speed limit when the road is straight. Takes zero skill to ride fast in a straight line. When the straight ends, everything comes down to judgement and whatever skills I've managed to acquire. If there is no one ahead of me, I almost always enjoy, and have high satisfaction with my run through the twisties. Early in my SAS ownership days I was surprised when I'd look down and realize I wasn't going as fast as I perceived. Now I just accept that is what's happening. My goal has never been high speed. The goal is always high satisfaction with the ride. Somehow the SAS delivers extraordinary enjoyment without demanding extraordinary speed.
-) Off road, the primary limitation of the SAS is the rubber, not the metal. Yes, I'm ignoring the elephant in the room of the cast wheels. Unless it's muddy or in wet grass, I've rarely given any thought to difference of 50/50 tires vs any other tire as it pertains to traction. I had the difference rammed home a few weeks ago when a mildly stony road put a nice big hole in the rear tire. Even though I had installed that tire myself I was still surprised to see how thin that 90/10 tire was at the end of the wear bars. A good reminder.
Putting anything more than an 80/20 on the SAS scares me. I'm hardly some great road rider, but I know how hard I'm twisting my wrist coming out of the apex of corner (that stuff I mentioned about being slow applies to the first 3/4 of a curve. it may not apply to the last 1/4). Could I exceed the limits of an 80/20 tire...? Probably not, but my thrill on the SAS comes from twisties, and excessive acceleration. I'm not willing to sacrifice that enjoyment for better dirt performance. This results in me doing far less dirt riding with the SAS than the Tenere, which always wore E07 Dakars. And what dirt I do ride is much more smooth gravel type roads on newish rubber, not worn rubber.
By the way, on the topic of tires, I finally wore out one of the Dunlop TrailSmart tires I bought for $100 a set (thanks, BMAC). Safe to say this front is done.
Completely spent at 8,460 miles. All the others Dunlops were replaced before launching on a trip, or the one rear that was killed by a stone at 6,782 mile (it was down to the bars as well). The very last tire of those 3 sets will go on to replace this front. Not sure what I'll do going forward. The TrailSmart have been very good at handling whatever I've thrown at them. Wet, dry, high acceleration straight and out of a corner, never once given me concern.
-) I'm so glad I got over my personal objection to having a chain driven, long distance bike. That objection would have eliminated the SAS from my garage. After installing the auto chain oiler the most I ever do is eyeball the sag of the chain. Not sagging too much, don't care about anything else. Yes, the fling is messy. So be it. On rare occasion I will put the bike on the center stand, grab some rags in box, wipe it off and spray it with lube. Do I have any idea what the condition is, or how the sprockets look....nope. Don't care. I asked my KTM dealer how long chains are lasting. They (and the BMW dealer) tell me 10K to and well cared for chain going low 20s. Is that true, maybe, maybe not...don't care. Both our BMW and KTM are in the 17K mileage reading, both go to the dealer for service in the next few weeks, both are getting new chains and sprockets. I don't have any interest in dealing with it. Just give me new ones and I'll continue not thinking about it once the initial stretch is completed. Whatever dislike I have of chains, it is far, far outweighed by having bikes that take riding to a whole new level.
-) At the gas station, people talk to you differently on a KTM. The other day some kid was filling his car. He walked over to me, said 'that KTM F'ing Rocks.' He walked back to his car, never looked at the bike again, and that was that. No one ever asks what kind of bike is that. Those who say something have some preconcieived idea of what the orange bike means on a performance level, or they are already KTM owners. It's different from what I heard on a Tenere.
Bike is going in for its first valve check next week. It is the second scheduled service for the bike. 18K vs 23K for the Tenere does give the Tenere the edge there. But it's really not been a concern for me. I've never lifted the tank on this bike, and I'm okay with that.