Suspension adjustment

cbreakin

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

bignick1972 said:
Is that for more off road or for pure high speed road?
I believe this set-up improves both on and off road handling characteristics. I can personally vouch for the bikes improved handling in the canyons.
 

bignick1972

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

cbreakin said:
I believe this set-up improves both on and off road handling characteristics. I can personally vouch for the bikes improved handling in the canyons.
Ok .
I would definitely try.
Front compression 6 clicks from "a" is standard?
 

Mzee

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

yesterday I had the time to make the suspension adjustments and wow. I notice that it geared towards being stiffer. Thank you everyone for the input but particularly those took the trouble to spell it out step by step for us who are none technically and mechanically oriented.
 

bignick1972

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Mzee said:
yesterday I had the time to make the suspension adjustments and wow. I notice that it geared towards being stiffer. Thank you everyone for the input but particularly those took the trouble to spell it out step by step for us who are none technically and mechanically oriented.
Did you adjust all the setting to" 6" clicks?
 

Rasher

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

I have dropped my forks through the yokes about 8mm which made a very noticeable improvement to steering.

I also have a Wilburs shock, with the OE shock and pre-load cranked up an extra couple of lines the steering was also improved, but the Wilburs allows me to keep a shade more sag, drop the forks and still have good ground clearance, I think the Wilburs compresses less in the turns, but also feels a lot more compliant on the bumps.

I also have linear springs in my forks which improved the ride quality.

I would recommend anyone to experiment a bit, just find a good loop of varied terrain you typically ride on, note stock settings, adjust, try, repeat - I think most people will find an improved "base setting" quite quickly, I only ride on pavement (with the occasional relatively smooth dirt / gravel track) so can get away with running the same settings all of the time.
 

Bushyar15

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

I started at 6 clicks with the thought I'd have to adjust it later. But it seems to be working for me.


Rather than add another "reply" I'll just add some additional notes here….

Remember suspension settings are really "personal", as rider weight, load carried, tires used, where you ride, what type of riding you do ultimately determines how to set your suspension

While I don't want to get too deep into intricacies of motorcycle suspension, I'd suggest to anyone to know/remember the function of each component of your suspension. Meaning what the Spring or preload is used for, compression and rebound damping settings as well. They all have a specific function and that function doesn't change. One thing I see people do and I'm guilty as I did it as noted in my first post is use the Preload to "soften" the ride.. Ummm no…

We also have to remember what the primary purpose of suspension is, which is to keep the tires in contact with the ground. Comfort is really secondary. One could say though that if your suspension is properly set-up (spring, valving, adjusted) it is comfortable.. Which I find to be true. If you are super-slabbing it looking for a "softer" ride, or tearing it up on the off-road and want a stiffer suspension, that really becomes a function of spring rates and valving…

Also remember your suspension isn't going to handle every situation. When I raced I remember one time trying to adjust my suspension for one particularly bad bump on the track. I spent lots of track time trying to "tune" that feature of the track out. When I got it to handle that bump, it didn't handle the bumps on the other 99% of the track. Talked to the track-side suspension support guy who told me to tune for the majority of the track and not that "ONE" feature. Just "ride" around it (meaning not to actually ride around it, but to deal with it).

Some may say I'm over-simplyfing suspension. Yeah, I am. I can go into more detail, but it gets more confusing. IMO, the basics will get you 90% of the way there…


bignick1972 said:
Did you adjust all the setting to" 6" clicks?
 

bignick1972

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Today I tried ;6 clicks front rebound 6 click front compression and only 8 click rear rebound damping.
Felt comfortable cruising@ 85mph.
What I felt is that the bike was sitting too much on 1st 2nd and 3rd . Not sure what could happen if adding additional 2 clicks
Will bike sit more under acceleration?
 

Bushyar15

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Okay so now we are starting to get into the nuts and bolts. This is when we go from the 10,000 ft level to about 100 ft level when discussing suspension.

The answer becomes more nebulous and depends on a lot more variables.

A few questions. When you say "sitting too much on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd" do you mean its squatting under acceleration?

When you say "adding additional 2 clicks" do you mean in the softer or firmer direction?



bignick1972 said:
Today I tried ;6 clicks front rebound 6 click front compression and only 8 click rear rebound damping.
Felt comfortable cruising@ 85mph.
What I felt is that the bike was sitting too much on 1st 2nd and 3rd . Not sure what could happen if adding additional 2 clicks
Will bike sit more under acceleration?
 

JMLUSA1

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Very Interesting Topic. Great discussion. Ill add to it when I figure or decide which order to try all t&is in. Gut / Racer Instinct is NOT to change all at once!
 

Bushyar15

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Agreed, I will add one caveat to that;

You (third person) need a good starting point. IMO, Proper Sag (or as close as you can get to it) should be that starting point. Along with making sure all the other settings are even or equal regardless of number of clicks in or out. Unless the shop worked with you to measure/set Sag, chances are good its not right...

Every bike I've owned with the exception of this one, first thing I did was set the Sag, and verify/put all the settings, compression and damping in the "middle" position and used that as my starting point. From there I would change things, incrementally one at a time as I felt was needed.


JMLUSA1 said:
Very Interesting Topic. Great discussion. Ill add to it when I figure or decide which order to try all t&is in. Gut / Racer Instinct is NOT to change all at once!
 

bignick1972

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Bushyar15 said:
Okay so now we are starting to get into the nuts and bolts. This is when we go from the 10,000 ft level to about 100 ft level when discussing suspension.

The answer becomes more nebulous and depends on a lot more variables.

A few questions. When you say "sitting too much on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd" do you mean its squatting under acceleration?

When you say "adding additional 2 clicks" do you mean in the softer or firmer direction?
Yes. I mean squatting. I m 8 click from" a" and if i will 2 more click in" a" direction (6 click total from "a") Will bike squat more under acceleration?
Sorry my limited vocabulary, I live in NY but I m from Italy.
Thanks
 

Bushyar15

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

When it comes to a bike squatting there are so many variables and reasons. The first question though, is this causing a handling issue?

Squatting can be caused by weight shift to the rear of the bike due to hard acceleration, amount of traction, and improperly set-up suspension. Since the stock shock is very limited in its adjustability, no compression damping and a too soft spring, with questionable rebound damping valving. Its hard to get your bike set-up correctly…

Squatting is usually an issue when cornering and hitting bumps causing the suspension to pack down. Thus not allowing the bike to absorb any other bumps causing handling issues. Which is usually a symptom of an over-damped rebound setting. And thats the "simple" answer. To figure it out you also need to determine if its an issue of your compression setting being under-damped… Yeah it gets complicated.

Squatting while taking off or accelerating in a straight-line shouldn't be an issue… again, if your shock's preload is set correctly… I know I didn't really give you and answer, but what you are asking would take a lot of explaining..


bignick1972 said:
Yes. I mean squatting. I m 8 click from" a" and if i will 2 more click in" a" direction (6 click total from "a") Will bike squat more under acceleration?
Sorry my limited vocabulary, I live in NY but I m from Italy.
Thanks
 

bignick1972

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Bushyar15 said:
When it comes to a bike squatting there are so many variables and reasons. The first question though, is this causing a handling issue?

Squatting can be caused by weight shift to the rear of the bike due to hard acceleration, amount of traction, and improperly set-up suspension. Since the stock shock is very limited in its adjustability, no compression damping and a too soft spring, with questionable rebound damping valving. Its hard to get your bike set-up correctly…

Squatting is usually an issue when cornering and hitting bumps causing the suspension to pack down. Thus not allowing the bike to absorb any other bumps causing handling issues. Which is usually a symptom of an over-damped rebound setting. And thats the "simple" answer. To figure it out you also need to determine if its an issue of your compression setting being under-damped… Yeah it gets complicated.

Squatting while taking off or accelerating in a straight-line shouldn't be an issue… again, if your shock's preload is set correctly… I know I didn't really give you and answer, but what you are asking would take a lot of explaining..
No handling issues.
I just nor feel comfortable at 85mph speed.
Bike is too shaky.
And I would like to find a suspension setting that keep bike more firm at that speed.
 

Mzee

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Bushyar15 said:
Those settings will definitely be an improvement over stock, even on-road. IMO, by setting the preload (Sag) properly, (well as close as you can given the rear preload doesn't offer enough preolad for most, even on "hard"). It will make corner "turn-in" more responsive since the bike steering angle will be closer to what it should be.

Just riding to the forest/fire roads, handling was improved. Some of getting to the mountains involves the freeway and curvy canyon roads. I did not notice any harshness on the freeway nor any bad behavior in the canyons...

Now when it comes to adjusting compression and rebound settings this is the general rule of thumb I've always followed whether it be my road going Ducati or my road-racing Aprilia; You set the compression damping as soft as you can without bottoming the fork or shock. You set the rebound as soft as you can without "topping" out your shock or forks. Since they are tied together to make a "system", it may take some going back and forth so that it works that way.

Again, thats general rule of thumb I used. Of course when I raced I'd make adjustments depending on the track conditions. But we're not talking racing...

Again, the above is my experience, I'm sure others will have differing opinions and schools of thought. I'm not saying mine is gospel, its what I use.... YMMV

I am very happy with the new adjustment. I took scorpion out yesterday and it definitely feels different. I used to go over a ridge on the road and it felt like I was sitting on a tractor trailer. Now there is softness and also the bike feels well planted on the road. ::025::
 

JMLUSA1

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

I may need to Shim, however I wonder if a heavier progressively wound spring would be better than shimmering the allready too soft spring. Plus, what are thoughts on Revalving (RideTech Gold) forks?
 

JMLUSA1

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

bignick1972 said:
No handling issues.
I just nor feel comfortable at 85mph speed.
Bike is too shaky.
And I would like to find a suspension setting that keep bike more firm at that speed.

JMLUSA1 said:
I may need to Shim the rear spring, however I wonder if a heavier progressively wound spring would be better than shimmering the allready too soft spring. Plus up front, what are thoughts on Revalving (RideTech Gold) forks?
 

Bushyar15

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

So this is where we go beyond basics...

You need to decide what you are looking for in your ride. Do you want high-speed stability at the expense of low speed handling? There are things you can do to adjust the geometry/suspension on your bike so it handles better at 85 mph. There is also riding position to put more weight on the front wheel, a shorter windscreen… But its all about what you want from your bike and what are you willing to trade to get it...

When it comes to the rear shock, anything you do to it, short of adjusting it becomes a "work-around" The shock should work as a single unified unit... Proper spring rate, with proper valving is the correct way to go about it. I'm not saying don't get a spacer, or don't get a spring. I'm saying its a stop-gap and not a "complete" solution. I'm going opt for a spacer and eibach spring till I can afford an Ohlins..

I believe a spacer which would allow you to add more preoload is probably the least expensive (cost is subjective) solution, but now you've got a spring thats under alot more tension and the valving won't be correct (damping). A collar and a spring are the next best solution. So that the spring isn't so heavily loaded to get the sag you need.

Most people go with a single rate spring...




 

Tenerefeller

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Bike handles great now! Who knew it could be this good, like not using a rubber for the first time I'm hooked
 

bignick1972

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

Bushyar15 said:
So this is where we go beyond basics...

You need to decide what you are looking for in your ride. Do you want high-speed stability at the expense of low speed handling? There are things you can do to adjust the geometry/suspension on your bike so it handles better at 85 mph. There is also riding position to put more weight on the front wheel, a shorter windscreen… But its all about what you want from your bike and what are you willing to trade to get it...

When it comes to the rear shock, anything you do to it, short of adjusting it becomes a "work-around" The shock should work as a single unified unit... Proper spring rate, with proper valving is the correct way to go about it. I'm not saying don't get a spacer, or don't get a spring. I'm saying its a stop-gap and not a "complete" solution. I'm going opt for a spacer and eibach spring till I can afford an Ohlins..

I believe a spacer which would allow you to add more preoload is probably the least expensive (cost is subjective) solution, but now you've got a spring thats under alot more tension and the valving won't be correct (damping). A collar and a spring are the next best solution. So that the spring isn't so heavily loaded to get the sag you need.

Most people go with a single rate spring...
Thanks
 

shrekonwheels

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Re: Do Yourself a Favor and Adjust Your Suspension.

I know I gotta Adjust mine damn it, Maybe I will take a run over to the Neighboring town and corner Lance Holst and make him do it damn it.

He did my ZX6r and OMFG that thing went form handling good to friggin amazing.
 
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