Super Tenere Break In

roadlizard

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Haven't figured out how to search the message board for past posts so I hope I'm not too vilified for this post. Although I have owned numerous motorcycles the S10 (picking it up Friday at D&H Cycles) will be my first "NEW" bike. Have read several articles on recommended break in procedures. Any one else followed Motoman, motorcycleinfo.calsci.com//NewBike.html or other "ride it hard" type break in schedules and ignored the Yamaha recommended break in protocol?

Thanks.
 

rem

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roadlizard said:
Haven't figured out how to search the message board for past posts so I hope I'm not too vilified for this post.

Bad Lizard ... bad Lizard. KIDDING. :)) :)) That's a more than reasonable question. I've read all that and my less than knowledgeable response is ... I dunno. I tend to follow the manufacturer's recommended break in procedure. This other guy sort of makes sense, but .... I dunno. I'm sure someone will jump in here and help you out. There are some folks on the Forum with a lot of knowledge and experience. Good luck with it. If you achieve any gargantuan revelations, please let us know. R ::26::
 

tc9988

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roadlizard said:
Haven't figured out how to search the message board for past posts so I hope I'm not too vilified for this post. Although I have owned numerous motorcycles the S10 (picking it up Friday at D&H Cycles) will be my first "NEW" bike. Have read several articles on recommended break in procedures. Any one else followed Motoman, motorcycleinfo.calsci.com//NewBike.html or other "ride it hard" type break in schedules and ignored the Yamaha recommended break in protocol?

Thanks.
I will use the Motoman/Calsci recommendations. The owners manual recommends:

1. no excessive load for 1000 miles * I interpret this to mean not to lug the engine*
2. avoid prolonged operation above 3900 rpm for the 1st 600 miles * I interpret this to mean no freeway cruising. Calsci recommends not exceeding 2/3 redline which is 5200 rpm and this is only for short bursts, *
3.keep the engine speed out of the red zone.

You will note the Motoman/Calsci recommendations do not in any way contravene the owners manual recommendations
 

HoebSTer

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I like motorman method, and parts of Yamaha method of not stayin in one rpm for long periods. As you rev upwards, allow the engine to rev down as an engine compression brake.
 

markjenn

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Lots of opinions, few hard facts or data. As long as you stay away from extremes - either running the engine excessively hard or completely babying it - I don't think it makes much difference.

My personal observation about the S10 and Yamaha's recommendations for this bike is that the sustained 3900 RPM limit seems low, especially if you adhere to it religiously. To my senses, the S10 engine feels like its lugging at anything less than about 3K RPM and doesn't seem terribly happy taking full throttle until about 3.5K. So if you really try and keep it under 3900 you're working with an awfully narrow power band and engines like to see a nice range of RPMs during break in. Rather than baby it or lug the engine, I think it is better to relax a little about this limit, and certainly don't consider it a hard limit.

There is nothing wrong with Motoman per se, but the pitch is way too evangelical for my tastes and I don't see a supported engineering analysis, just a lot of proclamations based on scanty anecdotal evidence. It looks and reads like a web page pitching fuel magnets. But the idea that you do need considerable load/throttle to seat rings and should avoid idling and traffic during break in is certainly sound.

To my mind, a perfect break-in scenario would be 500 miles of up-down hilly terrain using a wide variety of throttle and RPMs, never sustaining very high power for an extended period. Most riders can come close to this if they just are a little careful when/where they ride for the first few days. But if you can't, I wouldn't sweat it - engines seem to do fine with all kinds of different break-ins regimens. I have a friend who rented a new, zero-mile Busa in Europe and he had the thing at 280+ kph within ten minutes of signing the paperwork. At the end of the tour, the bike ran fine.

- Mark
 

Tremor38

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markjenn said:
To my mind, a perfect break-in scenario would be 500 miles of up-down hilly terrain using a wide variety of throttle and RPMs, never sustaining very high power for an extended period.

- Mark
+1. Also, the RPM limit in the manual isn't brick wall. The manual simply says to "avoid prolonged operation" above that value.
 

markjenn

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Tremor38 said:
+1. Also, the RPM limit in the manual isn't brick wall. The manual simply says to "avoid prolonged operation" above that value.
The problem is that Yamaha (nor anyone) defines what is "prolonged". Is it > 1 sec. >10 sec? > min? > hour? And if 10 sec of 1000 rpm above the limit is Okay, then is 100 sec of 100 rpm over the same? Without better definition, I'm not sure how useful "avoid prolonged operation" is as a guideline.

A good engineering analysis I read a few years back (wish I had a specific reference) explained that the RPM limits are put in not because high RPM is necessarily harmful to a new engine, but that it is a blunt tool the mfgs use to keep the new engine from being run for a sustained period at a power setting that would cause localized overheating. The concept is that until an engine establishes working clearances, there are localized areas in an engine where clearances are tight - break in is the process where these "hot spots" wear and establish proper working clearances. If you run a new engine at sustained high power, these areas are prone to excessive wear and localized overheating.

You avoid this by not running the engine at sustained high power. And the easiest way for the mfg to limit power is simply to limit RPM. An S10, if kept below 3900 RPM, can never develop more than about 60% of its peak power. Its a very clumsy way of Yamaha saying not to run the engine at more than 60% of peak power for a sustained period during the first 600 miles - it keeps riders from getting their new bikes and immediately heading for the freeway to twist the wire tight and see what she'll do.

But if you know the intent, then you know that you can use a wide variety of RPMs and throttle settings, just making sure you don't push the engine for a long time at high power. This strikes me as the smarter way to adhere to the spirit of what Yamaha's engineers want you do to, rather than the letter of the OM. And as I said before, 3900 is just feels to me like the engine is too close to lugging and I'd rather err on the side of a little more RPM than lug the engine.

- Mark
 

gerry2085

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I have had many new bikes over the years and agree with the comments which have already been made . I think as a rider you know when you may for lack of a better phrase "be abusing your machine". I think we all agree that abuse is what is to be avoided when running in the machine. Ie don't over rev or overload at low revs. My thoughts are, if it feels right then it generaly is, Ive never had a problem following that rule of thumb.
 

Tremor38

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markjenn said:
The problem is that Yamaha (nor anyone) defines what is "prolonged". Is it > 1 sec. >10 sec? > min? > hour? And if 10 sec of 1000 rpm above the limit is Okay, then is 100 sec of 100 rpm over the same? Without better definition, I'm not sure how useful "avoid prolonged operation" is as a guideline.

A good engineering analysis I read a few years back (wish I had a specific reference) explained that the RPM limits are put in not because high RPM is necessarily harmful to a new engine, but that it is a blunt tool the mfgs use to keep the new engine from being run for a sustained period at a power setting that would cause localized overheating. The concept is that until an engine establishes working clearances, there are localized areas in an engine where clearances are tight - break in is the process where these "hot spots" wear and establish proper working clearances. If you run a new engine at sustained high power, these areas are prone to excessive wear and localized overheating.

You avoid this by not running the engine at sustained high power. And the easiest way for the mfg to limit power is simply to limit RPM. An S10, if kept below 3900 RPM, can never develop more than about 60% of its peak power. Its a very clumsy way of Yamaha saying not to run the engine at more than 60% of peak power for a sustained period during the first 600 miles - it keeps riders from getting their new bikes and immediately heading for the freeway to twist the wire tight and see what she'll do.

But if you know the intent, then you know that you can use a wide variety of RPMs and throttle settings, just making sure you don't push the engine for a long time at high power. This strikes me as the smarter way to adhere to the spirit of what Yamaha's engineers want you do to, rather than the letter of the OM. And as I said before, 3900 is just feels to me like the engine is too close to lugging and I'd rather err on the side of a little more RPM than lug the engine.

- Mark
Yes, I agree, and as you evidently understand, it's even more diffcult to communicate, quantify or measure what amount 'power' to not exceed for prolonged periods ;) . I like the guidance one of my dealers here in Japan uses. He says he isn't very worried about what RPM his newly sold machines were are running at, but advises to not use very large, super-abrupt acceleration/deceleration. That, again, is up to interpretation, and he generally didn't say that to inexperienced riders.
 

Blue_eyes

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Here is a very interesting scientific article regarding breaking in an engine, unfortunately for most of you it is in German: http://www.heise.de/tr/artikel/Wie-geschmiert-1369325.html

In essence it states that research has proven that it is much better to not break-in a modern engine gently, but ride it like you normally would. Warm it up and ride it through the entire rev range.

Motoman's method is like that, it is based on the same principles.
 

TierHawg

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Just ride it!

::021::​
 

s-flow

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Generally, follow the owners manual and you will be fine.. you really will be fine!

Thing for me is, if I go straight against Yamahas recommendetions, if something "sublime" happens. Like if the bike was
drinking 0,2 L oil per 1000 KM (as a Swedish testbike that had a been through hard tests did), I would blame myself for the
break-in procedure (no matter if thats the reason).

Guess we are different folks but piece of mind is very important for me personally. :)

By the way, Yamaha did not think that above mentined oil usage was to consider as a problem and they had never heard of any other case.
 

Mittenduck

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The main point of the break in is to seat the rings to cylinder wall. Little bits of metal will get scraped off until the seal is close to perfect. To a lesser extent this will also happen in the bottom end and the transmission. It is essential to do this right away. Race teams break in their engines on a dyno at high power settings, but they never let them get too hot. If the combustion pressure is too low during the break in, the rings will never seat correctly. The result will be blow by during the life of the engine. You will know this has happened if the oil gets dirty quickly after an oil change. That engine will never deliver best power and will suffer a shortened service life. In addition, dirty oil full of combustion by-products will be lubricating the transmission and clutch. Does that sound like a good thing?

The first 30 miles are critical. Let the engine warm up, then take it up to 70%-80% power (5,500-6,500) in 1st gear and hold it there for 5-10 seconds. Then bring it back down to just above idle for 20-30 seconds. Monitor the engine temperature. Now repeat the process in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. Use 5th and 6th gears for your cool off periods. Obviously you need a good place to do this. An uncrowded freeway can work pretty well. After 30 miles of this, change the oil and filter. This will get rid of all the little bits of metal. After this you can run it to full power occasionally until it has about 100 miles on the odometer. Change the oil and filter again. The rings will now be properly seated and you can ride it any way you like from now on.

Why does Yamaha not recomment this? Why do none of the manufacturers recommend this? Ask their legal departments. "Yes, Judge, I was busy monitoring my gears, time, and temperature while wildly variying my speed, just like Yamaha told me to do, and the next thing I knew I was in the hospital." No wonder they tell you to go slow. I used to break in bikes strictly by the book... never again. I always ended up with slow, oil burners.

Incidently, the high power break-in method is required by all manufacturers of piston aircraft engines. I know there are differences. I don't even want to think about the BMW guys and their unique ideas.
 

B.Curvin

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la-motor said:
Find a nice canyon road with lots of hills and twisties...AND RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!

+20
I use the Motoman method except I run it even harder. I broke in a 2005 XR650R this way. I rejetted and uncorked before starting it. Once I did start it I let it warm up for a mile while riding semi gently. I then flogged it mercilessly for 10 miles out and 10 miles back on a hilly/curvy mountain road. I came home, changed the oil, and never had an issue in the 4+ years I rode it. It ran very strong and never used a drop of oil. An ADVrider inmate in West Virginia now owns it and it still runs perfectly.
 

s-flow

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Mittenduck said:
The main point of the break in is to seat the rings to cylinder wall. Little bits of metal will get scraped off until the seal is close to perfect. To a lesser extent this will also happen in the bottom end and the transmission. It is essential to do this right away. Race teams break in their engines on a dyno at high power settings, but they never let them get too hot. If the combustion pressure is too low during the break in, the rings will never seat correctly. The result will be blow by during the life of the engine. You will know this has happened if the oil gets dirty quickly after an oil change. That engine will never deliver best power and will suffer a shortened service life. In addition, dirty oil full of combustion by-products will be lubricating the transmission and clutch. Does that sound like a good thing?

The first 30 miles are critical. Let the engine warm up, then take it up to 70%-80% power (5,500-6,500) in 1st gear and hold it there for 5-10 seconds. Then bring it back down to just above idle for 20-30 seconds. Monitor the engine temperature. Now repeat the process in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. Use 5th and 6th gears for your cool off periods. Obviously you need a good place to do this. An uncrowded freeway can work pretty well. After 30 miles of this, change the oil and filter. This will get rid of all the little bits of metal. After this you can run it to full power occasionally until it has about 100 miles on the odometer. Change the oil and filter again. The rings will now be properly seated and you can ride it any way you like from now on.

Why does Yamaha not recomment this? Why do none of the manufacturers recommend this? Ask their legal departments. "Yes, Judge, I was busy monitoring my gears, time, and temperature while wildly variying my speed, just like Yamaha told me to do, and the next thing I knew I was in the hospital." No wonder they tell you to go slow. I used to break in bikes strictly by the book... never again. I always ended up with slow, oil burners.

Incidently, the high power break-in method is required by all manufacturers of piston aircraft engines. I know there are differences. I don't even want to think about the BMW guys and their unique ideas.
I have broke in 4 new bikes in the latest years following the book, with ease and care.
Non of these has used any oil at all.

So for sure the book method works great but maybe the Motoman way works as well, thats great if so.
I see no reason to recommend it though!

This is fought about endlessly though.. I guess you should just laugh about it and do it you own perfered way.. both seems to work fine.. 8)
 

Blue_eyes

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s-flow said:
I have broke in 4 new bikes in the latest years following the book, with ease and care.
Non of these has used any oil at all.

So for sure the book method works great but maybe the Motoman way works as well, thats great if so.
I see no reason to recommend it though!

This is fought about endlessly though.. I guess you should just laugh about it and do it you own perfered way.. both seems to work fine.. 8)
Here is the scientific laboratory study: http://www.heise.de/tr/artikel/Wie-geschmiert-1369325.html
It's in German, but it is a scientific study of the process. They have concluded that a new engine should be warmed up for a few minutes and then driven full throttle on the motorway.
 

B.Curvin

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s-flow

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Blue_eyes said:
Here is the scientific laboratory study: http://www.heise.de/tr/artikel/Wie-geschmiert-1369325.html
It's in German, but it is a scientific study of the process. They have concluded that a new engine should be warmed up for a few minutes and then driven full throttle on the motorway.

Read the article a couple of time, nice for the belivers but it does not change my
experience of course. It works great to use the procedure described by the manual.

When talking about getting maximum power from the engine as quick as possible
the hard break-in might have an edge (?) but I mostly care for durability, fuel economy
and to have the bike generally working good as a unit. Of course there should be no
noticable oil consumption either!

I should not get into a debate, just share my experience.

Greetings!
 
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