spokes

[markjenn]

Been discussed in length at other threads, but there is no mechanism I can see for zip-tieing to do anything other than keep a loose spoke from flopping around and doing damage if it breaks or loosens to the point where the nipple goes AWOL. Spokes are only in tension and whether they are tied at their center makes no difference in how they are loaded.

I doubt how tight you tie them together matters much although it is remotely possible that tieing them very tightly might cause a stress riser at the point of contact as they flex. But I doubt even that is very likely - if a spoke breaks, it is almost always at the ends, especially they make a sharp bend. (One reason competing spokeless wheel designs are often stronger is that many of these systems have straight spokes without bends.)

- Mark

 

[Brick]

No like Markjenn noted the zip ties are mostly there in case a nipple comes off so that it doesn't ruin a wheel. I basically put them on with my hand not a strong pull with a pliers. I think if over tightened it could change the sound when pinging causing me to over tighten or not tighten enough. So far after 110,000 miles it's worked for me.
I try to ::021::

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but, why would "tightly," as opposed to loosely, zip tieing the spokes increase the frequency of failure?

 

[Ramseybella]

No like Markjenn noted the zip ties are mostly there in case a nipple comes off so that it doesn't ruin a wheel. I basically put them on with my hand not a strong pull with a pliers. I think if over tightened it could change the sound when pinging causing me to over tighten or not tighten enough. So far after 110,000 miles it's worked for me.
I try to ::021::

Glad I did in my case, or I wouldn't be with you guys!!
Haven't had much chance riding the Ten with the re-built wheel but I am certain Woody's gang got it right this time.
Weather is turning to Poo Poo this week, but I need to get her out as I have been locked up in this house for three days trying to find work on line. :'(.

 

[Varidian]

Hi Guys

First post after introducing myself. I've just got a 4 month old 1200 ES model and as is my want i've been trawling the forum to get clued up on the bike . I have read this post with some surprise as I wasn't really expecting any problems with the wheels being a Yamaha. Read about loose and broken spokes, especially while early in life. Sooo Just gone and checked mine and most in the rear wheel were not at the correct tension, according to Service manual.

On the Bevel side some where very loose, requiring a number of turns to get to 50inch lbs, others varying by a lot to a little. the disc side of the wheel didn't seem as bad with just a couple needing snugging up. the front wheel was not as bad , one or two were slack but most spokes required just a little tweek.

Is it really possible that these spokes have all got so slack in only 3500miles or do you think that maybe PDI and first service were lacking ?

Now i've got em all torqued to service spec do you think a bit of thread lock dribbled on each adjuster nut will help stop them backing off or is this a bad idea? i know some people have refered to using loctite green , but not found a follow up post as to wether this has been a fix.

Your thoughts and experiences greatly appreciated.

 

[EricV]

Is it really possible that these spokes have all got so slack in only 3500miles or do you think that maybe PDI and first service were lacking ?

Now i've got em all torqued to service spec do you think a bit of thread lock dribbled on each adjuster nut will help stop them backing off or is this a bad idea? i know some people have refered to using loctite green , but not found a follow up post as to wether this has been a fix.

Welcome to the forum. ::012:: No idea on the locktite. Yes, it's certainly possible that the spokes just loosened during your first 3500 miles. When my 600 mile service was done, it was supposed to be part of the service for the dealer to check/tighten the spokes, but wasn't on the ticket. When I asked if it had been done, they were up front and said no. As for PDI, probably not something that they check, if I understand your use of that term as being the pre-delivery inspection. No miles on the wheels, so no reason for them to change from the factory. It's not a normal step, from what I understand.

At this point I would check them in 1000 miles or after any off pavement ride until your second oil change, then every oil change or after any off pavement or longer ride/trip over 300 miles or so, just so you can see if things are changing or remaining static. They tend to bed in as people have said and become a non-issue for most, though not all. If you ride a mix of on and off pavement, a good idea is to loosely zip tie the spokes at each cross over point. Not enough to impact a tone check, just enough so a loose spoke can't swing away and do damage if a nipple falls off.

 

[Varidian]

Thanks for the reply and welcome

Thats a good idea , in fact i'll do it every time i give the beast a clean. To be honest i only go off road unintentionally if I overcook it on a bend ! Nice to know I might keep it upright in the scenery though . Now i've got all the spokes at the right torque it should be easy to check quickly wether further investigation is in order with the 'ping' method . I've pinged em now and all are near enough the same tone so I should be ok keeping an eye on them.

I will probably cable tie the spokes anyway as its not something you want wrecking your wheel on a long trip .

All this said i'm absolutely over the moon with this bike! I had a couple of Honda Varadero's before it . They were a fabulous bike, hardly any issues except for a strange no start problem that happened every few starts. Anyway the Yam is like a modern updated version of the Honda. similar in many respects but the Yam is such a leap forward. I chose the Yam for its reliability , despite the odd issues on this forum its nothing compared to the issues i've had with the BM's i've owned in the past. Not the pre 1990 stuff that , was great , but after that the accountants took over i think and , well , quality deteriorated theres no doubt.

I know its under warranty but its also important to me that I can maintain it myself after , in fact I will change oil and filter mid service miles anyway. Its a keeper, so I hope im on here talking to you guys and fettling the beast for a fair few years yet.

Cheers

 

[ord13]

I had some heavy issues with these f..... spokes (half of them broken on rear wheel despite regular tightening), and the only solution I found after an ultimate attempt to replace the whole rear wheel with brand new OEM parts (rim and complete set of spokes, 3 spoke lenghts if I remember well) was to mount Kineo rims instead of continue to tighten the spokes for nothing.

So far it seems like nothing has changed since 6000.00 kms without any re-tighting, but I have not enough experience with these rims to have a reliable opinion regarding the appropriateness of the purchase (selled a piece of liver and buyed these rims with, not really low-cost...).

So far so good anyway ::008::

 

[RhodeTrip]

wondering how many that have repeat loose spokes use any kind of dynamic balancing product like DynaBeads?

Jim

 

[Checkswrecks]

Shouldn't have anything to do with it. I know of at least one member who is proud to have never balanced his tires. Meanwhile we have at least two members who balance and have had spokes loosen more than once.

 

[pete m]

I've not posted for a long, long while as I've been busy with work so feel bad that this post is a negative one.

My bike is an ex-Yam UK 2013 fleetbike and I've spent a small fortune getting it how I wanted it.

Love riding it after owning a gen3 FJR 1300 for three years.

I put the bike away in December looking mint, newly re-spoked wheels (I had to pay labour) everything polished and dowsed in ACF50.

I've not looked at it for a month, so went into the garage to the covers off and was horrified, the 'kin thing is rotten, every single nut and bolt, the new spokes have completely gone (again) even the stanchions had rust on them. Then there's the issue with frame paint falling off.

Yamaha are pushing the spoke thing back to me telling it's the cleaner I use, I told them I only use Yamalube stuff and ACF50. Besides which the bike has done 200 miles since the re-spoke and not been ridden in the salt or wet roads.

Completely fed up and gutted as this is going to cost a fortune to put right.

So It's going, the next set of spokes will be the third in three years, my FJR had much better build quality and finish was much deeper.

How do Yamaha get away with this?

 

[TXTenere]

I've not posted for a long, long while as I've been busy with work so feel bad that this post is a negative one.

My bike is an ex-Yam UK 2013 fleetbike and I've spent a small fortune getting it how I wanted it.

Love riding it after owning a gen3 FJR 1300 for three years.

I put the bike away in December looking mint, newly re-spoked wheels (I had to pay labour) everything polished and dowsed in ACF50.

I've not looked at it for a month, so went into the garage to the covers off and was horrified, the 'kin thing is rotten, every single nut and bolt, the new spokes have completely gone (again) even the stanchions had rust on them. Then there's the issue with frame paint falling off.

Yamaha are pushing the spoke thing back to me telling it's the cleaner I use, I told them I only use Yamalube stuff and ACF50. Besides which the bike has done 200 miles since the re-spoke and not been ridden in the salt or wet roads.

Completely fed up and gutted as this is going to cost a fortune to put right.

So It's going, the next set of spokes will be the third in three years, my FJR had much better build quality and finish was much deeper.

How do Yamaha get away with this?

I suspect the spoke corrosion is highly environment dependent. In two years I've only washed my bike one time, yet the spokes and hardware look just fine.

 

[RhodeTrip]

Shouldn't have anything to do with it. I know of at least one member who is proud to have never balanced his tires. Meanwhile we have at least two members who balance and have had spokes loosen more than once.

Wondering if excessive high speed wobble is causing problems.

 

[pete m]

Wondering if excessive high speed wobble is causing problems.

Eh?

 

[pete m]

I suspect the spoke corrosion is highly environment dependent. In two years I've only washed my bike one time, yet the spokes and hardware look just fine.

Agreed, we've had a wet winter here but my 16 year old Duke and 23 year old FJ share garage space with the S10 and look like new.

So for me it's down to a quality issue, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[EricV]

Sorry to hear of your problems. It's not Yamaha, it's your storage method(s). ACF50 is a great product, but it's not a cure all. A climate controlled storage location will avoid corrosion issues. You apparently have a very moist storage environment. Covering the bike isn't helping, it's just trapping moisture under the cover unless you have some form of desiccant system in place and a sealed storage cover, (there are inflatable bike storage devices that stay sealed).

I understand your frustration. Tarnished spokes are common in the UK. It's an island surrounded by salt water, so that's a tough issue.

And not to be an ass, but ride the FJ more. If you're not happy with the S10, sell it or 'do it right' there are alternatives to paint. Like you, we all bought the bike Yamaha sold. It's not perfect, and certainly couldn't be for everyone and every set of conditions. Including storage and environmental, as well as riding.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Agreed, we've had a wet winter here but my 16 year old Duke and 23 year old FJ share garage space with the S10 and look like new.

So for me it's down to a quality issue, nothing more, nothing less.

I was going to suggest atmosphere as well, a drying device being needed... but with other bikes in the same space... that's disappointing.

 

[pete m]

Sorry to hear of your problems. It's not Yamaha, it's your storage method(s). ACF50 is a great product, but it's not a cure all. A climate controlled storage location will avoid corrosion issues. You apparently have a very moist storage environment. Covering the bike isn't helping, it's just trapping moisture under the cover unless you have some form of desiccant system in place and a sealed storage cover, (there are inflatable bike storage devices that stay sealed).

I understand your frustration. Tarnished spokes are common in the UK. It's an island surrounded by salt water, so that's a tough issue.

And not to be an ass, but ride the FJ more. If you're not happy with the S10, sell it or 'do it right' there are alternatives to paint. Like you, we all bought the bike Yamaha sold. It's not perfect, and certainly couldn't be for everyone and every set of conditions. Including storage and environmental, as well as riding.

How much do Yamaha pay you?

There are eleven, yes eleven pages to this thread about spokes and their crap finish.

As far as "strange" storage methods go, it's common practice here in the UK to use ACF50, WD40, Waxoil or ScotOiler protectorant.

I ride my FJ as much as I can and when time permits, so what would be the point of spending upwards of £12.5k on a motorbike not to ride it?

I've worked in coatings (R&D) most of my working life and yes there are alternatives to paint but when you've spent so much and the bike is only three years old and relatively low miles you shouldn't have to do that any-hoo.

You're completely missing the point, If a sixteen year old Duke is surviving well enough, which let's be honest is not what you'd call a paradigm for quality then so should a three year old Yam.

Even the mechanics at the local Yam dealership agree with me.

My storage methods may be strange to you but your reasoning is the strangest I've ever heard.......

 

[Ramseybella]

::026:: Pete!!

Why so much time spent on maintaining spokes on the beast?
I have stainless on mine.

 

[EricV]

@pete m - I don't find your storage methods strange at all, nor did I say so before. I merely said it is your storage methods that are part of the problem. Do you cover the duke or FJ?

Should you have these issues? No. But never the less you do. I have nearly 100k on my bike and don't give any thought to what the spokes look like. Just that they are tight.

 

[pete m]

@pete m - I don't find your storage methods strange at all, nor did I say so before. I merely said it is your storage methods that are part of the problem. Do you cover the duke or FJ?

Should you have these issues? No. But never the less you do. I have nearly 100k on my bike and don't give any thought to what the spokes look like. Just that they are tight.

All my bikes are covered with breathable fabric.

It's a matter of how you want your bike to look and personal taste I suppose, me? I like shiny spokes and at £12.5k they should 'kin shiny.