S10 and a T7

gunslinger_006

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Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
961
Location
Seattle, Washington
I'd like to throw a question out there for you guys with dealership experience. What's the real story on the hidden fees like freight and setup? When I bought my most recent new bike a 2017 DR650 in 2018, the dealer did not charge any of those fees. In fact they advertise "No BS pricing and no hidden fees". This dealer told me that freight and setup are included in the MSRP. Other dealers around here are charging $900 for freight and setup. The DR650 purchase was a leftover at a good price and they even delivered it. This was one of my best dealership experiences by far.
Freight and setup are either break even or slight profit centers. The dealers make the majority of money from the following:

Financing
Service dept
Used vehicle sales

The reason you want to let them think you are using their financing is they will ofte cut you a break on things like freight and setup because the payday comes from the kickback they get from the bank for every loan they sell.

So you let them give you a deal and once its agreed to, you say “hey i just heard from my bank, they gave me x rate, can you beat it?”

They cant. And they already agreed to sell you the bike at price x.

Source: worked for a major brand car dealership for a long time.
 

2talltoo

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Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
295
Location
Denver, CO
Pricing is often directed by state laws. Here in Denver the price is as advertised. In AZ or CA the advertised price is not worth looking at. You call and ask for the "out the door" price and it can be plus $2,000. Missouri is also a good price to gauge what to pay elsewhere.
 

SHUMBA

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Dec 29, 2018
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1,242
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ONTARIO, CANADA
Yup, same here in Canada, our consumer laws are garbage .
... sorta representative of our federal government
SHUMBA

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
 

Sierra1

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Nov 7, 2016
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14,819
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Joshua TX
. . . . So, I feel sorry for those who have dealers they regard as scum. I am sure there are many unscrupulous ones out there. Dealers have to make some profit to stay in business and keep their staff employed and they don't have to operate that way to do it. As evidenced by some of the above comments, some unfortunately do.
After reading about everybody's misfortunes, I'm with fredz. I don't know if my dealer makes more/less on cash/financing, but I do know that he purposefully makes a smaller profit per unit; bike, helmet, jacket, etc. "The more people that buy here. the more profit I make. I don't need to make it all at once." He also price matches. When he tells me a price, I accept it. I know that's he's not trying to screw me.
 
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Mak10

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Aug 20, 2018
Messages
2,567
Location
SE Idaho
It amazes me how some think of it as a game to screw the dealer out of making a profit. If you don’t like the dealer and think they are crooked- go somewhere else. To those who like to troll and “play” the dealer all the way to the final deal-with no intention of purchasing whatsoever. You are as crooked as any bad dealer.
I hope your boss calls you in to work and you commute 60 miles each way. Then when you show up he says “Sorry, we don’t need you today. Go home.”. Both pretty ass hat moves.
 

Sierra1

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Nov 7, 2016
Messages
14,819
Location
Joshua TX
Had a supervisor that would panic, and we would get called out at 3am. Only to arrive, just in time to be told "never mind". On the bright side. . . . we got 2hrs minimum OT pay.
 

gv550

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Joined
Sep 14, 2016
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1,335
Location
Listowel, Ontario, Canada
I've never heard of the finance kickback scheme, but what is the problem if you pay it off early? Does the dealer only get his kickback if the loan goes full term?
 

gunslinger_006

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Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
961
Location
Seattle, Washington
Also this isnt a scheme.

Its how every dealership works. The average car dealer might make $1500 on the sale of a $30k car for the sale, but the payoff from the bank for financing that car into $40k+ of debt is a few grand.

A used car that goes out on the lot will make the dealer about $2500 on average. The cars they take on trade that arent lot worthy get sold at closed auctions (you must be a dealer) to other lower level dealers. These auctions are how cars are funneled from big major name dealers down to joes car shack.
 
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ballisticexchris

Guest
It amazes me how some think of it as a game to screw the dealer out of making a profit. If you don’t like the dealer and think they are crooked- go somewhere else. To those who like to troll and “play” the dealer all the way to the final deal-with no intention of purchasing whatsoever. You are as crooked as any bad dealer.
I can sniff out a crooked dealership as soon as I walk through the door. I have no problem at all walking away at the very last minute of the deal if I'm being lied to. And yes I am happy and pleased to do it. Actually they do it to themselves. An honest dealer is more than willing to let you test a car/bike and let you go to another brand dealer and try out the same type of vehicle. It's when they do the song and dance to not let me leave that I'll do back what they did to me. As soon as a dealer plays games with me, I will play them back to the end. If I'm being treated with respect then they will get the same respect back.

My last motorcycle purchase was done over the phone. I was honest with the dealer and he was honest with me. I had a check for the bike sight unseen. Took a picture of it before leaving the bank so they could prep my bike. while I was in route to pick it up. That's the way transactions should be done.


I'm not apposed to a dealer making a fair profit. But I refuse to be led into paying way more than what the fair market value is.

I hope your boss calls you in to work and you commute 60 miles each way. Then when you show up he says “Sorry, we don’t need you today. Go home.”. Both pretty ass hat moves.
Oh yes that has happened more than once. It was in writing when to show up for a safety meeting. All of us night shift employees showed up and the road safety manager stood in front of the time clock saying we were not to clock in until the safety manager showed up. Called up the idiot safety manager and told him what BS this was. Well I ended up clocking in anyway and everyone followed my lead. I called and told him I don't come to work for free and we all clocked in. I was called the "F" word and screamed at. When my boss (who is above the safety manager) found out he diffused the situation by flat out telling him in front of everyone "it was just a misunderstanding" and we would be paid.
 
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ballisticexchris

Guest
If my saftey man said that to me. Somebodies ass is gonna get kicked.
Believe me he almost had a riot on his hands. I'm thick skinned and can take an ass chewing. But name calling I don't handle so well.
 

magic

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Jul 6, 2015
Messages
743
Location
WISCONSIN
So, the question on freight and setup remains unanswered. Anyone know if it is built into the MSRP? I have bought many new motorcycles over the years and the only ones that I recall being charged for freight and setup were Harleys.
 
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ballisticexchris

Guest
So, the question on freight and setup remains unanswered. Anyone know if it is built into the MSRP? I have bought many new motorcycles over the years and the only ones that I recall being charged for freight and setup were Harleys.
Yes the freight is built into the MSRP and is listed on the sticker. Setup fee is added on from the dealer. When I purchased my Beta there was no setup fee and the dealer and I split the freight in half.

As it is right now, no deals are being made on the T7. It is a hot model and negotiating a price at or below dealers cost will be really hard. The best transaction you can make that is fair for both parties is getting a bike (or any vehicle) for invoice. It is not the true cost to the dealer but a good baseline to shoot for. The dealer will get a sweet 2% holdback from the manufacturer and a few other incentives that bring their actual cost quite a bit lower. If a bike is in low production/high demand then you have to just bend over and pay the asking price.
 

lund

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Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
809
Location
Okanagan Valley, Canada.
I'd like to throw a question out there for you guys with dealership experience. What's the real story on the hidden fees like freight and setup? When I bought my most recent new bike a 2017 DR650 in 2018, the dealer did not charge any of those fees. In fact they advertise "No BS pricing and no hidden fees". This dealer told me that freight and setup are included in the MSRP. Other dealers around here are charging $900 for freight and setup. The DR650 purchase was a leftover at a good price and they even delivered it. This was one of my best dealership experiences by far.
The manufacture charges the dealers freight and setup(PDI) is a requirement by manufactures. Your correct there was a time this was not the case on frieght but not anymore.
As a dealer we are charged this on every unit and this is passed on to the customer. The cost of freight many years ago could be adsorbed into the unit price but not anymore. So now PDI and freight is part of purchasing new.
 

Mak10

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Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
2,567
Location
SE Idaho
Knowing what fees and charges takes a little bit of work on your part. In this day and age it has never been easier to get a fair deal on a bike or vehicle. Find out who has the bike you are looking for, and email or call and get them to email you details. Compare what dealers are charging for setup and freight.

Don’t impulse buy,

Cash isn’t king. Your money, or money from a bank is the same to a dealer. It’s money.

Having money to pay for your purchase is king, Maybe that’s financing and paying it off after 3 months or whatever the terms on the financial paper say. Know those terms.

Find out about manufacturers incentives and rebates, Buying models that dealers need/want to move can save a bunch. If riding the latest, greatest, newest model is your thing-just know you will be paying for that.

If you are financing, know your credit score and have a loan pre approved at the bank/CU that will give you the best rate. Shop for loans. Know your options before ever going to a dealer. Maybe the dealers rate will be better, but how will you know?

Most people won’t or don’t prepare and the dealer takes advantage of that. They are there to make money.

if you can tell the dealer is “crooked” when you first stepped in the door. WHY are you there? Leave.
 

Sierra1

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Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
14,819
Location
Joshua TX
. . . . Don’t impulse buy, . . . . Most people won’t or don’t prepare and the dealer takes advantage of that. They are there to make money. . . . if you can tell the dealer is “crooked” when you first stepped in the door. WHY are you there? Leave.
These statements should be engraved in concrete. There is absolutely no reason to buy anything without researching it. Once upon a time, ok, but, with the internet. . . . there's no reason that you make an unprepared purchase. 'Cuz, if you've done your homework, it's going to be real easy to know if the dealer is trying to screw you over. And, if they are. . . . do like Mak said. . . . leave.

My youngest went to buy a Jeep. Trading in his '14 Dart. They offer $2,500 below KBB's average trade-in amount. Sales manager comes out and tells us that since it's a manual trans, it'll be harder to sell, so it's not worth as much. It was at that point that I knew we should/would be leaving. I told him that was fine. . . . the Jeep we were looking at was a manual too. It all ended when my kid asks if they'll work with him on the Jeep's asking price. Nope, they weren't interested. Ba-bye. I had tried to buy my Jeep at this same dealer back in '12. I told them I knew I was going to have to order it, since I didn't want power windows/locks, auto-trans, or leather, etc. They said they would find one at another dealer, and transfer it to theirs. They refused to take my order, so I left. I went to another dealer. . . . placed my order. . . . happily ever after. In this case, they only get two strikes. . . . not ever going back. For those of you around here. . . . don't go to Meador Jeep/Chrysler/Ram in Ft worth.
 
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ballisticexchris

Guest
Cash isn’t king. Your money, or money from a bank is the same to a dealer. It’s money.
Well I have to disagree with you there Mark. Just a little....

Money from YOUR bank is king. If you choose to finance with a dealers choice of banks then the deals almost always go in their favor.

if you can tell the dealer is “crooked” when you first stepped in the door. WHY are you there? Leave.
Sadly you have to open the door and look around before you can leave. And I am quick to admit I have a horrible dealer right around the corner from me that I purchase parts from when I'm in a bind and need them right away.

These statements should be engraved in concrete. There is absolutely no reason to buy anything without researching it.
Exactly true. That is why my last 2 bike purchases went so smoothly. My Beta dealer was a simple choice. He raced and rode in the same area as me (District 37/desert) and belonged to my dual sport club. I did not get a rock bottom deal but he more than made up for it over the years with helping me out on parts and service.

The Super Tenere was an easy research. Lot's of new 1 year left over models on the floor. So just a few phone calls to secure a deal.

Don’t impulse buy
Oh hell no!! Impulse buys not good!! Motorcycle impulse buys are something I learned the hard way!! My KTM 300EXC is an example of that!! I was planning on racing my XR650R in the dessert Hare & Hound series. I was just checking out some bikes for fun at Malcom Smith Motor Sports in October of 2004. I remember like yesterday. He had the only new frame style 2005 300EXC available in the US.

Elmer Symons RIP(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Symons), was sponsored at the time by Malcom Smith. He actually helped sell the bike to me as he was in the dealership at the time. He was currently racing a 250EXC. I was chatting up what kind of racing I was planning to do with my 650R. We walked over he took it off the stand and had me do the lift test. The rest is history. There was no negotiating on price. I paid close to 8,000.00 for that bike. It ended up being a good purchase experience though. He personally did the PDI and setup so it was really "Ready To Race". I won one race (beginner senior class) on it and came in a few top 10 finishes (novice senior class) before I retired from racing.

After a few seasons my KTM was thrashed and the biggest money pit of any bike I ever owned.....
 
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