Replacement Clutch - What are the options?

[GSequoia]

So I might have completely and horribly destroyed my clutch. Maybe the #1 friction plate was completely destroyed. If that were to have happened, say trying to get out of a very irritating stretch of deep and soft sand I would be looking to get a new clutch (as well as pressure plate and possibly basket) for my 16. What's out there? What are the pros and cons of one over the other. Because of the amount of heat that may, in theory, of hit the immediate area I'd change the diaphragm spring, what's the merit to going with conventional clutch springs (Barrett, was it?). Last I saw mention of removing Yamahas circlip arrangement at the last friction plate, what is the merit there? Why was it there to begin with? To stop chatter?

Anyway for the morbidly curious:


I was pretty certain the clutch was hosed with I had a lot of rev but no go so I got it towed home. Today I pulled it apart for inspection. I've always said if you're going to break something do a damn good job at it. I think I did. These are the tabs from the #1 friction plate.





Frictions and steels, you can see visible wear. The circular arrangement of debris above is all I could find of the #1 friction plate at this point.



Next came the oil pipe below the pan. This was in the strainer at the reservoir.



And next comes the pan. Hey, there you are, friction ring! Lots of debris in the sump but very little debris in the oil pump pickup screen. At this point I'm going to put a couple cans of brake cleaner through it, swap the filter, clean the screens thoroughly, and put a new clutch in. Then that first oil/filter cycle will be changed out almost immediately with the next also coming short. With the pan so easy to pull (thanks for that design, Yamaha!) I'll pull the pan for at least that first change to check for debris.

So yeah. I need a clutch

 

[MattR]

Bloody hell!! Difficult to see how you did that?! Out of interest, what oil do you use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gunslinger_006]

Wow. Thanks for the pics. Seems like a decent time to consider a rekluse?

 

[gv550]

The OEM clutch has proven to be very durable with many having gone 100-200 thousand miles without issue under normal use. Some Yamahas, V4 Venture for example, have weaker clutches and the Barnett aftermarket unit will perform better.
In your case the failure was due to abuse and I doubt any clutch would have survived, but you may find the Barnett unit to be stronger and likely less money than OEM.

 

[~TABASCO~]

I would suggest a new stock clutch pack and a Barnett pressure plate.


Ive seen this before but it was worst. It got so hot it melted the aluminum and threw melted basket aluminum in the motor. It was really bad and I think it hurt the motor in his case.
With just the few pictures it looks like most of this was caused by slipping. Its unfortunate but it can easily be fixed and the chunks were big enough (it looks) that you didnt starve the motor from the oil supply. I cant see close ups of the basket but it looks as if a new clutch pack and a Barnett pressure plate will get you going again ! Im not sure if your familiar with the Barnett, you can add different springs for several different clamping forces, and a combo of springs. This product works very well.

Over the years I have run across many sand sections in UT, AZ, NM, CO, TX. I have *USED* my clutch and im still on the stock plates. I installed a Barnett back in 2013 or so. Over the years I have checked and re checked the clutch and other small wear parts. Currently the clutch still looks new on a 2012 Tenere.

side note: IMOP I would suggest the stock clutch pack. I have experience with other brands and they kind of all have a little give and take. For overall feel, longevity, performance, I suggest a stock unit mated to the Barnett. Ive messed with a lot of Tenere's, if you have any questions PM me if you like.

Also, on the schematic sheet. I would suggest while your in there to replace # 24-25-26. The push rod gets wear that will effect the feel and drag of the clutch. I change them out all the time for folks. Those three parts are about $25.

 

[GSequoia]

In your case the failure was due to abuse and I doubt any clutch would have survived, but you may find the Barnett unit to be stronger and likely less money than OEM.

Oh it was absolutely abuse no question there. I knew I was abusing the clutch when I was there (although didn't expect it to be quite this completely killed) but it was about 105º out and I was by myself in a wash in a rather dumb situation - pulled off for a 15k photo, said that looks soft so I won't go in it, I'll stay on this hard packed spot. Swing right to turn around and park and found the edge to be deceptively soft, got up on pegs to power out and get back to solid ground and before I could make corrections the sand took me its own way. After the first stuck I walked back to where I started and saw that I was about 18" off the line from the true hard pack.


You can see the arc I took working my way back to solid ground here. Standing up straddling the bike and letting it dig itself out was working on TC2. Occasionally it would still dig a bit hole and sink me to the axle in particularly soft/deep spots so I'd tip the bike over, fill in the holes, wet the sand with that 1 gallon Rotopax water jug, then keep going. I got to about 30' from the roadbed and 20' from the hard pack spot when everything stopped. I didn't realize the clutch was burnt until I got out onto the road after getting a strap from a tow truck. As soon as I turned around on the road I knew that I was riding the truck home. In retrospect while I let air out of the rear tire I didn't let enough out I found when I got home. Since this was planned to be a straight pavement run I didn't have my kit with me so was being overly cautious about the ride to the nearest air spot. That said with as soft and endless as this was I don't know if I'd have gotten out with 3psi and rimlocks.

Truly an outlying type of scenario. One of those moments where you should have trusted your gut because my gut said "hmmm, looks troublesome" but my brain said "ah don't worry, I'm just going to go to that hard packed spot right by the road."

 

[GSequoia]

Bloody hell!! Difficult to see how you did that?! Out of interest, what oil do you use?

Straight up abuse. No other explanation. I knew I was being cruel to it (although watching engine temps) but wanted to get out of the situation. Never seen one do that, hope not to again . Oil is Yamalube 10/40 with about 2,000 miles on it.

Wow. Thanks for the pics. Seems like a decent time to consider a rekluse?

Haven't really considered it on this bike as it's *generally* the bike I don't do stupid stuff on. I"d have to get used to it, too, I've only ridden a Rekluse bike once (and boy was it smaller!). I'd be curious to see how it works on the big bike in regards to engine braking and where it releases, I'm a fan of the strong engine braking of the stock setup both on and off road. I don't see the S10 listed on Rekluse's site either.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Also check the rubber damper play inside your basket. Overheating clutches tend to melt the rubber. I know what you went through. That looks like one of the washes above Glenn Helen in the Silverwood/Pilot Rock area.

 

[GSequoia]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Also check the rubber damper play inside your basket. Overheating clutches tend to melt the rubber. I know what you went through. That looks like one of the washes above Glenn Helen in the Silverwood/Pilot Rock area.

Thanks. I'm waiting on my new EBC clutch tool to pull the basket for wear so I'll definitely check that.

Location was South of the 10 on the outskirts of Cabazon, I was on my way from my dad's house in Yucca Valley back to my place in Torrance. I was about 18 miles shy of 15,000 miles when I took the below shot so went hunting for a new shot.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Ahhh!! That area is strewn with sand washes. Good on you for being able to navigate it.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Dang, I only ran into sand like that down in Mexico. I was on a 450cc dirt bike, and I absolutely hated every second of it. Can't even imagine doing that on a Tenere.

Good for you ever getting out of it, broken bike or not. I suspect I'd still be stuck there.

 

[GSequoia]

I would suggest a new stock clutch pack and a Barnett pressure plate.


Ive seen this before but it was worst. It got so hot it melted the aluminum and threw melted basket aluminum in the motor. It was really bad and I think it hurt the motor in his case.
With just the few pictures it looks like most of this was caused by slipping. Its unfortunate but it can easily be fixed and the chunks were big enough (it looks) that you didnt starve the motor from the oil supply. I cant see close ups of the basket but it looks as if a new clutch pack and a Barnett pressure plate will get you going again ! Im not sure if your familiar with the Barnett, you can add different springs for several different clamping forces, and a combo of springs. This product works very well.

Over the years I have run across many sand sections in UT, AZ, NM, CO, TX. I have *USED* my clutch and im still on the stock plates. I installed a Barnett back in 2013 or so. Over the years I have checked and re checked the clutch and other small wear parts. Currently the clutch still looks new on a 2012 Tenere.

side note: IMOP I would suggest the stock clutch pack. I have experience with other brands and they kind of all have a little give and take. For overall feel, longevity, performance, I suggest a stock unit mated to the Barnett. Ive messed with a lot of Tenere's, if you have any questions PM me if you like.

Also, on the schematic sheet. I would suggest while your in there to replace # 24-25-26. The push rod gets wear that will effect the feel and drag of the clutch. I change them out all the time for folks. Those three parts are about $25.

So 24, 25, and 26 in this?


Good to know. I haven't pulled the basket yet as I'm waiting on my EBC clutch tool to arrive tomorrow, then I'll pull the basket and finally know enough to generate the full list of necessary parts. Any suggested recipe for springs I should target? I'm definitely re-springing it because of the potential that the diaphragm spring saw too much heat load.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Yes Sir,.....

25 is what will wear. Also, the tip of #23 will wear as well but doesn't seem to wear as fast. Im suggesting changing #23 maybe every 50K. I suggest changing out the 24-25-26 anytime someone might have that side case off... If you (anyone) likes there clutch to be "tip-top" I would suggest changing out #25 maybe every 25-30K miles, maybe each valve check is a good reminder.

I have a buddy that I just changed out the 23 & 25 at the same time. (and 24-26) and it made a world of difference. He has 110K miles. We have changed out the 25 several other times in the past.

You can pull the basket if you have an impact gun. It will pull the nut off. You will need the tool to re-torque to the correct spec. Make sure you get a new nut, and re install the washer the correct direction. I believe it says 'out'

 

[ballisticexchris]

When you pull your basket hold it grab the gear segment and check for play. Even a little play in the rubber indicates the basket is toast. I'm not aware of any company that sells the rubber dampers separate except for a few models of KTM. Also check for hairline cracks all around the teeth.

 

[GSequoia]

Tool came in a day early.



Last friction plate and damper spring and seat.



Clutch housing and boss. The surface of the boss needs cleaning up but feels smooth. No scoring to be felt in the splines.



Detail on the splines and surface.



Housing detail. No visual damage just dirty.

Holding the housing still and rotating the primary gear moves it a *tiny* amount. You can see it in the video above. It feels firm in this movement and consistent every time. The primary gear
otherwise feels firmly in place.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Right on it looks like you dodged the bullet and will be able to reuse the basket.

Here is what kind of play mine had:

 

[GSequoia]

Right on it looks like you dodged the bullet and will be able to reuse the basket.

Here is what kind of play mine had:

Yeah that's loads bigger than mine! By the browning and condition of the discs most of the heat was on the pressure plate side. I was watching engine temps throughout the operation and shutting down and resting it if it got too hot (or I got too tired!).

 

[GSequoia]

@~TABASCO~ since you're familiar with the Barnett pressure plate their website is a bit short on details:


When you've gotten the pressure plates does it include the bearing pressed into place or do they expect you to press the bearing out of your OEM pressure plate and press it into theirs? I ask because mine feels just a little bit gritty, it may be just debris that can be cleaned out but I'd rather replace it as part of the project and it isn't available separately (no other bearings I have come across including the clutch housing/basket bearing feel gritty).

Thanks

 

[~TABASCO~]

@~TABASCO~ since you're familiar with the Barnett pressure plate their website is a bit short on details:
View attachment 71132

When you've gotten the pressure plates does it include the bearing pressed into place or do they expect you to press the bearing out of your OEM pressure plate and press it into theirs? I ask because mine feels just a little bit gritty, it may be just debris that can be cleaned out but I'd rather replace it as part of the project and it isn't available separately (no other bearings I have come across including the clutch housing/basket bearing feel gritty).

Thanks

That is it..... and it comes with a new bearing ! This is a good part !

 

[GSequoia]

That is it..... and it comes with a new bearing ! This is a good part !

Do you tend to buy direct from Barnett or is there a good reseller option?