Ponderings on break in: Don't be hatin' !!

[dehmlow]

WARNING / DISCLAIMER... : )

OK, I know some get annoyed about oil, tire, break-in, etc. threads as they are beat to death, but I've also learned a lot and have made my own decisions as I read other's opinions, SO, In the spirit of enjoying what other people think, and ultimately decide, without having to be 100% right or wrong...

I've been pondering on a break in method for the ST ... have done many "by the manual" break ins with no problem, but also have tried a few "hard break in " techniques... like motoman's method (google "mototune break in" if interested)... hope that's ok to say?? My last was with an '09 KLR (hard break in) and I definitely noticed a difference in mine and a couple friends KLR's (all bone stock, same year, approx. same, mileage, etc.) and they also felt my bike one other that was broken in "hard" was all around quicker and more responsive, not to mention did not burn any oil...

here's a couple questions out of curiosity...

• IF one decided to do a "hard" break in, are there any known factors (or just thoughts) that would make it an unacceptable risk?

• Does ST come with synthetic oil or dino or some hybrid or "break-in" oil? what weight? maybe we don't know that yet? maybe different in other countries?
side note: have a ducati monster manual that says "only shell advance 4" or something, which I found out can't be bought in US?? funny

• I've normally used non-synthetic motorcycle oil for hard break in and after a few oil changes gone to synthetic, depending on the bike
(stayed with regular motorcycle oil on an '09 XT250, just because it's smaller and not ridden as much)

•What oil is factory recommended? What have those who already are riding ST's using? (lucky bastards!)

• Finally, if you've read about the "hard" break in method or know about it, which method DID YOU or ARE YOU going to use?

NOTE: I am not a mechanic or scientist OR looking to start an argument, just appreciate the amazing info that can be gathered and filtered through in some of these great online communities...like this one... thanks

 

[Krabill]

I "hard" break in all my bikes. My KLR ran better than any other KLR I've ever ridden. My WR runs average. Don't know how much of it has to do with break in procedure, but eh . . . that's how I do it.

 

[k woo]

My 2 cents worth. Break in is all about ring seating, oil changing to remove metal and gasket particles, and heat cycles. A properly done "hard" break in is not and abusive break in.
This link explains it well, http://www.power-tripp.com/Break-in.html

Let the war begin!!

 

[SpeedStar]

Great topic - lots of ideas here.

ErnsTT - I know you have some info here.

 

[Venture]

Wow, a break-in AND "which oil" thread all in one!

This is going to be epic.

I break everything in by the book. I figure the engineers must have had some rationale for it.

 

[k woo]

Wow, a break-in AND "which oil" thread all in one!

This is going to be epic.

I break everything in by the book. I figure the engineers must have had some rationale for it.

Unfortunately sometimes corporate lawyers override the wisdom of engineers for two reasons. Reason 1: If somebody goes down/gets hurt "riding like they stole it" to break it in hard because the manual says to the company gets sued. Reason 2: They company does not want to pay for warranty repairs because some idiot interpreted hard break in as red lined it until the engine blows.

 

[Venture]

Unfortunately sometimes corporate lawyers override the wisdom of engineers for two reasons. Reason 1: If somebody goes down/gets hurt "riding like they stole it" to break it in hard because the manual says to the company gets sued. Reason 2: They company does not want to pay for warranty repairs because some idiot interpreted hard break in as red lined it until the engine blows.

True, but it could just as easily go the other way that product bench testing revealed an easier break in was better for longevity. If only we could find an engineer who worked in engine development to clue us in on what the reality might be...

 

[ptfjjj]

Some of you guys know of Mark Lawrence of CalSci..... Well, he actually has a post regarding this topic that I found interesting. Below is a link to his page. He provides a list of items to check when you get your new bike home meant to help you ensure that your bike was assembled completely and safely. He also provides his "hard" break in technique.

Take a look down the menu on the left side of the page to see many other interesting topics. There are many additional links which go in many different directions and cover lots of motorcycles, but the new bike checklist and break in topics apply to all bikes.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/NewBike.html#NewBike

 

[k woo]

I read that the S10's have ceramic coated cylinder walls(a good thing). Does anybody know if there are any special break in procedures to seat rings in ceramic coated cylinders?

 

[markjenn]

I haven't heard the S10 has Nikasil or other ceramic coating. (One way to tell is whether oversize pistons are available - coated cylinders can't be overbored.) I'd be a little surprised if it did. If it does, they're generally considered to have a longer break-in, but I don't think you should drive them any differently during break-in. Just be more patient for oil usage to stabilize.

My $0.02 on this controversy. I take the middle road; I don't religiously adhere to the break-in RPM limits, but I don't push the engine terribly hard for very long either during break-in.

Rationale: Cycle magazine did the only definitive discussion of break-in for motorcycles that I've read many years ago. They talked to a number of engine designers at the mfgs. They all basically said that the only reason there are break-in RPM limits is to discourage running new engines at peak power for long periods (e.g., taking it out on the freeway and top-ending the bike to "see what she will do" - when bikes weren't so god-awful powerful and maximum speeds were not that terribly high, this was SOP on a new bike.) If you have a break-in limit of 50% of peak RPM, then the engine can only make about 50% of its maximum power. That's pretty much it. Giving a new engine a heavy dose of throttle now and then is good as it takes combustion pressure to seat rings. Running it up to high RPM is good to establish working clearances in rotating parts at higher RPM. But doing both for very long might cause some localized overheating in parts that haven't established working clearances.

Having said all this, with today's engines, I doubt you can do a new engine much harm by how hard you ride it - this is pretty much a given since most riders push their bikes much harder than they're supposed to and engines are not grenading right and left. Perhaps some small percentage of bikes might fail if they're really flogged and some small percentage might not run as well if they are excessively "babied", but the vast majority are going to run the same no matter what you do.

I do think it is better to keep the engine relatively cool which means avoiding idling, avoiding heavy traffic, avoiding excessively hot weather, and avoiding two-up riding. With a water-cooled bike, this is much less important than with air-cooling, but water cooling doesn't ensure you get completely uniform temperatures throughout the engine and localized "hot spots" do occur - in these areas, running the engine under heavy load when hot might cause some localized extra wear.

Bottom line for me: Avoid iding, avoid traffic, avoid two-up, ride on open roads with varying throttle and RPM, gradually using it more and more as miles build. It's worked fine for me for about 30 new bikes I've bought over the years. To me, this strategy meets the "spirit" of what the mfg is trying to do. Stuff like Motoman's treatise are interesting but I don't think they are scientifically defensable.

- Mark

 

[k woo]

Thanks markjenn. Here is the link and quote I got it from. http://sxsnews.com/index.php/2010/10/2012-yamaha-super-tenere/

"Ceramic composite cylinder “bores” are a “liner less” design with the ceramic coating applied directly to the aluminium block to ensure uniform heat dissipation for consistent power delivery, reduced oil consumption, reduced friction and reduced weight"

 

[markjenn]

"Ceramic composite cylinder “bores” are a “liner less” design with the ceramic coating applied directly to the aluminium block to ensure uniform heat dissipation for consistent power delivery, reduced oil consumption, reduced friction and reduced weight"

Thanks for the link. I'd sorta like to get another confirmation (see below) before betting on this, but it sounds good. Done properly, ceramic coatings are the cat's meow for long piston and cylinder life.

Weird stuff happens in this regard. Many sources (including Susuki's own specs and brochures) say that the DL650 has Suzuki's coated cylinders (SCEM - Suzuki Composite Electro-chemical Material), but one guy on Advrider had his engine rebuilt and swears on a stack of bibles that his engine has conventional iron liners. For 2011, the blurb about SCEM has suddenly disappeared from all of Suzuki's literature and Suzuki's DL650 service manuals mention overboring and overbore pistons are available. It now appears that the bike NEVER had SCEM cylinders - someone just lifted ad copy from the DL1000 brochure and it propogated for five years before the error was caught.

- Mark

 

[k woo]

Ceramic cylinder confirmation from Yamaha Motor Canada:

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=3631&section=ft&group=M

"Ceramic composite cylinder "bores" are a "liner less" design with the ceramic coating applied directly to the aluminum block to ensure uniform heat dissipation for consistent power delivery, reduced oil consumption, reduced friction and reduced weight. * Specially designed high lift intake and exhaust cams provide excellent torque and power characteristics well suited to adventure touring."

 

[Hipshot]

I'm pretty certain that the DRZ 400's have a ceramic coated cylinder.

 

[markjenn]

I'm pretty certain that the DRZ 400's have a ceramic coated cylinder.

Consistent with the service manual which doesn't mention overbores and no oversize piston set on the fiche. The DL650 does show a 0.5mm overbore piston/ring set.

- Mark

 

[RMac]

Did an in-between type of break in myself. Bike got driven fairly hard during first 300 or so km then I pretty much followed the manual with occasional rpm exceptions. I was not following a particular methodology that I had read about, but I just wanted to try the bike out in the beginning which involved some hard acceleration and on one occasion involved a red-line. First oil change was at 1000km.

 

[dehmlow]

Anygody got the info on what kind if oil the ST comes with from factory? and what is recommended? type, weight , etc. - just for reference...

 

[markjenn]

Anygody got the info on what kind if oil the ST comes with from factory? and what is recommended? type, weight , etc. - just for reference...

The OM and service manual both have the same boilerplate stuff that is common to most new Yamahas these days:

- SG rated oil (or higher) or JASO MA rated oil (or higher)
- No CD diesel oils
- No Energy Conserving II oils (basically means no 5W-xx or 0W-xx oils)
- Sliding scale of recommended viscosities depending on temp from 10W-30 to 20W-50, 10W-40 probably being a good overall compromise from 10-deg F to 110-deg F
- Yamalube recommended but not required

Nothing about synthetics, for or against. I'd take this to mean that: 1) factory fill is non-synthetic, 2) you can use synthetic at any time if it meets above specs.

This is all standard Yamaha stuff and people deviate from it successfully all the time. For example, one of the most popular FJR oils is Shell Rotella T synthetic and it is a diesel oil. YMMV. Lots and lots of opinions about oil, but the above is what Yamaha says. Personally, I've been using M1 15W-50 synthetic car oil in a lot of bikes for a lot of years without issue.

- Mark

 

[eemsreno]

. Personally, I've been using M1 15W-50 synthetic car oil in a lot of bikes for a lot of years without issue.

That is the best oil ever made.

 

[TNWalker]

I have always heard that it is more important to not operate a new engine at any given rpm for a long period of time. In other words, it should be ok to exceed manufacturers recommended rpm for short durations during break in periods within reason as long as you are not holding the engine at these rpms for extended periods. I have always tried to vary the engine speeds during the break in periods on all my past bikes and have never had any issues. I have also never ran the engine at redline during these periods either. I think a variety of engine speeds, both low and moderately high rpms for short durations are fine during break in. The key to me is variety. My .02$ O