OEM vs Aftermaket Brake Pads and Rotor

Word58

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I apologize if this is a duplicate, I looked, but couldn't find it.
It is time to replace my rear brake pads and it looks like the rotor too. Not very impressed with the OEM, 14K on what looked like new pads when I bought it. Also the rotor is badly groved, and I am not talking about the infamous Ténéré lip. Admittedly I use a lot more trail braking than is probably necessary.
So the question is, "Who is running what, and why?" Thanks for your input in advance.
 

Cycledude

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If you actually wore out the rotor in only 14,000 miles I'm thinking your caliper might not be releasing properly, mine has 30,000 and still in good shape.
 

hobdayd

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I spent 25 years in disc brake development for a Tier 1 automotive supplier to OE manufacturers.

Take this as you will...given the development time, expertise, resource and expense outlaid developing these systems I WOULD ONLY EVER USE ORIGINAL OE REPLACEMENTS. And yes it's in CAPS because I feel that strongly about the subject.

Brakes are safety critical. Friction couples (pads and discs) are meticulously tested for performance, durability and refinement. OE manufacturers and their suppliers have rigorous quality standards in place to achieve a repeatable product. They run many 1,000's of hours of testing on vehicles and rigs. They have >50 years of accumulated knowledge on materials and system compatibility. Now you want to replace that set up with what...?

14k Seems low but it depends on how you ride the bike and the environment you ride it in.

Just 1 example...we were testing a very expensive 4x4 car disc brake system...35k miles was typical for on road use. 25 Miles only was typical when driven off road in a mud slurry environment.

Don't believe the aftermarket hype in preference to a warranty conscious safety minded OEM with a brand image to protect.

Rant over...
 

ace50

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While I COMPLETELY agree with 'hobdayd' rant, especially in certain design areas, (because people tend to 'get over their head')
I routinely use other stuff that's not OEM. I've even gone 'Darkside' at times! ??? (with no disastrous results).
Can you imagine a race team playing it safe all the time and still win races? or just trying something different to see how it works?
That would be boring.

Again............good rant though!! ::008::
 

Checkswrecks

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Cycledude said:
If you actually wore out the rotor in only 14,000 miles I'm thinking your caliper might not be releasing properly, mine has 30,000 and still in good shape.

While rebuilding calipers and checking the pins can't hurt, the Tenere rear rotors tend to groove quickly. We went around to look at a number of bikes at the Romney Camp-n-Ride several years ago when a few people started to notice it and confirmed this. No idea why so many do and others don't.


With respect to rear pads, there are a number of threads about them wearing fast on this bike.
 

ace50

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Checkswrecks said:
With respect to rear pads, there are a number of threads about them wearing fast on this bike.
I always assume that's because when you use the front brakes, the rear is always applied too and the rear is a rather small pad.
 

Checkswrecks

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ace50 said:
I always assume that's because when you use the front brakes, the rear is always applied too and the rear is a rather small pad.

Could be
 

BaldKnob

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All mileage may vary but my records show the stock rear pads were done at 15K miles and the EBC-HH pads I use made it to 40K on 1st set and will get to 40 with this second set (1/8" remaining). The stock fronts lasted just over 30K miles and when I tried the EBC, I only got 15 (twice) with same riding conditions.

The linked braking does contribute to rapid rear pad wear but if your calipers are not releasing properly, expect the rotor and pads to show early fatigue. Touch the caliper after a long ride...hot? bad.

Yamaha engineers are incredible and are creating some really awesome machines. That being said, there is a place in this World for the aftermarket and flexibility built into the product for things like tires, lubricants, brakes, suspension.....
 

snakebitten

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I seem to remember, years ago when the S10 was still quite new, that the linked brakes\ABS algorithm applied additional rear brake force based on rate of deceleration. As a result, heavily loaded bikes would trigger increased rear braking pressure.

I don't pretend to understand how it all works or if this is even accurate, but it could at least explain variance between bikes.
 

hobdayd

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Touch the caliper after a long ride...hot? bad.

Not true! Like all things it is not that simple!

If you can fry a steak on it...bad. if "hot" to the touch that is nothing in disc brake terms. 30 - 50 degree. C.

Pad disc temperatures can easily achieve 500 degrees C on repeated hard breaking. On some installations we would see 1,100 degrees C (alpine decent simulations).

Some of this heat gets transferred to the caliper via conduction through the brake piston and from the bridge section over the pads / discs from heat radiation.

The average running temperature of a disc brake that has NOT been applied after several miles at 60 MPH could be between 30 degree. C and 80+ degree. C.

Pads run in close contact with the disc to reduce the travel required to apply them at the break lever. The caliper piston seal is not a simple pressure seal. It functions as a piston retraction device allowing a small clearance between the pads and discs to reduce residual breaks off drag.

This seal phenomenon is known as piston seal rollback. Seal rollback is variable and can change. Residual drag can change. (For many reasons). So, caliper temperature can change.

My expert opinion is that Yamaha friction couples are as good as they get.

I don't subscribe to Voodoo and for similar reasons I avoid aftermarket when an OE alternative is available.
 

scott123007

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This was the OP's first post but the way I read it, he has only gotten 14k out of pads he "thought" were new when he bought the bike. To me, that means that A: the brakes may have or may not been new, and B: the rotor could have any number of miles on it. Regardless, brake pad and rotor life is a lot like gas mileage. Riding conditions and skill set as well as other factors, play a big part in their longevity.

On another note, if you earn your living developing the "best" brakes for OEM vehicles, vs operating those vehicles anywhere near their performance limits, it will be very unlikely that you'll agree on what the "best" brakes are.
 

WJBertrand

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I tend to agree with sticking with OEM brake parts given the choice. As long as there isn't something about the OEMs that are causing a problem, switching to aftermarket, both with cars and bikes seems to cause more issues than were there before in my experience. I'm talking about noise, vibration, rapid wear of either the rotor of the pads, etc. Having said that, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong as my rear brakes have gone almost 28K miles and look to still have about 1/3 thickness compared to new ones held side by side. They have worn quite evenly as well.
 

OldRider

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I won't get into what's best as far as brake pads go, but I have easily sold over 1000 sets of EBC pads and have never had the first problem. I've also sold a ton of OEM pads with no problems. I stay away from the junk stuff.
 

scott123007

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OldRider said:
I won't get into what's best as far as brake pads go, but I have easily sold over 1000 sets of EBC pads and have never had the first problem. I've also sold a ton of OEM pads with no problems. I stay away from the junk stuff.
I won't use anything but EBC HH pads on any of my bikes and my "fast" bike is FAST, so stopping it is a priority! lol
 

Andylaser

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I would be happy to use EBC pads and discs, as they are a known specialist in the braking industry and their products are exceptionally good.
 

hobdayd

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ECB Warranty

Motorcycle Street Bike Disc Brake Pads
The EBC Brakes warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship only. Warranty is for replacement of similar product or refund of purchase value only excluding all labour and ancillary charges such as collection, fitting, inconvenience, purchasing of other manufacturers products and is good for a period of twelve months from date of purchase or 5,000 miles of highway use. Proof of mileage will be required. Warranty is invalid if product is used for taxi/hire car, racing, trackday experience riding, or any other form of competition. There is absolutely no warranty on any EBC product for race use. Warranty does not cover brake noise or normal wear and tear. Some brake pad systems cause pads to wear faster than others. Riders must assess the performance and durability of EBC Brakes products themselves if any EBC product is to be used in racing.

Motorcycle Street Bike Disc Brake Rotors
Warranty is for replacement of similar product or refund of purchase value only excluding all labour and ancillary charges such as collection, fitting, inconvenience, purchasing of other manufacturers products and is valid for a period of twelve months from date of purchase or 5,000 miles of highway use. Warranty is invalid if product is used for racing, trackday experience driving, or any other form of competition. There is absolutely no warranty on any EBC product for race use. Riders must assess the performance and durability of EBC Brakes products themselves if any EBC product is to be used in racing. EBC also strongly recommends the use of its own EBC brand brake pads to run with the EBC rotors and numerous other aftermarket brands have been found to damage EBC rotors. The EBC rotor and pad is sold as a matched set and developed to work together, do not risk damaging your rotors with using a pad that may damage your new EBC rotor product.

Motorcycle Dirt Bike and ATV/UTV Disc Brake Rotors
Warranty on off road brake rotors covers manufacturing and size/fitment defects only and does not cover wear and tear which is almost impossible to evaluate in off road conditions and is limited to replacement of the supplied parts only. No claims for ancillary costs such as fitting, removal or shipping costs is included in the standard EBC warranty.

Motorcycle Dirt Bike and ATV/UTV Disc Brake Pads

Warranty on off road brake pads covers manufacturing and size/fitment defects and brake efficiency aspects only and does not cover any form of wear and tear or product lifetime which is almost impossible to evaluate in off road conditions .Warranty is limited to replacement of the supplied parts only. No claims for ancillary costs such as fitting, removal or shipping costs ids included in the standard EBC warranty. Users and installers attention is drawn emphatically to the brake selector charts shown elsewhere on this website and accessed via the link below when choosing brake pad materials as there is a VAST difference in longevity between different grades offered by the Company. Rapid wear can result due to incorrect pad selection or recommendation.
/brakes-selector-chart/

How to proceed with a warranty claim
A proof of purchase receipt showing the date of purchase and mileage installed, endorsed by an independent mechanic who fitted the parts or a store staff member who sold you the parts will be required to be returned with all of the products purchased. To enable your vehicle to be used whilst your warranty claim is considered, should you need to purchase replacement parts this must be done by purchasing the parts from EBC themselves. In the event of a successful compensation award, we will refund the credit card that you used to buy the replacement parts in full or part depending on the nature of the claim. EBC Brakes reserves the right to make full or partial compensation at its sole discretion depending upon the condition and mileage used of the returned suspect parts. For example, if you have used the product for several thousand miles and the defect is noticed, only a partial compensation may be offered.
 

Cycledude

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Yes my rear rotor is in nice shape at 30,000 miles but I forgot to mention the rear OEM brake pads were shot at 25,000 miles, I replaced them with another set of OEM pads.
 

Tony99

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2013 Supere Tenere pads and rotor were replaced at about 12000 miles. Hard riding and some off road. Replaced with ebc and now at 37000 miles no problems.
 

Word58

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Cycledude said:
If you actually wore out the rotor in only 14,000 miles I'm thinking your caliper might not be releasing properly, mine has 30,000 and still in good shape.
No, I have 34k on the bike, and the rotor still has plenty of meat left to it. It just has an irregular wear profile, i.e. thin spots.
 

Word58

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snakebitten said:
I seem to remember, years ago when the S10 was still quite new, that the linked brakes\ABS algorithm applied additional rear brake force based on rate of deceleration. As a result, heavily loaded bikes would trigger increased rear braking pressure.

I don't pretend to understand how it all works or if this is even accurate, but it could at least explain variance between bikes.
That could definitely be a big part of it. Probably half those miles were two up and 4K of those were with 18 days worth of gear.
 
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