No idle and high idle problem

Fintenere

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Time will show is Yamaha's explanation right.
However the symptons which you have described are so similar as my s10 had.
Except I have about 400km to the sea but we have a lot of lakes here in Finland. :lamp:
Though in my case it had nothing to do with humidity.
I know the grounding problem with FJRs and it can be some kind of electronic problem with S10 too.

Perhaps they didn't change the whole throttle body because there was not any error code (60).
And it costs about 1200$ and what I know a faulty throttle servo motor is quite unusual.
But there have been faulty servo motors, they (Yamaha) even admitted that atleast with R1s.
Why this could not be true with S10 also?
They (S10 riders) who haven't had any problems with their bikes should be happy.
But still my opinion is that Yamaha's quality is not the same as before.

And if you (I don't mean you stevemac) will read all this topic don't think that I'm hypocondriac this story is FACT.

By the way I found one case (idle speed 800-2500 error code 60) in German forums.

FINE BIKE but a little unreliable.
But not so unreliable as BMW not even close. ::012::
 

snakebitten

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Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

You will have to look long and hard here to find the word "unreliable" and S10 combined. Period.

Even the most anal of S10 owners only have complaints about some design issues by Yamaha. (Spokes, headlight harness, etc) But "unreliable" is a leap.

In fact, the most quoted reason by new owners is that after making their comparisons during the pre-purchase period, RELIABILITY was in favor of the Yamaha.

Having said all that, you do appear to be experiencing serious issues that are almost unheard of for this bike. I regret that.
 

Fintenere

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Ho ho ho snakebitten, I said only 'a little'.
Otherwise I really like my bike and especially it's handling and balance.
And now I don't see any other better choise.
But it's not as reliable as my earlier Suzuki and Honda.
This is my experience and maybe bad luck to me but it's fact in my case.
 

stevemac

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Fintenere, I agree about the BMW. I test rode a gs12 and liked the ride, but as I was buying new and to keep the warranty the servicing would have been done by a dealer. The thought of paying for 3-4 BMW services a year compared to yam prices was frightening. The thought of broken final drives was the nail in the BMW coffin for me. Yes Snakebitten, reliability was one of the reasons in choosing the S10.

Mechanically my FJR has been good. 20k+ per year and no mechanical issues, it doesn't even need oil between 6k services, but the electrics have been a nightmare. The dealer I brought the S10 from has a bike instructor who used an fjr. He brought a US import, like mine, to use in bad weather and keep his UK bike in good nick. He had nothing but problems with the electrics after the first winter and when they tried swapping a few parts over to fault find they unexpectedly found the electrics to be more different than you would expect. I can't believe they would use lesser parts on US bikes, we get a lot of crap weather in the UK, but so do parts of the US.

I also had a 2000 model R1 which I had for years and did 40k on. The clutch was the only thing to be replaced and that was slipping when I got it. A 2006 model R1 followed and although I never put much mileage on that one, no problems. I always assumed I got a bit of a lemon bike with my FJR. So far I've loved the S10. The ride and comfort are spot on and the handling good for what it is. Could do with a bit more power, but the clutch mod helped. What I was hoping for was to not have to spend my weekends stripping and cleaning the bike and various parts. I know some people love that sort of thing, but my bikes are now more transport than hobby.

I pick it up on Saturday and hopefully there'll be no more issues. It'll be back at the garage for the 18k service in a few weeks so hopefully they will check to see how much more corrosion has appeared, if any, as the roads here are being well salted at the minute. Hopefully knowing the bike they will also pay a bit more attention to preventative measures such as greasing various parts. I believe that part of the problem with the FJR was the dealer. Knowing the harness was suffering they still never came out and said 'do you want us to do such and such'. I'd have had to pay a bit more but knowing the problem it would've been worth it rather than waiting until it went bang and then mentioning the state of corrosion. I'll get the mechanic to point out the trouble spots and dose up on AFC50.
 

fedev2

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Fintenere said:
Only a quick answer now.
Clock shows 22.30, time to go bed (wife's order). :'(

Here's the answer what I told to Tenerator12:

As I told the whole throttle body was changed but for all that the idle speed stayed once at 800 rpm last season.
In winter time I examined all the wiring again and noticed the from generator coming wires were so close to ecu and the wires which come from the throttle body sensors. The wires were so close to each other (not tied).
Maybe I had caused this by myself installing the power commander.
I assume that ecu got some wrong value(s) (tps?) and that's why adjusted the idle RPM wrong.
And MAYBE that was caused by EMI (electromagnetic irterference), just quessing and hard to prove.
Also the vibration near the engine is hard and that may cause problems too.
I changed the wire routes and also tied all the connectors and wires well.
Now nearly 11000km ridden this season without problems.

The other peculiarity which I mentioned was to stop the engine by touching the wires just above the engine near the throttle body.
I think it was achieved by static electricity (I took off my jacket just before touching).
This is also just quessing and hard to prove.
The explanation was accepted by Yamaha service too.
Hi, I know it's an old post, but did you solve the problem Fintenere? I'm having the same problems, I thinks Nimbus too and I think its the tps, if your throttle body was replaced the new one came with a new tps and accelerator sensors. My bike has the same symptoms you described before and after a year or so I'm thightening the circle around this two sensors. Please let me know if re routing the wires solve the problem.
Many thanks
 

Fintenere

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Hi everybody,

Nowadays I visit quite rarely on this forum but coincidentally I came here today and noticed the latest post.
Unfortunatelly I must tell that the problem has not been solved totally.
Over 20000 km went well but last summer I got once over idle speed (1500-1600 rpm).
Now I have 41000 km on the clock and made a big service.
I checked valves changed plugs fluids and so on.
I also opened all couplers near the throttle body. Used contact spray put them back and tied wires carefully.
Next summer will show did this help again.

My conclusions (I may be totally wrong):
I think that the problem is not ECU. It's just doing what it has to do.
Maybe tps perhaps accelerator sensor their couplers or wiring.
Most of all I doupt the couplers.
There is a lot of vibration. And if the couplers are bad quality or loose it will cause extra resistance
or breaking and that will cause wrong values for ECU.
Maybe some kind of grounding problem too (FJRs had some) and maybe and maybe ...........
If it would be possible to discuss with Yamaha engineers the problem might be solved.
Perhaps they know what to do but they don't tell us. ::010::
 

arjayes

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Problems like this, and the incredibly controversial "hard start" phenomenon, should be relatively easy to diagnose. There's a computer in the bike that knows just about everything that affects how the bike runs. If it just logged every parameter that it tracks say 10 times per second into flash there would a complete record of the last N hours of operation, limited only by the amount of flash available. Flash is cheap these days. An 8GB microSD card is < $10. If the ECU logged 10,000 bytes of data per second, 8GB would hold well over 200 hours of data (way more than needed). Then when a problem occurs a Yamaha factory technician could plug into the ECU and see after the fact exactly what was happening. He should also be able to plug in and take over the ECU while it's still in the bike, controlling things from the test computer and seeing things in real time.

I design electronic systems for a living, and if I designed the brains of a motorcycle (or any vehicle) I would absolutely design in these features. You can't debug the system or develop algorithms without this stuff, or at least not easily. I'm really curious exactly what's in the ECU and what the factory can do with it. It's possible that they intentionally don't log data for liability reasons (in the case of crashes), or to protect their proprietary secrets. But the technology is definitely available and would add almost zero cost to the bike. It's completely unacceptable for an owner to have to live with problems like this with almost no recourse for resolution. The owner should be able to just pop out the ECU and mail it to the Yamaha factory for diagnosis. It really could be that simple.
 

fedev2

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Fintenere said:
Hi everybody,

Nowadays I visit quite rarely on this forum but coincidentally I came here today and noticed the latest post.
Unfortunatelly I must tell that the problem has not been solved totally.
Over 20000 km went well but last summer I got once over idle speed (1500-1600 rpm).
Now I have 41000 km on the clock and made a big service.
I checked valves changed plugs fluids and so on.
I also opened all couplers near the throttle body. Used contact spray put them back and tied wires carefully.
Next summer will show did this help again.

My conclusions (I may be totally wrong):
I think that the problem is not ECU. It's just doing what it has to do.
Maybe tps perhaps accelerator sensor their couplers or wiring.
Most of all I doupt the couplers.
There is a lot of vibration. And if the couplers are bad quality or loose it will cause extra resistance
or breaking and that will cause wrong values for ECU.
Maybe some kind of grounding problem too (FJRs had some) and maybe and maybe ...........
If it would be possible to discuss with Yamaha engineers the problem might be solved.
Perhaps they know what to do but they don't tell us. ::010::
+10 Definitely
My bike goes crazy when touching the joint coupler and its wiring harness.
 

spasm

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Has anyone got any photos to show the wires/cables that need sorting, I desperately need to sort mine out, it started this idling problem today, I've had the bike in bits and checked everything, sprayed everything, and it's still idling between 2 and 3k

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

fedev2

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

spasm said:
Has anyone got any photos to show the wires/cables that need sorting, I desperately need to sort mine out, it started this idling problem today, I've had the bike in bits and checked everything, sprayed everything, and it's still idling between 2 and 3k

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
I have not solved this yet, but I will upload a photo when ready
 

hrimfaxi

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Peter, Denmark, XT1200 2011

I now have the EXCACT same problem as FinTenere in the first post. .... errorcode 60 and all. Enginge revs to 2500-3000 rpm in idle speed and even when in gear (all gears). Sometimes it cuts out and cant keep idle speed at all.
It's going to the shop 2 days from now.

Danish dealer has spoken to Norway where they may have located the error in bad wireringharness.

Solution: change the wireing - i have 3 months left in warranty. At the same time they are gonna change the recall-headlight-error tha's been around.

Will let you know how it goes :)

Pete
 

condonloft

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

STEVEMAC!!! I HAVE SAME PROBLEM RIGHT NOW....

Hello Guys,

My name is Ed. from Los Angeles, I bought used Super Tenere, last month, bike was running fine for few days, and all of sudden engine stop at traffic signal, I try to start the engine again could not start the bike. I wait it for 10 mint and engine start and riding for 15 mint. then engine stayed at 3500 RPM, Until i touched the throttle again and speeding up and 4500 RPM then i want to reduce speed so i let it go the throttle... then rpm stayed at 3500 again.

I took it to the dealer and explained what happen to this bike. Dealer said never had this problem with any customer.. so they diagnostic the bike and nothing shows ! Machanic guys said might be the angle sensor problem.. so they changed the part. After i took out the bike from the dealer, I ran into stop signal, engine stop quit again. I try to start the engine,,,, i can not run the engine. so i wait it for 15 mint.. and engine start again and took it back to the dealer.

When i left the bike, service guys was watching bike was running low 800 RPM. and engine stoop. They saw the problem and they diagnostic the bike and shows errorcode they can not figure it out... so they contacted Yamaha Company. Yamaha company tech came and look and said, shows addminstarate errocode, they said to dealer service guy to reset it and diagnostic the bike again. Bike still at the shop and service guy is still riding back and forward work to home, and waiting for the idle speed problem... this is the information as of TODAY...

Since i have this issue and can not figure this problem... and few friend told me to search online about this site. I ran in to this topic, i got many information and similar issues, I don't know why YAMAHA COMPANY is not recall this issues...
I want it to gether all this information and try to show it to dealer and follow up with YAMAHA COMPANY... I don't know this is right way to resolve it??? This is safety issues.
 

terrysig

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

started the riding season in march with 23000 on the clock. this idle issue started with first ride this season and i've been fighting it the whole time. either quits on low idle OR idles at 3500.

talked to a couple dealers who want to keep the bike for diagnosis. since it's my only transport that's not going to happen. so i put up with it.

one odd note - it does not do it at all with the CJM.

i tried the CJM when new and thought it OK but didn't really need it. Will flash some day but not yet. stock bike except for a aux lights.

when the idle issue started i though i'd give the CJM a try having run out of ideas and lo and behold no moe idle issues. not sure what to make of it but the CJM is still in it awaiting a resolution?
 

Koinz

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

terrysig said:
started the riding season in march with 23000 on the clock. this idle issue started with first ride this season and i've been fighting it the whole time. either quits on low idle OR idles at 3500.

talked to a couple dealers who want to keep the bike for diagnosis. since it's my only transport that's not going to happen. so i put up with it.

one odd note - it does not do it at all with the CJM.

i tried the CJM when new and thought it OK but didn't really need it. Will flash some day but not yet. stock bike except for a aux lights.

when the idle issue started i though i'd give the CJM a try having run out of ideas and lo and behold no moe idle issues. not sure what to make of it but the CJM is still in it awaiting a resolution?
Very Strange that it runs fine with the CJM and it doesnt without it. Are you getting an error codes? It smells like an electrical issue as mentioned in other posts. When I had a wierd intermittent wiring issue, I would gently tug or move the wires around while the engine was running while be very attentive to any changes. Just a thought.
 

terrysig

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

No codes and runs so well in CJM mode that i tend to forget about it.

I've had an appointment with the dealer for a couple months to include the light harness but thats on backorder so haven't made it in.

Dealer thinks its fuel injection module but says it's on back order as well. The way things are going they can have it over winter to resolve.

if it starts during CJM mode I'll be forced to deal with it but until then just riding it.

thanks I appreciate the ideas.
 

Gcontroller

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

edopark said:
STEVEMAC!!! I HAVE SAME PROBLEM RIGHT NOW....

Hello Guys,

My name is Ed. from Los Angeles, I bought used Super Tenere, last month, bike was running fine for few days, and all of sudden engine stop at traffic signal, I try to start the engine again could not start the bike. I wait it for 10 mint and engine start and riding for 15 mint. then engine stayed at 3500 RPM, Until i touched the throttle again and speeding up and 4500 RPM then i want to reduce speed so i let it go the throttle... then rpm stayed at 3500 again.

I took it to the dealer and explained what happen to this bike. Dealer said never had this problem with any customer.. so they diagnostic the bike and nothing shows ! Machanic guys said might be the angle sensor problem.. so they changed the part. After i took out the bike from the dealer, I ran into stop signal, engine stop quit again. I try to start the engine,,,, i can not run the engine. so i wait it for 15 mint.. and engine start again and took it back to the dealer.

When i left the bike, service guys was watching bike was running low 800 RPM. and engine stoop. They saw the problem and they diagnostic the bike and shows errorcode they can not figure it out... so they contacted Yamaha Company. Yamaha company tech came and look and said, shows addminstarate errocode, they said to dealer service guy to reset it and diagnostic the bike again. Bike still at the shop and service guy is still riding back and forward work to home, and waiting for the idle speed problem... this is the information as of TODAY...

Since i have this issue and can not figure this problem... and few friend told me to search online about this site. I ran in to this topic, i got many information and similar issues, I don't know why YAMAHA COMPANY is not recall this issues...
I want it to gether all this information and try to show it to dealer and follow up with YAMAHA COMPANY... I don't know this is right way to resolve it??? This is safety issues.
Similar problem here recently started at around 10,000 miles stalled at a stoplight wouldn't start. Other times the idle was around 800 really weak. Shut off the key turned it back on and it fired right up. Pull into a gas station and the revs are stuck at 2500 rpm. Done this a couple times now but always starts and runs fine after turning off the key and runs fine on the freeway. Taking it to Thousand Oaks Powersports Friday to see what's up.
 

fedev2

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Gcontroller said:
Similar problem here recently started at around 10,000 miles stalled at a stoplight wouldn't start. Other times the idle was around 800 really weak. Shut off the key turned it back on and it fired right up. Pull into a gas station and the revs are stuck at 2500 rpm. Done this a couple times now but always starts and runs fine after turning off the key and runs fine on the freeway. Taking it to Thousand Oaks Powersports Friday to see what's up.
Same problem here, tried another ECU, tps, accel sensor, and didnt solve it. IMO it's definitely electrical. Many bikes with the same symptoms and where is the yamaha?
 

Gcontroller

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

I have the same problem. The dealer had the bike for 5 days. Their solution from Yamaha at the time was to run 5 bottles of Engine Med RX in one tank of gas. Really?? It didn't work and has only gotten worse. I have no faith in the bike now as it has let me down on a couple of occasions. Lucky I was close to home and able to get back. The problem is intermittent. It's going back to the shop on a flat bed because I just don't trust it and the dealer is 50 miles away. The bike only had 13,000 miles. Very disappointed. I have had many Yamahas and they were all reliable except this one.
 

Gcontroller

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Ok so bike back in the shop again for the same issue I reported earlier. This time it was in the shop for 13 days on top of the 5 days it was in the first time. The solution? They synced the throttle bodies and suggest I run engine med in every tank of fuel. That's it? They were unable to replicate the problem. Judging by the mileage when it went in and when I got it home they didn't test ride it for more then 1 mile if any in the 13 days they had it this time. I was told there were fuel deposits on the valves due to running at low rpm. This is a freeway commuter bike that does 70-85+ mph on a regular basis on my 100 mile daily commute it doesn't see offroad or extended low rpm. And fuel deposits on my valves will cause a stuck throttle or low idle / stalling? Something doesn't sound right to me. But I will run it until it does it again which I hope it doesn't fingers crossed. Their first diagnosis was possible bad servos on the throttle body. The Dealer planned to try to get them replaced under warranty. That didn't happen. I did see an error code 60 last time the throttle was stuck at 5000 rpm once I shut it off and tried to re-start it.

I have other issues with their billing for services this bike can't even receive but won't get into that. I will be speaking with them again tomorrow hopefully we can iron that out. But hey they were very friendly............ Ran fine on my 50 mile ride back to my house from their shop in Thousand Oaks.
 

fedev2

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Jul 24, 2012
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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

what a shitty bike, mine continues with issues, the dealer is evaluating a wire harness problem, since everything else was tested and/or replaced without success. I dont think I'll buy a yamaha again. Far from flawless is full of problems, and the dealers suck at their job.
 
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