New, strange clutch issue

[cbennett5199]

Due to moving and house renovations, I have hardly ridden my 2016 in over a year. I used to ride it all the time. Since I want to start riding again, I went out for a shakedown ride only to have the clutch unable to find neutral. When I turn off the bike, no problem. Came home, bled the clutch a bunch. When out, and was initially relieved because it worked fine. Then it happened again - couldn't get it out of neutral. Came home to inspect. Clutch fluid still clean and full. BUT I notice that the clutch is not totally disengaging when the clutch lever is pulled in. Somewhere, somehow, the clutch is not separating the clutch plates fully. When I was last riding the bike, nothing like this was ever the case. I'll rebleed the clutch and change out the oil. We'll see if this does it.

Has anyone had this problem, and what did you do to fix it - short of replacing clutch plates?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sierra1]

I've heard of cleaning the shifter pivot point helping. A dirty pivot sometimes gives these symptoms. I don't know the why, 'cuz it doesn't make sense to me, but . . . .

 

[Fennellg]

It can work miracles. Clean and grease.

 

[RCinNC]

If the master cylinder has been bled and you've pretty much replaced the old fluid, I think I'd take a look at the clutch slave cylinder and see if any corrosion has built up inside the cylinder that might be inhibiting its smooth movement.

There's a post here that discussed how the member cleaned his. Unfortunately all the photo links have been broken, but the member does talk about how he cleaned it. It might give you some guidance.

This is a link to that post: https://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?threads/clutch-slave-cylinder-service.14940/

 

[Squibb]

I'm wondering how many miles you have done, since bringing the bike back into use; how many heat cycles, how much stop/start traffic riding?
Was it re-commissioned, with a full service after standing idle?

Personally, after checking the slave, greasing the shifter pivot & giving the bike an oil change I would suggest you get out there & simply rack up at least 500 miles before jumping to any conclusions. I know it's annoying but, if the clutch drags initially, just get into the habit of clicking into neutral immediately before a prolonged stop.

 

[cbennett5199]

Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions! Rebled the clutch and changed the oil. Will grease the shifter pivot today. And then, yes, have to get back in the saddle for the bike's sake as well as mine.

 

[2aroundtheworld]

We very similar symptoms on one of our bikes that we just rode back from Baja. I will look at that shifter pivot.

 

[cbennett5199]

Here's an update - though, unfortunately, not a solution. I changed the oil, greased the clutch shifter pivot, blead the clutch at least five times. I also removed the slave cylinder and push rod, checked those for gunk or something funking. Everything seemed fine so I cleaned them and reinstalled. I've never experienced this before on any bike I've owned, but my 2016 shifts great and I can find neutral no problem.... until I ride for a while, do some tight u-turns or something else where I slip the clutch for control. Hence, after I run it and work the clutch for a bit (15 minutes even), I simply cannot get to neutral. It's not because I'm a I don't have the feel or don't know how to try about five other ways to find neutral. It's because the clutch is not fully disengaging the gears, so when I have it on the center stand the wheel will turn while in 1st gear, clutch fully engaged. Thus, when the bike is off the center stand and pushing forward on the ground, the transmission won't allow me to push it out of first and into second. If I just take off, it will ride fine, no problem, shifting through all the gears. None of this happens when it's cool and before I start working the bike for a bit - i.e., it's normal, like it's always been. I've never seen this issue and am flummoxed. Like I said, it was working just fine before I took a hiatus to do home renovations and repairs. Just doesn't make sense that the clutch plates are bad. Naturally I'd love to avoid opening up the clutch and dealing with that, but I will if necessary. Have done that before on other bikes.

Bottom line: still dealing with this strange problem.

 

[OldRider]

I would be looking at the lever. Rig up something to extend the push rod just a little. It won't take very much to make it work.

 

[RCinNC]

I might try changing the oil and see what happens. If you google something like "my motorcycle won't shift into neutral", two of the common reasons you'll find is a low oil level or old/contaminated/wrong grade oil.

 

[cbennett5199]

OldRider - Interesting idea on the master cylinder push rod. I'll check that out.

RCinNC - I changed the oil with fresh, good quality synthetic. Should have done it at the end of my last real riding season. Was hoping for that to be the cure. Unfortunately, it didn't do the trick.

 

[2aroundtheworld]

I am pretty sure it's normal for the clutch to stay a tiny bit engaged when on the center stand in first gear. I know my 2012 does the same.

 

[Sierra1]

I've heard that's supposed to be a no-no.

 

[sheikyerbooty]

me too. UJ between output and drive shafts does'nt like that angle? or somethin'

 

[Gerard]

It almost sounds you may have warped clutch plates, but why would they be warped.
But "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".

 

[Boris]

If you decide to open the clutch up, this may help…….

http://www.vibefreev.com/downloads/Removing%20and%20Replacing%20the%20Yamaha%20XT1200%20Clutch%20Basket.pdf

 

[cbennett5199]

me too. UJ between output and drive shafts does'nt like that angle? or somethin'

Boris - Does "UJ" = universal joint?

Something happening when the clutch (or something else) heats up since everything works great before that happens.

 

[bimota]

Boris - Does "UJ" = universal joint?

Something happening when the clutch (or something else) heats up since everything works great before that happens.

UJ does mean universal joint

rob

 

[cbennett5199]

If you decide to open the clutch up, this may help…….

http://www.vibefreev.com/downloads/Removing%20and%20Replacing%20the%20Yamaha%20XT1200%20Clutch%20Basket.pdf

Thanks. That is a great pdf! Appreciate it.

 

[cbennett5199]

SOLVED. Just to close the loop, this is how I "fixed" the issue. I eventually said, "to heck with it," and bought a new clutch disc set. Replaced all discs and checked to make sure nothing obvious inside the clutch was messed up. Buttoned it up, wrestled with the slave cylinder rod seating properly, and now everything is totally fine. This is my hypothesis on what caused the problem: I haven't really ridden the bike in over a year. I used to ride a lot, but new house maintenance and reno have sidelined my riding. I often started it up, let it idle to warm, then shut it off. This helped the battery, but didn't do a thing to move clutch and drive train parts. Worse, I did not change the oil before I let it sit. The oil must have had close to 4k on it. And for a bunch of the time not riding, the bike was on its side stand so I could occasionally do some balance drills. With the bike on its side, oil drained from clutch, plates never moved, etc. I think the plates got sticky, a bit sludgy and wouldn't always fully disengage after I used the clutch a bunch (slow speed stuff, for example). I noticed a couple of signs of gunk buildup and the plates did "dirtier" than I've seen on other bikes that I've replaced the clutch on. Anyway, that's my hunch. Next time I know I won't be riding the bike a lot, I'm going to put clean oil in it, take it out occasionally to get everything moving, and mostly put it on its center stand when sitting for a while.