Missing gears in downshift

[WookinPaNub]

Hi all,
Looking for a second opinion after taking in my 2013 S10 (11k miles) to the shop with a shifting issue. Here's what I'm seeing

Intermittently I will be unable to downshift and find the next gear. Normally as soon as I put my foot on the clutch pedal there is a resistance. While depressing the clutch and pressing down on the pedal there is the usual 'click' and the bike downshifts. In some cases, however, I go through the same mechanics but when I put my foot on the pedal there is no resistance. It simply / smoothly transits to the bottom but without engaging a downshift. I can press repeatedly and it just simply slides downward and returns to the start position without engaging.

When this occurs I have to rock the bike backward and forward until 'something' engages and I can feel the resistance in the clutch pedal to be able to shift. This is annoying at stop lights, dangerous on rocky uphill downshifts.

It is intermittent, does not occur on upshifts or when down shifting from 6->5, 5->4, or 4->3. The only time it has happened has been 3->2 (sometimes) or 2->1 (most often).

The shop is telling me this is 'normal' type behavior, but I don't remember this occurring when the bike was brand new. I'm very careful to ensure the clutch is fully pulled in, and my last oil change was 4k ago with a full synthetic.

Do others see this on their bikes as 'normal' behavior?

 

[TXTenere]

Hi all,
Looking for a second opinion after taking in my 2013 S10 (11k miles) to the shop with a shifting issue. Here's what I'm seeing

Intermittently I will be unable to downshift and find the next gear. Normally as soon as I put my foot on the clutch pedal there is a resistance. While depressing the clutch and pressing down on the pedal there is the usual 'click' and the bike downshifts. In some cases, however, I go through the same mechanics but when I put my foot on the pedal there is no resistance. It simply / smoothly transits to the bottom but without engaging a downshift. I can press repeatedly and it just simply slides downward and returns to the start position without engaging.

When this occurs I have to rock the bike backward and forward until 'something' engages and I can feel the resistance in the clutch pedal to be able to shift. This is annoying at stop lights, dangerous on rocky uphill downshifts.

It is intermittent, does not occur on upshifts or when down shifting from 6->5, 5->4, or 4->3. The only time it has happened has been 3->2 (sometimes) or 2->1 (most often).

The shop is telling me this is 'normal' type behavior, but I don't remember this occurring when the bike was brand new. I'm very careful to ensure the clutch is fully pulled in, and my last oil change was 4k ago with a full synthetic.

Do others see this on their bikes as 'normal' behavior?

I don't view it as normal.

I have experienced what you describe. While I am not mechanically inclined enough to tell you why, my experience has been that it occurs at later in the life of the oil. Are you due for an oil change? If so, or close to it, perhaps an oil change is worth a try.

 

[markjenn]

With any shifting issue, the first thing to check is for lubing of the shift lever pivots and linkage. The S10 has a somewhat common issue where the shaft of the shift lever becomes gummed up and prevents the shift lever from returning to the neutral position between shifts. If it can't move freely, it won't engage the next gear. The solution is to remove the lever and clean/grease the pivot. Be sure to note the positions of any washers/springs. Some riders have to do this almost every oil change to get decent shifting.

If this isn't the problem and the bike is under warranty, I'd take it in and let the dealer mess with it. If they're blowing you off, then escalate. There is a shift rachet mechanism that can be accessed without splitting the motor. If this isn't he problem, you may have a more serious internal issue. Hope not.

BTW, the thing you move with your foot to shift is the shift lever, not a clutch pedal. Cars have clutch pedals, but bikes have clutch levers on the handlebars.

- Mark

 

[tomatocity]

What markjenn said.

I reported the shifter issue in January 2012. No I did not believe the fix was so simple. First I tested it with a shot of WD-40. Bingo it fixed the problem shifting problem but I knew that was short term. Removed the shifter, cleaned, lubed, installed, and all was good. At a Tech Day later that year, Don in Lodi, installed a zerk. Now I do not have to remove the shifter.

 

[WJBertrand]

Clutch pedal???

Any way, it sounds like the shift pedal is not fully returning after the previous downshift. I've had this problem, with the Tenere and other bikes, when I get lazy and do not consciously make sure I've lifted the toe of my boot all the way off the pedal after a down shift (or upshift for that matter). What happens if you lightly lift the pedal to make sure it has reached the top of it's normal return and then try downshifting again?

 

[WookinPaNub]

With any shifting issue, the first thing to check is for lubing of the shift lever pivots and linkage. The S10 has a somewhat common issue where the shaft of the shift lever becomes gummed up and prevents the shift lever from returning to the neutral position between shifts. If it can't move freely, it won't engage the next gear. The solution is to remove the lever and clean/grease the pivot. Be sure to note the positions of any washers/springs. Some riders have to do this almost every oil change to get decent shifting.

If this isn't the problem and the bike is under warranty, I'd take it in and let the dealer mess with it. If they're blowing you off, then escalate. There is a shift rachet mechanism that can be accessed without splitting the motor. If this isn't he problem, you may have a more serious internal issue. Hope not.

BTW, the thing you move with your foot to shift is the shift lever, not a clutch pedal. Cars have clutch pedals, but bikes have clutch levers on the handlebars.

- Mark

Thanks Mark, apologies to all for the wrong terminology - have had my head under the hood of my wrangler all day (manual trans) and didn't switch 'mental gears'

Bike is still at the dealer so I cannot test / maintain the recommendations - but I'll call the dealer tomorrow and go through the items and have them do the dirty work this time and confirm what works / does not. Thanks to all for the thoughts, much appreciated, will update as I know more / have additional details.

 

[AndrewA]

Did a 1000 mile ride through the NC-TN-VA mountains this weekend, and had this exact problem begin occurring about half-way through the trip after a brief off-road stint. It was infuriating, especially at the end of a long day. My mind immediately conjured up all sorts of crazy issues and expensive fixes, etc. Turns out a few squirts of WD-40 completely fixed it. Now that I'm back in the real world, I'll probably pull, clean, and grease the shift lever pivot pin. I was very glad it was a pretty insignificant problem, with a cheap and easy fix. My bet is that the dealer will do this for you as a matter of course, just investigating the problem, and it will magically not occur for them any more. Good luck! (I really hope it's not any more serious than that.)
Andrew

 

[caillou]

BTW, it is a clearly indicated step in the bike maintenance book, so if it has not been done and your maintenance has been "performed" by your dealer, you should question him. If you do your own maintenance, you should read the f**** manual ;D

 

[Checkswrecks]

Do this and let us know how it goes. There's a reason this is a sticky:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=15230.0

 

[WookinPaNub]

BTW, it is a clearly indicated step in the bike maintenance book, so if it has not been done and your maintenance has been "performed" by your dealer, you should question him. If you do your own maintenance, you should read the f**** manual ;D

I get the bike back tomorrow so I'll try the recommended steps then.

Interestingly I actually had RTFM, but looking back at it tonight my eyes had obviously glossed over once I started seeing all the other 'recommended' maintenance items done every 4k miles (checking all the chassis bolts for tightness, inspecting the steering bearing, greasing the centerstand / side stand pivot points, etc.....). For others that may have the same issue, in my manual it's listed on 7-6, #16..... So you're right, it's ::024:: but be sure to bring your coffee mug...

 

[OldRider]

The shift shaft spring could be broken. There were some issues with broken springs with the early S10's. I even bought a spring and put it under the seat as a JIC. The spring on the 14 & 15 models has a new part number and Yamaha has superseded the part number on the 12 & 13 to the new number.

 

[WookinPaNub]

The shift shaft spring could be broken. There were some issues with broken springs with the early S10's. I even bought a spring and put it under the seat as a JIC. The spring on the 14 & 15 models has a new part number and Yamaha has superseded the part number on the 12 & 13 to the new number.

Good to know, the dealer mentioned that as the 'next thing to try' if the cleaning / lubrication thing doesn't fix it.


Completed that cleaning today, I'm fairly certain the assembly tech used the whole bottle of blue loc tite on the shift lever pivot bolt, as I almost bent my allen wrench in half and I think I caused myself an anuerism breaking that free. Given a sudden snowstorm (Colorado weather, go figure) I'll have to test this if there is a break between now and the El Nino winter that's supposed to come, otherwise it won't be until next spring.

 

[fredz43]

Good to know, the dealer mentioned that as the 'next thing to try' if the cleaning / lubrication thing doesn't fix it.


Completed that cleaning today, I'm fairly certain the assembly tech used the whole bottle of blue loc tite on the shift lever pivot bolt, as I almost bent my allen wrench in half and I think I caused myself an anuerism breaking that free. Given a sudden snowstorm (Colorado weather, go figure) I'll have to test this if there is a break between now and the El Nino winter that's supposed to come, otherwise it won't be until next spring.

Just as a point of clarification, the assembly tech at your dealer doesn't install that shift lever pivot bolt, it is put on at the factory. I also noticed that mine was very tight on my 2012 the first time I removed it, not quite as bad on my14.

 

[mercurydog47]

I was pretty new to the manual shifting world and believing I was just not doing things properly. I was very frustrated bringing home my brand new bike at its serious balking at downshifting. Surely, somebody might think that something as basic as a dry shift lever pivot would be perfect on a new bike. Wrong again. After a few days of feeling like I had made a mistake buying the Super Ten I read about the lubrication of the bolt and I did it. Took about 3 minutes to do and the difference was dramatic!! Happy now.

 

[Ramseybella]

Zerk in the Works for me after New Years!

 

[tomatocity]

Welcomes to the masses MercuryDog47. The fix is so simple most don't believe it is the problem.

 

[jbrown]

Welcomes to the masses MercuryDog47. The fix is so simple most don't believe it is the problem.

I'd call it a work-a-round instead of a fix.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Actually it's normal preventive maintenance, per the maintenance manual.

 

[tomatocity]

Actually it's normal preventive maintenance, per the maintenance manual.

Correct.

 

[jbrown]

Actually it's normal preventive maintenance, per the maintenance manual.

I have no problem with stating it as a required maintenance item. And I have no problem performing that simple task. But I think that in itself is a work-a-round for a design or material shortcoming. I have never had a bike before that would require lubing the shift arm pivot before a year has passed to keep shifting normally. As a matter of fact, in 45 years of bike riding, I'd say I've performed that task 8 times. 6 of them on my Tenere.