Instability at high speed...

EricV

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I'm seeing two common items that are relevant; Rear tire balance and steering head bearings. I've experienced both of those and in my case, the rear out of balance was a massive amount, so it showed up at lower speeds and got progressively worse. Enough to make me stop and give the bike an immediate going over. In my case the previous tire had required probably 4 inches of rim weights, (forgotten how much actual weight), to balance. I needed a tire swap in the middle of a rally on a Sunday and the indi shop I used had no balancer, so they just changed the tire. Turned out the new tire was almost perfect w/o weights, but all that left over weight gave me a lot of shudder over 55-65 mph, and was horrible at higher speeds. I stopped, checked air pressure and everything else I could by the side of the road, then cut all of the weights off the wheel. Problem immediately solved!

The recent new rear tire on the OP bike suggests to me that the very first attack on this problem is to have it re-balanced. It may have thrown a weigh, or just been done poorly, or not at all. That the tire is on the bead correctly can be inspected at the same time. Easy and cheap. (Always do the easy and cheap stuff first)

Steering stem bearings tend to be more subtle and I usually notice this as tire wear long before I notice it in 'shudder' at any speed. We have legal 80 mph here, so the occasional 90 mph is not that big of a deal on the right roads. Still, if the owner can do this themselves, it certainly falls into the 'cheap and easy' category too. I would do one thing, ride and test, then try the next.

The comments about luggage, screen size and trunk, while a good thought, are really weave or instability issues, not a cyclic shudder response that the OP is commenting on.

With the email notification feature of the forum broken, who knows when the OP will be back around to read these responses.

Most of the time we encounter a new problem, it can be traced strait back to the very last thing we did. In this case, the new rear tire appears to be the smoking gun. It's also the easiest thing to check and rule out. Telling the shop to use extra care on the balance job because of the issue the rider is experiencing should help too.

I've worn out 12 sets of Heidenua K60s. Most of them on a 2012 Super Tenere. Many required zero weight to balance. A few required huge amounts of weight to balance. Most required just a small amount. Some shops don't usually balance 50/50 or dirt bike tires at all. Or even check them for balance because they believe you'll be off pavement so it won't matter.

I'm not excluding the steering stem bearings, because we know they tend to come loose an are lightly lubed by Yamaha at the factory, but I still suspect the rear tire balance as the primary issue here.
 

mebgardner

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EricV said:
I'm not excluding the steering stem bearings, because we know they tend to come loose an are lightly lubed by Yamaha at the factory, ....
Oh, OK. Thanks for this tip. They tend to work loose. I know how to check for this. Got It!
 

Xt1200zsupertenere

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Tires or/ and preload ....

I hade My K60 scout ... instabil / wobble at high Speed !
Best tried tires att tarmac is Tourance NEXT ... goes like A train at 230 km/ h
 

estrasil

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Thanks so much everyone for responding! Since the last post had been back in 2015, I didn't bother to check back until now, after having a discussion with someone at work that races bikes.
I like the idea that it might be the rear tire balancing/installation. Bike was perfect before, and this started sometime after. I may just not have noticed it right away because of extra weight or slower trips with my girlfriend on the back.
The rear tire seems worn to me as well, much more than I would expect in a fairly short time.
I will see what I can do myself, and otherwise I have an appointment with the shop that did the work on 1/6/18

I will keep you posted with how this progresses. As of now, I still have the annoying 90mph shudder. The mirrors and turn signals vibrate for about 1/3 second at 1 second intervals.

Colleague at work suspected wheel bearings or steering head bearings... especially after mentioning a couple of hard jars where there is a bad transition on the pavement at bridges on my local freeway
 

estrasil

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I took off one of 2 rear wheel weights yesterday to see if the amplitude or frequency or speed at which the vibration happens changes. No change.
 

2daMax

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estrasil said:
I took off one of 2 rear wheel weights yesterday to see if the amplitude or frequency or speed at which the vibration happens changes. No change.
How many total weights are there?

I have seen weights detached itself. Previous bike, found a couple of weights on the floor and found where it would have been have not the stickers gave way.
 

estrasil

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2 weights. I put the weight back. no missing weights (no visible areas where there may have been weights)

This weekend I got to get up to the 90 - 105 mph range with my girlfriend on it... so 185lbs for me, 140lbs for her, and probably another 35 pounds of luggage.
I didn't notice the vibration issue.

Today commuting to work, with just me, it vibrates the same as always right at 90mph.
 

Super08

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Here is a very old video, but the information is as current now as it was then.

https://youtu.be/z3OQTU-kE2s
 

epyles

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That's a great video Super08! Got to have some balls to stay on those bikes just to make a video! :D
 

estrasil

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I have it in the shop. They've taken it for a few rides to start trying to figure it out, and I gave them the good info from this forum.
Between rain and heavy traffic, it is hard to find a good time for them to test it. They will try some more things tomorrow.
Will keep you posted.
 

Dogdaze

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estrasil said:
2 weights. I put the weight back. no missing weights (no visible areas where there may have been weights)

This weekend I got to get up to the 90 - 105 mph range with my girlfriend on it... so 185lbs for me, 140lbs for her, and probably another 35 pounds of luggage.
I didn't notice the vibration issue.

Today commuting to work, with just me, it vibrates the same as always right at 90mph.
I'm going to address this question, as per the video from the 70's, what state in the USA is the speed legal between 90-105mph? Also if you run over 90mph with your weight perhaps that is an issue. Does the bike become unstable at or just over the legal speed limit? Because I may just have a fix for you.........
If you choose to speed well over the limit and I suspect over the bike's design then you may well induce certain characteristics that would not be in the build plan.
 

Don in Lodi

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Dogdaze said:
I'm going to address this question, as per the video from the 70's, what state in the USA is the speed legal between 90-105mph? Also if you run over 90mph with your weight perhaps that is an issue. Does the bike become unstable at or just over the legal speed limit? Because I may just have a fix for you.........
If you choose to speed well over the limit and I suspect over the bike's design then you may well induce certain characteristics that would not be in the build plan.

LOL, 55 is what he should be doing. 65 out of the city limits, 70 on the open interstate. Nobody does 55 tho. ::26:: Bunch'a lawbreakers we are. ::019::


Maybe he has his speedo set to KPH?
 

Dogdaze

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Don in Lodi said:
LOL, 55 is what he should be doing. 65 out of the city limits, 70 on the open interstate. Nobody does 55 tho. ::26:: Bunch'a lawbreakers we are. ::019::


Maybe he has his speedo set to KPH?

Me thinks not! Anyway, if it was set in KPH, then he really has serious issues because a wobble at 50-65mph is a problem.
 

Sierra1

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Dogdaze said:
....what state in the USA is the speed legal between 90-105mph? Also if you run over 90mph with your weight perhaps that is an issue....

Kinda' what I was thinking. I've seen several post from guys that commute, on a regular basis, at 85m.p.h. and above. (hopefully there's not a lot of traffic) I'm 300lbs, and have been well over 100m.p.h. occasionally, without any instability. Once or twice I've been to 100ish with my wife on it, and still, no instability. (wife is NOT a fan of going that fast) And since with the two of us on the bike is right at the 450lb G.V.W.R., I don't THINK that weight is the issue; or at least the only issue. IMHO, near/at 100m.p.h. is not the Tenere's forte. There are better bikes out there for that; I mean, heck, it's a dirt bike.
 

estrasil

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Good News!
the shop took my home made top box off (another variable I probably forgot to mention... that the vibration started sometime after I reinforced my box, which had been ripping at the welds and mounts) and the vibration went away.
I made a 16 x 16 x 16 aluminum box with .06" aluminum

When I initially installed it, I cut a couple sections of 80/20 extrusions as spacers, then mounted a 1/4" aluminum 12 x 12 plate on that, and the box on top of that.

After about a month of riding I notice all sorts of fatigue failures. The box was tearing at the corners of the aluminum base plate, and the welds along the bottom edge were breaking on all 3 welded sides.

Next I sandwiched the box with 2 15 x 15 1/4" aluminum plates, and riveted aluminum angles inside the 3 bottom edges.

The box was now very stiff and if I touched the box at all while on the center stand, the whole motorcycle would move. (Whereas before it was spongy and flimsy)

So I guess after doing this is when the 90mph vibration issue started.

I really like the box.... It's pretty ugly but very practical. When I get to work all my gear fits inside the panniers and top box.

I now will have to see what I can do to still keep the box but eliminate the vibration.

A colleague said his top box is mounted on rubber bushings.... so I guess this issue is addressed that way by commercial top boxes?

This has been a very counterintuitive experience, but I am very glad nothing is wrong with the ST!
 

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WJBertrand

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Whoa! That's a huge and tall top box. NFW there were stability issues at those speeds!Had you mentioned that, or showed that picture first, I lot of us would have immediately pointed to it as the cause. The Yamaha's OM even says not to use both pannier boxes and top boxes together for stability reasons.
 
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