Help please, 18 hours labor? Valve Adjustment & oil, coolant change?

Don in Lodi

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Sounds like they added up each step in the valve check as a complete and separate service. 5hrs for the check, 5hrs to pull the valve cover, 5hrs to change the plugs/pull the coils, 1hrs to pull the air cleaner, 1hr for the coolant change. All those services will be/should be centered on the valve check, that's the deepest in. You have to pull the side cover to pull the tank, exposing the radiator cap for the check, no plus there for access to the radiator. The airbox has to come off with the valve check, no plus there. Maybe a plus .2 hrs to open the box. Not much. The coils have to come off for the valve check, no plus time there. Maybe .2-.3 hrs for each plug, they're not part of the valve check. The valve cover has to come off with the valve check, no plus time there. The coolant system is very linear, pull the drain plug at the pump, the lowest point of the system, crack the cap and every bit of coolant comes shooting out. The plus time there is sucking the reservoir clear, not much time there. Flush? Pour some fresh water in at the top, sheesh.
My numbers are guess-timates, but they fit your quote real well. Again, they should not be adding things together separately, the valve check number trumps all the others, it includes all the steps, except the plugs and part of the coolant change, and maybe something for the filter. You have to have a sit-down face to face with the service writer, you need their breakdown.
 

eemsreno

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Job Code #125000-11 Valve Measurement only [All] 2.2 hours

Job Code #120600-11 Valve Adjustment [all] 3.8 hours.


I'm not saying that I could do it that fast but this is what Yamaha would pay the shop if it was under warranty.
Most shops would double this to the customer.
 

eemsreno

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To replace steering head bearings, just greasing is much easier.

Job Code # 621000-11 2.5 hours
 

RCinNC

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eemsreno said:
Job Code #125000-11 Valve Measurement only [All] 2.2 hours

Job Code #120600-11 Valve Adjustment [all] 3.8 hours.


I'm not saying that I could do it that fast but this is what Yamaha would pay the shop if it was under warranty.
Most shops would double this to the customer.
Is doubling the labor hours fairly standard for service? I know they have about a 100 percent markup on parts, but I didn't know they inflated the labor hours that much beyond their book hours too.

If I didn't already do 99 percent of my own maintenance, I wouldn't need any arguments more compelling than the shop's "double the price of everything" outlook to get me to start turning my own wrench for everything but the really complicated stuff.
 

eemsreno

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Kawasaki service told us once that it should be 1.5 X the flat rate to the customer. I have heard a lot of shops buy flat rate manuals with any amount of mark up that they want to show the customer.
 

Dogdaze

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I guess if that is the going shop rate, I'll be trading the bike in before it is due any major serice where I cannot or will not do........... I know they all have overheads, but c'mon, ripping people off will only get you their money once.
 

magic

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If you don't mind me asking, just what did your bill come to? I know most if not all of my local dealers are not very familiar with these bikes. My first valve check is coming up and I'm not looking forward to it. Might be time to trade.
 

Nig5

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In the UK Alf England mc did all of that except coolant in 6.4 hours, dropping the engine is taking the piss :mad:
 

RCinNC

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If you trade a bike in just because of a valve clearance check, you're going to find that a lot of bikes have an even shorter valve check interval; if you buy a V-Strom 650, their check is at 14,600 (if I recall correctly), and it's as time consuming as an S10. I think KTM's might be even shorter, and just about any overhead cam V or parallel configuration engine will involve removing the fuel tank to get at the cylinder heads (which adds to your labor costs). Like EricV mentioned in another post, the engine on an FJR has to be dropped to adjust (not check) the valves.

For me, the trick is to do as much of the maintenance as you can, so you can save up for when you aren't comfortable with a task (like adjusting shim under bucket valves). I don't mind paying 400 bucks every two years for a valve check, since I haven't been paying anyone in the intervening years for things like oil changes, tire changes, brake pad changes, etc.
 

magic

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It's not that I can't do it, I just don't want to bother with it. I once owned a CBX and did several valve adjustments on that bike. I'm almost 62 years old, worked as a millwright for 37 years, retired at 57 and just don't want to mess with it anymore. I wish I could just take it to a Yamaha dealer and trust them to do a proper job, but as I stated the dealers around here are not very familiar with the S10. I am enjoying my S10, but I'm not that attached to it. I have 2 more seasons on my YES warranty, but will need a valve check before that.
 

Ramseybella

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:mad: No way no how!!
My mechanic is very good at what he does and being independent works on all makes and models.
He never did a Tenere valve check and it took him 4 hours, everything getting to the valve check is right inline with what you asked. Tank off, air box cover off add filter big open space when the Fi is removed to do the head bearing adjustment, pull the plugs to remover cam cover replace after valve check install new plugs..
You're getting burned. :mad:
Breaks are not that hard the rear is ridiculously easy.
With all that my mechanic doesn't really want to do a valve check again, PITA.
 

GearheadGrrrl

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I'm a crippled old lady but I've done the valve checks on two parallel twins myself (BMW F800S and the S10). At my relaxed pace it's an all day job including plugs and air filter replacement, but I've never had to drop the engine. BTW, what dealer was this so I can avoid them?
 

RCinNC

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magic said:
It's not that I can't do it, I just don't want to bother with it. I once owned a CBX and did several valve adjustments on that bike. I'm almost 62 years old, worked as a millwright for 37 years, retired at 57 and just don't want to mess with it anymore. I wish I could just take it to a Yamaha dealer and trust them to do a proper job, but as I stated the dealers around here are not very familiar with the S10. I am enjoying my S10, but I'm not that attached to it. I have 2 more seasons on my YES warranty, but will need a valve check before that.
I hope I didn't imply that you weren't able to do it; that wasn't my intention. I totally get the idea of not wanting to do it any more. I just meant that no bike is free from that sort of aggravation (which you obviously already know), and for me, I'd hate getting rid of a bike every two years (which is about how long it takes me to bounce off the valve check interval) for this sort of maintenance. I usually keep my bikes for years; the shortest was my VStrom at just over 2 years, but I had my Harley for 10.
 

magic

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Hey no problem RC. Good discussion. The OP, DryRider could be looking at a bill here for over $2000. I think $100/hour is about what most dealers charge around here. 18 hours plus parts, oil shop, supplies etc. ouch! Good thing they didn't have to change any shims...or maybe they did. If his bike is a gen 1, it's only worth about $7000 or so. $2000 for a routine maintenance procedure is pretty steep. Heck, there are some leftover 17's around here for $12000. Hopefully he doesn't get billed for that much.
 
R

RonH

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If you take your time and are careful, the valve check takes some time. Not 18hrs probably, but anyone that can do it in 3 or 4hrs is quite amazing. I do my own and actually enjoy it. I would not trust a dealer to even actually do the check. Most of them I know most likely would just say "checked and everything was fine" without even doing the work. They *can* do the "work" pretty quickly this way.
 

RCinNC

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At some point, if you use a mechanic for something, you do have to have some faith that they're doing what you pay them to do. You're kind of hamstrung; you can't go back in the bay to watch them. I still have some police evidence tape laying around; next valve check, maybe I'll put a small piece somewhere on the gas tank, out of the way where they can't see it. That way they'll break the evidence tape when they lift the tank. It's still no guarantee that they did the work, but at least you'll know they lifted the fuel tank.

You can also tell them you want to know the actual clearance on each valve, and want it written down on the work order. If they won't do that, you can always look for a different shop (if there's one available; my closest is 50 minutes, the next closest is just over an hour and they suck, and then it's a two hour drive). I suppose they could lie about the clearances too, but at some point if you're going to use a shop, you have to surrender a little bit of control.
 

Don T

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Just checked the bill from the 40.000 km service on my bike.
Complete service including all fluids and 4 valves needed adjustment.
5½ hours labor.

18 hours is rip-off.
 

Checkswrecks

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RCinNC said:
...I still have some police evidence tape laying around; next valve check, maybe I'll put a small piece somewhere on the gas tank, out of the way where they can't see it. That way they'll break the evidence tape when they lift the tank. It's still no guarantee that they did the work, but at least you'll know they lifted the fuel tank.
...

Strand of hair from the dog and a touch of Elmer's at each end. The elmers washes off and it's much less conspicuous.
;)
 
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