Heidenau tires for the S10
- Thread starter skoron
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EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
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I'm not saying you can't spin the tire. But it was only the rear that I ever noticed any marginalization with. One time, with a tire literally an hour old, it spun when I crossed the paint line in the rain while under acceleration. In the dry, with a well worn K60 set, I could make the TCS light up like a Vegas party night flogging the bike up my favorite local mountain pass. (I wanted an evening pic of the welcome to Arizona sign for a Tag game, which was 20 miles from the house. I had the bags and fuel cell off the bike at the time and rode like a complete hooligan to beat sunset and get the pic. When I got back in ~20 minutes my wife asked me; "didn't you go all the way to the sign?")
Yes, yes I did.
lddave
Active Member
I am on my second rear K60 and I have had several incidents where the rear lost traction in the rain. Coming into a corner during rain, entering interstate in the rain, and exiting the interstate in the rain. These are the worst tires in the rain I have ever used.Once these wear out I am most likely going with a different tire.
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
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Can you elaborate on the conditions? Under hard acceleration or braking? First rain after a dry period? When new or at what point in the wear did you experience these events? I agree you should try something else for your needs.
Tenman
Well-Known Member
I've had 2 K60 rears. No complaints
SkunkWorks
Well-Known Member
They are releasing it in a "Softer" compound for cold and wet conditions....................
https://www.heidenautires.com/new-compound-available-for-the-heidenau-k60-scout/
https://www.heidenautires.com/new-compound-available-for-the-heidenau-k60-scout/
They should call it the K60+
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
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All the noise and less mileage!
Madhatter
Well-Known Member
I blasted down the local toll road running 80mph in a downpour , every little bit the bike (k60 shod ) rear would jump to the left or right . was pretty predictable , and I was off my rocker (there is a reason I'm Madhatter ) 'cause I just don't ride like that but sometimes I do . k60 on wet tar snakes leaned over seemed to slide . maybe not much but you could feel it move . I describe k60s like wearing steel toe boots , eo-7 Dakar felt like I had put on gym shoes , way more responsive . my complaint with the Dakar's is at speed crossing over center line the back would do a wiggle . some tires seem more prone to that than others .... overall I liked the eo-7 Dakar's better than the k60s . k60s are very stable great off road ,kinda loud at speed , and ok in wet , but wet and tar snakes not a fan . eo-7 great grip everywhere on or off road , not scary when wet , a better tire except at speed when crossing uneven paving , hate the wiggle . Shinko 705 best street tire for the money in my mind , not the best off road .... but no wiggle ..... Pirelli scorpion STL look good , but are very loud at speed , can't wait to be rid of them .
Madhatter
Well-Known Member
want to lose your hearing , k60 front , pirelli scorpion rear....... waaaahaaahaaahaaaahaaaa........
The Anakee 3 was the worst howler I've put on the bike. Between that and being able to ride past the rubber on the shoulder I'll never have another.
The two or three sets of K60s I had could get really slippery in the rain. Especially commuting with a fresh afternoon thunderstorm bringing the oil out of the pavement. It was bad enough when they were worn and losing the round shape that I would groove them with a dremel.
The two or three sets of K60s I had could get really slippery in the rain. Especially commuting with a fresh afternoon thunderstorm bringing the oil out of the pavement. It was bad enough when they were worn and losing the round shape that I would groove them with a dremel.
The noise complaint is very common on the A3. I always ride with earplugs and have never had it bother me. I'm curious what do you mean by "ride past the rubber"? I used mine right to the edge, but never had the feeling that I was beyond it...
I did find that both the E07+ and the Tractionator GPS have a 'shimmy' at certain low speed where you get a vibration from the tread, which I always find just a touch disturbing and bothers me (vs. say the noise).
lddave
Active Member
Been raining all night left hotel for home downshifted one gear coming into corner at probably 50 mph back end stepped out.
The other two times were been raining for awhile so no it was not oil on top of the rain runoff . Accelerating to enter interstate tire lost traction I was not gassing on it hard since the road was wet. Same day less then hour later exiting interstate costing down hit water running across the road and back tire lost traction . Tire was about 3000 miles old. I like the tire in the dry but not in the wet . I have experience riding 50/50 tires I used them on my KTM 950 before getting the Tenere In the wet this tire is as bad as a wet metal grate bridge on the way to Alaska.
Member Dallara first reported on this back in 2013 in th post below, then I and others had the same experience. Lean all the way over in a curve, start applying throttle, and the rear end would start to slide out. The way these reports seemed to taper off a couple of years ago I'm starting to wonder if Michelin didn't quietly change the A3 molds to increase how far around the shoulder the rubber goes.
I'm with you on the K-60's. I know people love 'em, but just about no matter where I go I've got to ride a bunch of pavement miles just to *GET* to fun off-road stuff, and I don't want to compromise the handling performance of my bike on tarmac just for a few minutes, or even and hour or so of better off-road performance... Only then to turn around and have to ride back home on pavement. Like it or not, where I live I'll always have to ride a lot more on pavement than on dirt, so why would I want to compromise handling prowess on the surface I spend at least 85%-90% of my riding time on for a bit better off-road performance? The math just doesn't work... Base my tire choice on 5% to 15% of my riding miles> Or base it on where I spend 85% to 95% of my riding?
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Besides, I rode flat tracks, MX, enduros, and hare scrambles enough that I can get along OK off-road with street-biased rubber. Sure, it's more work, and you have to be careful of surface conditions, line selection, depth of soil, etc., but what else is new? Everything is a compromise, so it seems the place I ride the least should be compromised the most, and vice versa.
And like you, the unfortunate truth of riding in my area is that there are a *LOT* of straight roads to get to the curvy, twisty, snaky, fun ones... Hence my rear tire can often get squared off, too. Hell, it's over 200 miles from here just to get to the real beginning of the Texas Hill Country!!! Doesn't help that I like to ride long distances on my Super Tenere, either. All too often that requires droning a lot on less than challenging pavement, so more squaring of the tire. All I can do is try to bevel the hell out of it, and get it back into rounded tread profile once I get to the squiggly bits!
Riding position? Well, first let me say this... Most of my WERA road racing years were spent on big, Jap superbikes. Endurance racing modded Kawasaki Z-1's. Sprint and endurance racing DOHC Honda CB750F and CB900F's, and even a few races on Honda CBX's!!! Most all had 19' fronts and 18" rear wheels, and I was just exiting the motorcycle road racing scene when 16" fronts and stiff frames were coming online. I rode a some WERA Formula II and III on two-stroke road racers, too, but in those days they had 18" wheels at both ends. Point is that big hoop front wheels don't distress me in the slightest... I may even like 'em better. Sure, they inherently steer slower, but then they're far more stable entering, during, and exiting the corner. They just take a bit more muscle, along with some understanding of their characteristics. One of the reasons I like 'em is that they pretty much negate the need for any sort of steering damper, either on-road or off. As long as you keep 'em rolling a big 19" hoop is pretty hard to deflect off-line.
Anyway, I never hung off a bunch. I get over the front like I should, elbows up, over the tank, and the inside shoulder dropped, head rotated up and turned in to look *WAY* ahead and around the corner, eyes level with the horizon, etc., etc. A vast majority of the time I don't move my a** around too much on the seat... Like I said, I just roll my upper body in and drop the inside shoulder. However, if the the fun reel starts getting turned up to 78-speed I may slide my butt off, but even then it's just an ever so tiny amount. I was taught to get the thing turned pretty quick, so for the most part I dime it a bit... Run it in hard on the brakes, trail them in to the apex as I get rolled in, get it turned, then picked it up and drive out. It's during this "pick it up" stage, and just before, that the Anakee 3 gives up on me and slides away. I've tried picking it up sooner, but that doesn't seem to help enough. Seems like once it lets loose over on the edge it takes it being completely picked up before it recovers.
Now mind you... I *NEVER* ride at 10/10ths on the street. I just won't. These days I ride at about 75 to 80% of what I feel like my pavement limits are. Maybe 85% if the going gets fun with the right folks (or I'm by myself), but I try to never exceed 90% of what I feel like I have in the talent/skill tank - ever - on the street. It's not worth it, and I like having at least that much in reserve for the unexpected. I used to run at 100% on the race track, and did it for years, and that was enough. Now the trick is to always get back home, period. No clipped apex is worth sheet time in the hospital these days, or worse.
I have to also admit that I'm not one of those who likes to drag things. When I was learning road racing the goal was to go as fast as possible *WITHOUT* dragging any parts of your body. Sure, my Bates leathers had velcro knee sliders on 'em, but they were thin pieces of leather in those days, and the only time you drug your knee was saving a slide or a tucked front end. You used your knee to unload the tire and let it get hooked back up, not to try and be stylish. If you can get most all of your real actual turning done while the front's still loaded then ground clearance is never really ever an issue.
OK, now maybe you have an idea of where I come from... And basically, for me, the Anakee 3's let loose right at the transition where I am picking up the throttle at the apex, and I'm just starting to pick the bike up from max lean.
As for pics of the Anakee 3's... The only ones I have are from no too long after I put 'em on. I think they had only 150-200 miles on 'em, maybe 300 max, in these pics...
First, the front:
And here's the rear....
Not sure those help ya' much since they're so new in the pics, but they're all I got right now. Maybe I can get some more once my ECU gets back next week... ECUnleashed wrote me today to tell me my ECU had been "delayed" and wouldn't go out today, damn it!!!
Dallara
~
While we are off the Heidenau topic and on the A3s, regardless of whether the shoulder has changed, those still have the rain grooves which are absolutely as bad as street tires off road. Plus, they get significantly narrower as they wear and people still comment about the howl so I'm still not buying another set, especially with so many newer and better choices available.
This was NOT a place where an adventure bike tire should have totally quit.
The rain grooves fill instantly and you're left to push.
Showing how the grooves get worse/narrower with wear.
How does the '70 compare? I've heard varying reviews of it as well...While we are off the Heidenau topic and on the A3s, regardless of whether the shoulder has changed, those still have the rain grooves which are absolutely as bad as street tires off road. Plus, they get significantly narrower as they wear and people still comment about the howl so I'm still not buying another set, especially with so many newer and better choices available.
This was NOT a place where an adventure bike tire should have totally quit.
The rain grooves fill instantly and you're left to push.
Showing how the grooves get worse/narrower with wear.
I've never had an A3 in wet dirt, but can see that it would be useless
Thank you for finding that and pointing me to it! Very interesting!
You're right, something must have changed because that is not behaviour that I've noticed, and I ride the tight corners 'motard style' i.e. with the bike leaned way over, my foot out and me more 'on-top' of it. The E07 does very poorly with that style of riding, the Tractionator GPS isn't much better, I've never had a slip on the A3 I ran in 2016.
Here is a shot after doing 'rattle snake grade' from Oregon into Washington, a super twisty road. We had been through some nice gravel before, which shows the 'cleaning' of tight corners nicely.
I wish tire manufacturers were a bit more transparent when they make changes
Anyway, back to the K60
B
ballisticexchris
Guest
They should call it the K60+
The new K60+ tire is going to be horrible!! This new tire should offer better traction, shorter braking distance, not stepping out in the corners, better rain grip, etc.
It is not what the average Super Tenere rider wants. It's all about no noise and how long it lasts. Traction and performance mean nothing. And god forbid a rider who is going to get his hands dirty swapping a tire during a ride.
Just as the E07+ was a failure, so this tire will be as well. When are these tire manufacturers going to understand that riders do not care about grip? Produce a tire made out of hard plastic that will last in excess of 20,000 miles. This is what riders are looking for.
Comparing this to my old photos, they definitely changed the mold to give more shoulder rubber.Thank you for finding that and pointing me to it! Very interesting!
You're right, something must have changed because that is not behaviour that I've noticed, and I ride the tight corners 'motard style' i.e. with the bike leaned way over, my foot out and me more 'on-top' of it. The E07 does very poorly with that style of riding, the Tractionator GPS isn't much better, I've never had a slip on the A3 I ran in 2016.
Here is a shot after doing 'rattle snake grade' from Oregon into Washington, a super twisty road. We had been through some nice gravel before, which shows the 'cleaning' of tight corners nicely.
I wish tire manufacturers were a bit more transparent when they make changes
Anyway, back to the K60
skoron
Member
As an update I had the local Yammie dealer spoon on a new set of Shinko 705's (had to order). This will be the third set on the S10 and currently running them on the R100GS. Was hoping to try something new but price and proven performance just pulled me back. Amazing how much better the turn in is with the new tires. Too much commuting had left the old pair somewhat flat. Fun times again (for at least another 8000 miles or so )
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