HARD START

jrusell

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Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
460
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
The video clarified for me, during and before the start, the butterflies are blocked and only controlled by the electric servo. But after the start ..... the butterflies are still controlled by the servo? ... or do they come to be controlled by the hand throttle? ..... I ask because I do not find sense in the union between the axis of butterflies and wire
View attachment 69265
I probably didn't explain it clear enough on this vid, but in simple terms this rod is your connection to the return cable of your throttle.
So on your old school carbs or a normal fuel injected bike that is not fly by wire your have a push pull cable setup.
We have the same but with the ECU controlling the pull we need some sort of safety or push cable connection to close the plates in case of emergency.
This lever and it's plate and tab serve this purpose.


Starting to get far off the original topic but They are always controlled by the ecu. You imput your throttle, the ECU decides what you get.
Take a look at the throttle map for our bike. Page 2, Post #22 of this thread shows T-Mode, S -Mode and some other maps. Throttle position across the top, RPM down the left side, the filled in area is the throttle plate position as commanded by the ECU. Lots of interesting info and really helps you understands how things work. Compare back and forth and you will see in T-mode you ask for 100% throttle , but the max you will get is 52.9% open with the restricted maps. Oh yeah and remember each gear has it's own map, so lots to play with if you are so inclined.
 

Jlq1969

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Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
1,749
Location
Argentina
I probably didn't explain it clear enough on this vid, but in simple terms this rod is your connection to the return cable of your throttle.
So on your old school carbs or a normal fuel injected bike that is not fly by wire your have a push pull cable setup.
We have the same but with the ECU controlling the pull we need some sort of safety or push cable connection to close the plates in case of emergency.
This lever and it's plate and tab serve this purpose.


Starting to get far off the original topic but They are always controlled by the ecu. You imput your throttle, the ECU decides what you get.
Take a look at the throttle map for our bike. Page 2, Post #22 of this thread shows T-Mode, S -Mode and some other maps. Throttle position across the top, RPM down the left side, the filled in area is the throttle plate position as commanded by the ECU. Lots of interesting info and really helps you understands how things work. Compare back and forth and you will see in T-mode you ask for 100% throttle , but the max you will get is 52.9% open with the restricted maps. Oh yeah and remember each gear has it's own map, so lots to play with if you are so inclined.
I appreciate the information. It is perfectly explained. Thank you so much.
 

regder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
466
Location
Toronno
Let me add something else that has not been mentioned yet, the intake air pressure (MAP) sensor.

My S10 didn’t want to start up after it’s winter sleep. Threw in a new set of plugs and an air filter and it started after a bunch of cranking. Still hiccuped a bit on every startup, but it did start. As if the fired for a split second, cranked for another second or two and then started. Besides that I had a consistent excess vibration, not terrible, maybe 10-15% worse than normal. Enough to notice, but not bad enough that it was an obvious issue Or possibly even outside of the norm.

Thankfully the sensor failed outright after about 3-4k km of riding, causing the engine light to come on and the bike to stall repeatedly. Replaced the sensor and she’s back to her normal self. No hiccup on startup and just the normal S10 vibrations.

Sensor is located on the left side of the throttle bodies and can probably be disconnected without removing the tank to check.
 

raikk

New Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
9
Location
Suceava - Romania
So, my 2011 s10 pulled a fast one on me today.
Tried to start it after 3 months of winter sleep.
It had some chokes the first time, started for a second but it died.
Second time it started righ up, worked fine for about 10 seconds, but as I was rolling it out of the garage, it started losing RPMs and in 1 or 2 seconds died. Didn't want to start since.
It cranks ok, the battery is one year old and i've been charging it. Tried the WOT thing and it shows promise but it just doesn't wanna start.
I'm thinking the gas just went bad as it started for 10 seconds and then just dropped the RPMs and stalled.
You guys think I should replace the gas ? Or keep trying with WOT ? Battery is charging right now.
 

Tenman

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Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
2,102
Location
Natchez Ms USA
The last time mine did that. I did the wide open thing. Didn’t start. I don’t know if I got lucky or what. But I worked the throttle back and forth wide open the second time and it fired up almost instantly.
 

Sierra1

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Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
14,812
Location
Joshua TX
I'd give it one more try. But, don't touch the throttle for a minute or two after it starts, let it warm a touch. The last time mine did what you describe, I had twitched the throttle as it was starting. . . . just like I did on my past bikes. The Tenere does not like that. While you were pushing it out, you may have manipulated the throttle.

I also learned to keep the starter button pushed until it really starts. If it coughs, and dies. . . . it doesn't like that either. I used to release the starter as soon as I heard it catch; learned not to. It could be the gas, but fuel injected bikes seem to be less picky. Unless you started with actual bad gas.
 

Skytower

Active Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
172
Location
Norfolk, VA
Give it a small psst of starting fluid, in the airbox. (NOT a psssssst). If it fires for a second and dies, drain and put in new gas. If not, you have a spark issue.
Gas is only good for about 3 months. It turns to varnish and cloggs orifices. Really bad for carbs, still not great for injectors. It also loses most of its volatile components. Fuel stabilizers delay some of the problems.
 

raikk

New Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
9
Location
Suceava - Romania
So...just came in from the garage.
First thing I did was check the fuses in the two little boxes near the battery. All ok.
I then started to prepare to lift the tank up and get to the air box and do the starter fluid thing and try cranking again with wot. But then..a tiny little brain fairy told me.. "dude..just try starting it one more time, just do it. try it, common, try it". So I pun the battery in, kill switch off, turned ignition on, kill switch on, wide open throttle, and BAM, it started righ away. No chokes, no sounds...nothing. Went purring about like nothing happened.
I swear man... this bike... o_O:)
 

cbecker

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Portland, OR
Hello from the PNW - I just purchased a used 2014 and am trying to soak up as much info as I can about the hard start issue. I believe I have a grasp on the general correct startup sequence, never starting it without letting it warm up & what to do if I encounter a hard start.

I'm wondering under what "conditions" it's OK to mess with the menu settings - from the standpoint of trying to prevent a hard start scenario, should I only do this while the bike is running? Key ON, ignition OFF? Key ON, ignition ON but not running? Or does it really matter?

Sorry if this has been answered in this thread, but I'm still working my way through it.
 

sandro1973

Active Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
121
Location
Portugal
Hello from the PNW - I just purchased a used 2014 and am trying to soak up as much info as I can about the hard start issue. I believe I have a grasp on the general correct startup sequence, never starting it without letting it warm up & what to do if I encounter a hard start.

I'm wondering under what "conditions" it's OK to mess with the menu settings - from the standpoint of trying to prevent a hard start scenario, should I only do this while the bike is running? Key ON, ignition OFF? Key ON, ignition ON but not running? Or does it really matter?

Sorry if this has been answered in this thread, but I'm still working my way through it.

I'm still a novice with this bike...but when you turn the Key to ON with the Ignition in OFF, it won't pressurize the fuel pump. It might be the best option if you just want to mess with the menu settings.
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,516
Location
Ventura, CA
I'm still a novice with this bike...but when you turn the Key to ON with the Ignition in OFF, it won't pressurize the fuel pump. It might be the best option if you just want to mess with the menu settings.
Yes, I’ve done this a lot, so far it has not caused a hard start situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Sierra1

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Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
14,812
Location
Joshua TX
I'm still a novice with this bike...but when you turn the Key to ON with the Ignition in OFF, it won't pressurize the fuel pump. It might be the best option if you just want to mess with the menu settings.
Do you mean the "kill switch" in the off position?
 

cbecker

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Portland, OR
Thanks for the answers - by "Ignition" I also meant "Kill Switch", and also realized this had been answered by about page 2, which I somehow forgot. It's taken me days to work my way through this thread!
 

StefanOnHisS10

Converting fuel into heat, noise and a bit motion
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The Netherlands, Friesland.
HARD/NOT STARTING 2012 TENERE
After 4 days I finally got my 2012 Tenere started.
4 days ago I rode it around town went to the gym and then to the store. It is my everyday transportation as I do not have a car.
I came home and parked it. The next morning, after a high 20's temp night I came out to ride it to the gym and it would not start; it cranked over with the same gusto as usual, gave an extremely pathetic little pop and then not even a hope of catching and running. I tried the WOT and that didn't effect it in any way. I tried the kill switch off, turn the bike on and then turn on the kill switch...let it crank over and over...let the starter cool....let it crank over and over again....let starter cool....ad nauseum....nothing....
let it sit over night....tried again next day....same situation....not a hint of firing off....I could smell fuel though.....so with kill switch off, turn ignition on, kill switch back on, WOT again..... crank crank crank.... nothing...
next day......same same...nothing.....got on these forums and read....came across a REMOVE #4 EFI FUSE AND CRANK IT OVER, so I tried that...I had to use a curved forceps to pull the fuse
because of my crash bars/aux. light being in the way..... I cranked it and kept cranking....let the starter cool....cranked some more...maybe 5 times I had to let the starter cool between attempts, but then it tried to start!
I put the fuse back in and cranked again...it tried to start and died....then wouldn't catch again....so I pulled the fuse again and kept up the routine a couple more times....
reinserted the fuse again- cranked it over and finally it started!! - some whitish smoke came out the tail pipe over the next 3-5 minutes.
I keep it on a battery tender each night and lucky for that because the battery would have went to nothing after all the attempts I had to make....
This morning I was actually in the extremely unpleasant thought mode of how I was going to get it to the shop and then I read these forums and tried the fuse trick....
I just wanted to pass this experience on to anyone else who might be experiencing this same trouble.
Wow easy Tom, maybe be a gentleman and introduce yourself in the “new member” section. It would be appreciated if you update your profile too.
I am sorry to hear about your problems but blasting into an ongoing conversation and screaming your problems isn’t the way. We’ve got a lot of problems with internet rodents and want to keep this forum clean and civil.

You’ve got 24H.
 

Tom'sTenere

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
4
Location
Washington State
Wow easy Tom, maybe be a gentleman and introduce yourself in the “new member” section. It would be appreciated if you update your profile too.
I am sorry to hear about your problems but blasting into an ongoing conversation and screaming your problems isn’t the way. We’ve got a lot of problems with internet rodents and want to keep this forum clean and civil.

You’ve got 24H.
Sorry for that...I didn't know I was supposed to go introduce myself in the new member section.
I guess I was still a bit delirious about my motorcycle finally starting and just wanted to share my experience with some other unfortunate person right away..... I have calmed down now.
Also, I thought I was starting my own conversation....not blasting into someone elses....my sincere apologies to whomever I have offended by blasting into their conversation.
Maybe you can educate me on which part of my post was not "clean and civil", so I do not make that mistake again.
 
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