HARD START

dcstrom

Active Member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,006
Likes
5
Just thought I'd summarize my recent experience here. Full story

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=24487.0

I had a problem with engine dying soon after starting or just not starting. This seemed to have something to do with the sidestand switch (error code 19) - it started happening in the days after very heavy rain (although I wasn't out riding in it!). I persisted daily for a week, every time I was able to restart the bike by switching off and back on. I was considering cutting wires to bypass the sidestand switch, but first thought I'd try drowning the switch in WD40. Seems to be fixed! No reoccurence in the 6 days since then, and almost 2000 miles covered in that time.

Now I'm in Ireland and for a change I have a nice cosy shed to store the bike. First night in the shed, it wouldn't start the next morning. Hmm maybe it's used to being out in the open! So now I didn't know if this was a return of the sidestand switch problem, or a regular hard start. Two differences - now the check engine light wasn't flashing when trying to start, and checking diags revealed no new Code 19 error. So just a regular hard start then? Happened at odd times during the 140,000 miles, first time at about 5000 miles I had to charge the battery twice before it finally started. But that was before we had community knowledge on how to solve this. Since then any time I've detected a possible hard start I've just gone WOT and it's started every time. Not this time though.

I took the next logical step and removed the FI fuse. Turning over then it gave a couple of coughs, which let me know I was on the right track at least. If it was some other electronics problem other than a rich mixture, it probably wouldn't have done that. Fuse back in, didn't start, out again, cough, back in, no start, out, cough, back in, battery failing now... it fired. Woo Hoo!

So a difficult hard start, but glad it wasn't related to my previous Code 19 or any other electronics issues.
 

Ramseybella

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
2,837
Likes
54
Location
Los Alamos, new Mexico
dcstrom said:
Just thought I'd summarize my recent experience here. Full story

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=24487.0

I had a problem with engine dying soon after starting or just not starting. This seemed to have something to do with the sidestand switch (error code 19) - it started happening in the days after very heavy rain (although I wasn't out riding in it!). I persisted daily for a week, every time I was able to restart the bike by switching off and back on. I was considering cutting wires to bypass the sidestand switch, but first thought I'd try drowning the switch in WD40. Seems to be fixed! No reoccurence in the 6 days since then, and almost 2000 miles covered in that time.

Now I'm in Ireland and for a change I have a nice cosy shed to store the bike. First night in the shed, it wouldn't start the next morning. Hmm maybe it's used to being out in the open! So now I didn't know if this was a return of the sidestand switch problem, or a regular hard start. Two differences - now the check engine light wasn't flashing when trying to start, and checking diags revealed no new Code 19 error. So just a regular hard start then? Happened at odd times during the 140,000 miles, first time at about 5000 miles I had to charge the battery twice before it finally started. But that was before we had community knowledge on how to solve this. Since then any time I've detected a possible hard start I've just gone WOT and it's started every time. Not this time though.

I took the next logical step and removed the FI fuse. Turning over then it gave a couple of coughs, which let me know I was on the right track at least. If it was some other electronics problem other than a rich mixture, it probably wouldn't have done that. Fuse back in, didn't start, out again, cough, back in, no start, out, cough, back in, battery failing now... it fired. Woo Hoo!

So a difficult hard start, but glad it wasn't related to my previous Code 19 or any other electronics issues.
How many miles you have on this bike? :question:
Have you thought the Fuel pump may be needing a new filter or a replacement?
 

dcstrom

Active Member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,006
Likes
5
>How many miles you have on this bike? :question:
>Have you thought the Fuel pump may be needing a new filter or a replacement?

140,000 miles - fuel pump filter was full at 100,000 miles (though amazingly the bike still ran ok), so replaced then. Should still be ok, especially since fuel has probably been cleaner in the 40,000 since then.
 

olekaw

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
1
Likes
2
Location
Highway 61
Just a quick thank you to the Forum and this thread. I have a 2016 ES model and recently turned over 24,000 miles. It needed the valves checked and I wasn't looking forward to the challenge. I have adjusted valves on previous bikes ( KLR, DRZ, vStrom ) but the Tenere looked like a bigger challenge. I read the manual and everything on the forums before starting. There is just so much stuff to remove before you even get to the dreaded Valve cover, total PIA. Got the cover out, checked clearances, intakes OK, exhausts all on the low side with one below spec by couple points. Buggar! Got the cams out, swapped some shims and was able to trade some shims at the friendly local bike shop.
Tried to reset the CCT,,, tried and tried and tried. Even took it to my dealer where I bought the bike, they looked at it like they had never seen one before, maybe if I paid them there $120/hr labor fee they would have better advice but I just wanted a hint how to do it. Ended up buying a Graves, probably better after all. Reassembly went OK with the usual hiccups, having the chain jump on tightening but I got it together with everything lined up. Fought the valve cover back in, PIA, throttle bodies, air box, battery back. Try to start it and it won't fire,, WTF. Try it again, nothing! Wondering what I might have done wrong. Go back to the forum and start reading and come across "Hard Start" topic.
Followed the suggestions and it came to life. I had to pull the #4 fuse to get it to fire and WOT. So, thanks for the knowledge shared by everyone. When problems arise it's nice to have a resource like this.
Olekaw
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
59
Likes
70
I've just experienced this with my 2014 non-ES.
I purchased this bike from an owner in Texas at the end of September, with 7900 miles on it...........It now has 9200 miles on it.
Since September, and any time I've taken it out, I've never had a problem starting the bike normally.
I always use the kill-switch to shut the engine down, then turn the bike electrics off with the key (always habit for me, and good practice to do so)
To start the bike I always turn the key on, wait for the gauges to come on, then start the engine with the kill-switch. I never touch the throttle while cranking the engine.
There have been a few occasions where the bike sat for a few weeks, or even a month without starting it. Never had a problem.
I've rode it to work a couple times when the morning temps have been in the high-30s. Never had a problem.
I think there have been a few instances of me releasing the start switch prematurely before the engine caught. Always fired right up when I made a second attempt.
I have even started a cold engine, let it run for 20-30 seconds, then shut it off. Always started right up the next time with no issue.
The last time I had the bike out was last Saturday. Took my son Logan out for a ride. Got fuel close to the house, then rode for about an hour and a half, then stopped for lunch. Just as we were about to leave, a couple guys in a pickup truck were admiring the bike. They asked me a bunch of questions about it, and said one of them was interested in getting one. He asked me if I would start it up for him so he could hear it, so I did. Revved it a couple times, and then shut it off. They left, and we hopped on the bike and fired it right up, and headed for home. (about 45-minute ride)
Fast-forward to yesterday....................It was a relatively nice day, with temps in the mid-50s. I drove my Jeep home on my lunch-break with the intention of riding the Super-Ten back to work, and then going for a ride after work............I get home, back the bike out of the garage, put all my gear on, close the garage door and attempt to start the bike.......
Use my normal starting procedure, and it just cranks and cranks and cranks.............I turned the switch off, the key off, and wait a minute.
Attempt number two...........Same result.
Next attempt I do the same procedure except hold the throttle wide-open...............This time it popped a couple times but never fired over. Still just cranks and cranks.
I tried different combinations of this for about 10 minutes, until the battery was starting to not want to turn the engine over very fast anymore, and the gauge cluster was turning off and on.
I pushed the bike back into the garage, plugged in my battery maintainer, and drove my dejected self back to work in the Jeep.
A few hours later, after arriving home from my work-day, I unplugged the battery maintainer and tried again......................No luck! Same result.
Plugged the maintainer back in and left it for a full day, until today.
Got home from work and unplugged the maintainer (it was reading that the battery was fully charged)
I took the side cover off so I could measure battery voltage. Was reading 12.8 volts before I started.
I first tried to crank the engine without touching the throttle. I cranked it for about 3-4 seconds while watching the voltmeter. The bike did not fire up, and the voltage was around 10.8 while cranking.............Battery is still good.
Next I tried holding the throttle WFO, and after about 3 seconds of cranking it roared to life! Belched a ton of black smoke out of the exhaust!
Was definitely flooded..................
I let it run until the fan came on............twice. Revved it a bunch of times, and it sounds healthy and normal.
Voltage at idle is around 14.10 with no accessories on, and 14.04 with the heated grips on High.
When the cooling fan comes on, the charging voltage at idle is around 13.8...................Charging system functioning perfectly.
I ran it until the fan came on again and immediately hit the kill-switch. (the fan runs for a long time because you are no longer circulating coolant) Battery voltage stabilizes around 11.6 with the engine off, and the fan and lights still on. I let it sit like this for around a minute, then hit the start button with everything still on. It cranks and fires right up with no issue!
I'm going to chalk this up to a rare (hopefully very rare) instance of the dreaded "Cold Flooding" no-start issue that many people seem to be having. It is definitely not just limited to the "Gen-1" bikes.
I have a new battery on my radar, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with this one? As far as I can tell, it is the original one that came with the bike (Yuasa YTZ12S) so its 5 years old now..................Not much more life could be expected from it I suppose.
 

Juan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
1,272
Likes
58
Location
Malta
Your statement "the gauge cluster was turning off and on" caught my attention. Even with a weak battery, this shouldn't happen. Dimming while cranking perhaps yes - but not on and off. Unless you meant dimming, I would check the connections to the gauge cluster.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
71
Likes
33
Location
Europe
Your statement "the gauge cluster was turning off and on" caught my attention. Even with a weak battery, this shouldn't happen. Dimming while cranking perhaps yes - but not on and off. Unless you meant dimming, I would check the connections to the gauge cluster.
actually not really , it can happen when battery is really bad plus also depends on electronics implementation, which can be cut off under certain voltage level.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
59
Likes
70
Your statement "the gauge cluster was turning off and on" caught my attention. Even with a weak battery, this shouldn't happen. Dimming while cranking perhaps yes - but not on and off. Unless you meant dimming, I would check the connections to the gauge cluster.
It only started doing this after repeated cranking attempts, when the battery was getting really weak. This is the point where I stopped attempting and just plugged the battery in.
 

Cyrus

We Dream the Imposible !!
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
92
Likes
10
Location
Here,California
last week I had the wire harness recall done on my 2012 S10 done, rode it home, sat for a week . It wont start now, it cranks over and huffs and puffs but wont start. Is does something to do with stupid dealer work or ......? Any ideas folks?
 
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
60
Likes
46
Location
Lawrence Ks.
I have had the hard starting problem only once on my 2015 ES. When mine didn't start after a few cranks I immediately went to WOT and it started. But could tell it was already flooded by the way it came to life. I guess what I'm saying is that if a F.i. bike or anything that is F.I. doesn't start right up you had better go to WOT because they are always pumping fuel unlike are old carbureted friends of yesterday. To this day I still don't know why she didn't want to start for me on that morning
 

Juan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
1,272
Likes
58
Location
Malta
I replaced my OEM Yuasa (YTZ12S) which was 4 years old with a Yuasa YTZ14S on two occasions. The first replacement (14S) lasted only 6 months. It must have been badly treated by the online supplier (hence the fantastic price!). Got another 14S from the shop and this has been serving my wonderfully. No complaints whatsoever. More power than the 12S.
 
Top Bottom