Had a lowside, no help from TCS?

[Madhatter]

trail braking is where you trail (use) the rear brake only..... if the forks are compressed then it is not trail braking , preloading by braking and compressing the forks is a valid technique as is but different trail technique.

 

[WJBertrand]

trail braking is where you trail (use) the rear brake only..... if the forks are compressed then it is not trail braking , preloading by braking and compressing the forks is a valid technique as is but different trail technique.

Nope. Trail braking is braking while leaning / entering into the corner, it’s not exclusive to using the rear brake only, in fact it’s more about the front brake than the rear:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking

Note the references cited for this article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Jlq1969]

I would like to see a video of how a tcs of ultra-modern bikes, acts in a curve, with an important degree of inclination (tcs or any new control system). If someone has the link, I would be grateful. But for now, in my particular case, if on a curve, I can not correct the oversteer, I prefer to let go of the motorcycle, fall to the ground and the motorcycle moves away faster than me ... above a system of control, try to correct the trajectory, and a lash occurs and I pass over the motorcycle
I had a bad experience with the ESP in a car, in a curve, the correction took me by surprise, made me move toward to the opposite hand, I had it under control, but the ESP knocked me out
I tried again, but now I was waiting for the correction, it was not a bad experience anymore. Surprise is the problem

 

[ballisticexchris]

Trippy thing about trail braking is until a few years ago I never knew I was doing it all along since learning to ride. When I was younger and a lot dumber it really saved me from overshooting corners.

Here in Southern CA there is one of the few places in the country with multiple decreasing radius turns (Palomar Mountain). I have went down that mountain all the way in neutral. This is where trail braking really comes into play. It's amazing how much we use our throttle for turning.

 

[Madhatter]

wjbertrand, we will dis agree , with respect..... I cant be right about everything but I can be stubborn all day long....just ask my wife.

 

[munsonbw]

After reading more about trail braking I am glad it was mentioned here. While I have been riding for many years, I don't ride hard but there are many times where I wanted to just drag the brakes a bit coming into the turn. Its that mental thing - what if... I was told/read when I first started not to brake in turns. Seeing a diagram on what trail braking looks like in terms of % braking at various points in the turn makes perfect sense.

Great discussion here.

Thanks!

 

[Jlq1969]

I think the post, step of “accelerate in corner” to “Braking in curve” ... for braking in curve, I found videos of how the MSC acts when one "brakes" in curve

 

[fac191]

I think the post, step of “accelerate in corner” to “Braking in curve” ... for braking in curve, I found videos of how the MSC acts when one "brakes" in curve

Regardless of whats been said here and i respect it, braking into a corner encourages you to go in faster than you ought to. Safe riding is always better than fast riding. Save these techniques for when you really need them.

 

[WJBertrand]

Regardless of whats been said here and i respect it, braking into a corner encourages you to go in faster than you ought to. Safe riding is always better than fast riding. Save these techniques for when you really need them.

That’s a valid point but it’s still a crucial skill in the event you’ve misjudged an unfamiliar corner, and if we’re being honest with ourselves, we’ve all been there. Possessing the skill can be the difference between a non-event and running wide onto a shoulder, or worse, into the opposing lane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WJBertrand]

wjbertrand, we will dis agree , with respect..... I cant be right about everything but I can be stubborn all day long....just ask my wife.

No worries Madhatter, it’s not me you’re disagreeing with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ballisticexchris]

That’s a valid point but it’s still a crucial skill in the event you’ve misjudged an unfamiliar corner, and if we’re being honest with ourselves, we’ve all been there. Possessing the skill can be the difference between a non-event and running wide onto a shoulder, or worse, into the opposing lane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It's also a skill taught to motor cops.

 

[Jlq1969]

 

[Madhatter]

while leaned over on an ever smaller contact patch to much brake can cause a loss of traction ( a skid ) also.

 

[WJBertrand]

It’s a deft skill for sure which is a why you
must proportion your braking pressure according to lean angle. If you aren’t able to feel/sense the traction of the front tire then you may be safer finishing your braking before tipping in as the MSF teaches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Madhatter]

we agree...

 

[jeckyll]

Another advantage of trail braking into a corner is that with the forks partly compressed it helps to quicken the steering geometry making for easier turn-in and less likelihood of overshooting the corner via understeer. I don't see any issue at all braking into a corner on the road or the track, according to Eric however I don't know how to set my speed so don't listen to me!

I trail brake every bike from Tuono to KLR (with SuperT inbetween of course ).

Thinking of "track techniques" is a mistake. Riding a bike is riding a bike, good technique is good technique. You just don't push as far on the street, the physics don't change.

Nick Ienatsch, who wrote The Pace, also authored "Sport Riding Techniques" which is a great book and does a nice job on talking about braking in corners. Overall worth reading for anyone who rides on the street.

He also still has a column well worth reading: https://www.cycleworld.com/tags/ienatsch-tuesday/

 

[rfulcher]

Just to stretch this thread out a little bit longer.

The TCS on the Tenere will work leaned over to a limited degree. Two examples:
---When my 2013 was new one of my 1st rides o twisty roads was on a very cold day. When I was coming out of turns I would gradually increase throttle while leaned over and exiting the turn. The TCS light came on several times exiting the turn but still leaned. It became a bit of a game, a dumb game, but kind of fun.
---Last spring my new to me 2015 still had TKC80s. On a twisty road I was a bit concerned about pushing my luck with knobby tires so I was driving very smoothly and carefully. I would lean thru the turn [might even touch a peg down ] and accelerate out of the turn smoothly. On a number of turn exits while still leaned over the TCS light would flicker and the bike would slide/twitch a slight amount.
For both of these examples I suspect a heavy hand (dumping the throttle) would have been more than the TCS could compensate for and I would gone down.

I frequently trail brake into turns because the bike feels more stable and it is fun. Trail braking can be a gradual and easy or at the limits of control on a race track. If a rider can not trail brake then you can never over cook a turn or slow down mid turn and stay in your lane.

 

[jeckyll]

rfulcher: When I ride the bike hard, with tires that don't like being leaned over (like E07's) the TCS light is on after every hard corner. Well, probably during too, but I'm not usually looking down

Note that in tight corners I ride 'motard style' with the inside leg out, so I don't really care if the bike slides a bit underneath as generally it just squirms and no risk of high-side as I'm not hanging off the side.

Overall, I actually think the TCS on the SuperT works well, but I'm used to liter sportbikes with no traction control besides my right wrist But it won't save you from everything.

 

[bigbob]

When I ride the bike hard, with tires that don't like being leaned over (like E07's)

Humm. With E-07 Dakar I have scraped pegs on both sides on AZ666. How far do you have to lean? Not sure I can go much farther.

 

[jeckyll]

Humm. With E-07 Dakar I have scraped pegs on both sides on AZ666. How far do you have to lean? Not sure I can go much farther.

I've had three, you can lean them but you can lean them and "give er". I've had the old style E-07, old style E-07 Dakar, new style E-07+. Same thing every time. That tire can not take being cranked over and try to put down power.

I do push pretty hard.